Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IIRC, levels 6 to 8 of Planetary Weapons give you the two flavors of Smart Bombs:

1) Smart Bomb (RD) I-III: no resupply depots means that those of his ships w/o Quantum Reactors or Solar Collectors will eventually be dead in space, and

2) Smart Bomb (SP) I-III: no space ports means a big hit on his empire income, and those aren't normally very quick to rebuild http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Just a couple things that have worked against the TDM AIs that I usually play with.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I currently lack the ability to press the offense though ghetto-cloaking a shipyard ship and running it into the storm is a /very/ appealing option. I'll steal his star charts tonight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

First establish, by scouting trips, intel, or whatever, if any system of his has a storm that disables sensors (not combat sensors). Then send in a construction ship and build a construction base in that sector or system. After you build the base, scrap or mothball the ship immediately so that it consumes no more resources.

What level of sensors will a sensor-blocking storm prevent him from scanning? Does it stack with stealth armor? (I.E. Can I make a stealthed drydock?)

If this ghetto-cloaked construction base is in the same system as some of your enemies' worlds (a one-sector storm, as opposed to a system-wide storm), build a cargo-&-fighter-bay base and fill it with fighters and troops. Build these fighters for planetary attack. Build minor little troop transports and go start taking his most undefended planets, attacking with the fighters and dropping the troops. He will probably be unable, or at least find it difficult, to retake the planets and may glass them. This is not a loss for you, it is an intentional strategy of demoralization. If he does glass his own world, point this out to your role-playing friends, and point it out before you start using plagues.

This plan, while very complex and requiring a lot of finesse... appeals to me on levels I cannot express. I doubt he'd even think to check in the storm.
If the base is in a system-wide storm, or if you run out of targets in the system it is in, build harassment ships or fleets and go after similarly soft targets. Your main goal here is simply to harass. This will cause him to spend research time on sensor rather than weapons, and then it will pull warships away from his fronts.

Alternately, with domestic or imported harriers, you can attack targets of strategic value. If you can figure out which world have his Resupply Depots, hit those. This will severely limit the mobility of his troops. Mine the warp points within his sphere of control. Glass big worlds with high pop. Blockade his homeworld, glass it, or plague the damn thing.
The problem with resupply depots is that everyone has Stellar Harnessing 3 by now. Hell, I don't even build resupply depots anymore, I just have dedicated supply ships in all my fleets. I can handle constant fighting on the run for about .7 years before supplies force me to stop moving.

On plagues... if you need to wax this guy to survive, what does it matter what other players think. If you die because you don't plague him, or die because you plague him, wax him, and the others pound you, what difference does it make. Just make sure you are ready to move decisively after your plague attack: take his worlds, his resources, his power, and be ready to faces his new friends with their righteous anger.

One more thing, if you can get an AS harrier behind his lines, use it on non-combat ships as well as warships. Stealing the guys population transport could be lots of fun, especially if he blats it out of the sky when he can't get it back (see righteous role players).[/quote]
Yeah, I've been trying to think up a proper smear campain to launch on this guy. I run an "In-Character" newsletter with my own 'fair and balanced' journalism. So far they're biting nice and hard. I'll see if I can't make this work. Really, the minefields will be the problem point as getting a buildership past his fleet/minefield is the problem.

Once I get a single ship through... it's party time.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They don't stack: they do not add to eachother. I believe each storm will say what level of scanner is blocks.

But a stealthed construction base (stealthed by the storm, not armor) is the plan.

I believe that Storms offer bettwe cloaking than Stealth Armor. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If his options are set to animate ship movement, he may see your ships emerging from the storm. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should be able to check your reports and see exactly what was killing those ships.

A mine sweeper sweeps for mines when it moves into a sector. I do not know if it will uncloak as it does this.

If you ever steal a mine laying ship of his, imediately unload the mines. That would be nasty, and he would start making mine sweepers, which you could also steal.

You don't stop mines, you sweep them. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is exactly what I was talking about. Sorry I did not communicate that. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That sounds great.... War needs to be faught on that level as well.

Getting past the fleet takes Stealth Armor. Getting past the minefield takes a few Mine Sweeper Dreads that you shove through with or without cloaking. If you shove them through with your cloakesd ships, will the enemy see all of them, fight all of them, or just the uncloaked Mine Sweepers?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<snippage to save space, this is a reply to Loser>

Okay... so I can just shove the sweepers through eh? Hmm. And yeah, I was going to try and dump the mines on another warp point, but the ship never made it out of the sector. The reports say a battle happened, and his ships took no damage, but I got worked. I'm assuming that's because we're not using Gold so the attacker was going first. (Otherwise I would have gotten a shot off with its single MesonII.

Still, just dumping the mines sounds appealing too. I'll start doing that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess I'll try to shove some cloaked minesweeping destroyers through. I'm only up cruisers, myself. Still, though. A small fleet of minesweeping destroyers followed, the next turn, by my cloaked shipyard ship, etc seems to be the way to go. Hmm. I'll need to get BCs to do cloaked buildership.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Sorry, Cloaked minesweepers don't sweep, they eliminate the mines by hitting them at full speed. Enough ships clears the mineflied but the ships are destroyed, not the ship crews intention I guess. Better decloak first!

from FAQ:
5.9.9 Cloaked ships cannot sweep mines. (DavidG). [Editor’s note: I can confirm that problem with unknown minefields. Rumor has it (and there are references that hint at it in history.txt) that a cloaked minesweeper will uncloak to sweep a KNOWN minefield. I still haven't tested this one yet. May or may not work the same way. Has anyone tested a cloaked minesweeper on a known minefield?]

[ May 06, 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm.....
How many mines does an escort suck up when running through? How many does a fighter suck up?

*ponders evil, evil designs*

Will mines force cloaked ships to decloak? The big problem with sending minesweepers through is that it'd require me to fight off his fleet of 40+ ships which is /also/ parked there.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't fight off his ships, just write off yours.

[ May 06, 2003, 16:39: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't fight off his ships, just write off yours.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So minesweeping happens before the battle, then? That's interesting. Though I suppose the empire would be stupid to follow us into their own minefield. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A single meson bLaster, eh?
Even if you did fire first, you probably didn't get through his shields, (or missed) and the damage percentage only shows hull damage (shields completely regenerate after battle anyways)

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you have the space mount a colbalt warhead or two on the mine sweepers. Set their orders to "Ram". They will still die, but make it a gloryious death.

It may freak him out enough to set his fleet orders to maximum range (assuming that he is using optimal).

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oooo....

Yeah, that's nice.

It's always a good idea to have warhead researched to max.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not enough to really be useful, I think. You're better off using dedicated minesweeper ships.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cloaked ships will take full damage from mines, and cloaked minesweepers do not sweep mines. Mines ignore shields and do damage directly to the ship, starting with any armor they might have and then continuing until the ship is dead. Your best bet would probably be to make suicidal minesweepers (with tactics of "ram" and cobalt warheads as mentioned below) go through the WP uncloaked, but seperate from your main warfleet, at least if you want to avoid a straight-out fight. The minesweepers will die, which is regrettable, but if you're lucky, you'll have swept the mines away and cleared a path for your primary cloaked harassment fleet, as well as hopefully doing some damage to his fleet with your ramming minesweepers (don't count on that being very significant though, it would just be a nice bonus, if anything). Once your fleet has slipped through, you can start doing some serious damage. With any luck, you can get him to split his forces, maybe even making him think that you came around another way to attack. The more you make him spread out, the better it will be for you when you finally do invade in force.

Also, since your group seems to be heavy into the RP aspect, try to gain more allies, and maybe even slowly work at disrupting his alliances with others.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've been shaking hands and kissing babies from the get-go. The problem is there's 4 of us in this game, who know the game very well, and one other that knows politics very well. The 4 people who don't know the game so well (and one who does but has low self-esteem) have allied behind the politically savvy fellow to 'stop the veterans from killing us all.'

This union of underdogs occupies most of the board at this point and is making life very difficult. I have, (though simulator room screenings and other such techniques.) eroded a lot of the support from this one guy by pointing out certain facts about how the battles will be going when I finally get in his face.

I've tried everything I can think of, including offering to just fork over minerals, etc to recoup their losses from his trade agreement. They won't budge. They keep giving him weapons tech (which I then steal) and in general are making nuisances of themselves.

I may kill one or two of them as an example if they continue like this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A single meson bLaster, eh?
Even if you did fire first, you probably didn't get through his shields, (or missed) and the damage percentage only shows hull damage (shields completely regenerate after battle anyways)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shields? You presume much, good sir. My poorly educated foe doesn't make use of shields. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

I don't know, but I never got myself to order warships into ramming. I guess I'm a benevolent ruler that doesn't have the heart to sacrifice navy personel for the greater good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
For the "Kamikaze Minesweeper" I always use expensive Master Computers, thus crippling my economy.
At least in Proportions we get the cheaper Computer Pilot...... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NOW you're thinking like a Warlord!

Mind you, you will pretty much have to throw any political edge or maneuvres out the window if you go this route, but it looks as if politics is not being helpful enough anyhow...

Besides, if they're helping your enemy, they're hurting you...

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mines are "smart" enough to only attack enemy ships.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

a possibility to conduct some terror on him could be:

-research cloaking or stealth armor
-equip a minelayer with such a device
-sneak past his warp-pointlines in cloaked modus
-check his reeinforcement routes - the pathes he travels with his new produced ships from his space yards to his mainfleet
-mine them with the necessary amount of mines per sector

-boom ...the enemy battlecruiser sinks...

-go back and refill your minelayers
-repeat

the problem is that if he is clever he could send forward minesweepers to clear the reeinforcement path. But this costs him resources and time.

alles gute und viel Glück
KlausD

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

It looks like this is going to be a thread to remember. The 'big secret' dirty fighting tricks may not be coming out, but a lot of 'lesser' tricks sure are.

If you have the time, and you are not focusing on destroying that WP fleet of his, here is something to try.

First establish, by scouting trips, intel, or whatever, if any system of his has a storm that disables sensors (not combat sensors). Then send in a construction ship and build a construction base in that sector or system. After you build the base, scrap or mothball the ship immediately so that it consumes no more resources.

If this ghetto-cloaked construction base is in the same system as some of your enemies' worlds (a one-sector storm, as opposed to a system-wide storm), build a cargo-&-fighter-bay base and fill it with fighters and troops. Build these fighters for planetary attack. Build minor little troop transports and go start taking his most undefended planets, attacking with the fighters and dropping the troops. He will probably be unable, or at least find it difficult, to retake the planets and may glass them. This is not a loss for you, it is an intentional strategy of demoralization. If he does glass his own world, point this out to your role-playing friends, and point it out before you start using plagues.

If the base is in a system-wide storm, or if you run out of targets in the system it is in, build harassment ships or fleets and go after similarly soft targets. Your main goal here is simply to harass. This will cause him to spend research time on sensor rather than weapons, and then it will pull warships away from his fronts.

Alternately, with domestic or imported harriers, you can attack targets of strategic value. If you can figure out which world have his Resupply Depots, hit those. This will severely limit the mobility of his troops. Mine the warp points within his sphere of control. Glass big worlds with high pop. Blockade his homeworld, glass it, or plague the damn thing.

On plagues... if you need to wax this guy to survive, what does it matter what other players think. If you die because you don't plague him, or die because you plague him, wax him, and the others pound you, what difference does it make. Just make sure you are ready to move decisively after your plague attack: take his worlds, his resources, his power, and be ready to faces his new friends with their righteous anger.

One more thing, if you can get an AS harrier behind his lines, use it on non-combat ships as well as warships. Stealing the guys population transport could be lots of fun, especially if he blats it out of the sky when he can't get it back (see righteous role players).

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

You can find out what happened in a combat by pressing the "Combat Replay" button while looking at the Log's summary of a battle.

PvK

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Depends on how much damage the mines deal out and how much damage your ships can soak (i.e. a ship with a lot of heavy armor can take out more mines than, let's say, a lightly armored escort). Not too sure how mine damage applies to units though...

I have seen a couple of times where the damage seems to "stack" a bit (the total mine damage added up and the total fleet damage resistance added up, and whomever has more has stuff left in the end), and i'll lose a portion of my fleet to an unknown minefield, but i'll have a surviving ship that has less damage done to it than a normal mine would have...but then again, I simply might have miscalculated the ship's damage.

Just a thought, or two... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

It is possible to use 1 fighter to expend 1 mine, provided you send 1 fighter at a time.
Just try that in PBW (simultaneous mode). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If fighters are cheaper than mines I'll do it. =^.^=

Seriously though, I think a set of 10 destroyers with 5 MinesweeperIIs should be sufficient. The maximum minefield size is 100 mines, yes?

[ May 07, 2003, 18:15: Message edited by: Pooka ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Yes the max is 100 mines.
Unless your playing an older Version and know the exploit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Light Cruisers (LC) should be cheaper than destroyers.
You should research LCs because the Large Weapon Mount makes them more effective.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe the mines troubling our new friend are on the other side of a warp point, anyway. Fighters can't go through warp points, I don't believe.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Fighters can warp. You just need to select the fighter group (make sure it have less than 100 fighters) then press ctrl, alt and delete before giving the warp order.

.

.

[ May 07, 2003, 19:48: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cute. I'm tempted to suggest that you've been reading http://www.bash.org

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Come on, but I did make you laugh, didn't I? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And I was reading something else....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Do you like Tatu?

http://www.tatugirls.com/images/teamtatu.jpg

.
http://www.tatugirls.com/gallery/images/tatu05.jpg

[ May 07, 2003, 20:32: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

what, like this one? (bash.org, sorry didn't notice the new post, two Posts down)

#33677 +(-4)- [X]

Warman89: It's the best game evr.
Meamperson: Which one?
Warman89: Warcraft u idiot!
Meamperson: For the end world spell, press Ctrl+Alt+Delete twice.

Funny, i've tried so many times, it never seems to work . . . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

edit:
There was a brief cosmic irony surge just now, seeing as 30 seconds after I read that, my roommate asks me to help him fix a little problem . . . he got one of those "find this system file, it is a virus, delete it and empty the recycle bin" things, and FOLLOWED IT. Fortunately the next email said it was a hoax, so he told me and I was able to replace it with the same file from my HD. actually it was just the Java debug manager, so it wasn't too terribly crucial, but still. Very ironic.

[ May 07, 2003, 20:42: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My boss did that too, then wrote the name of the file down and went around checking the other computers for it (they all had it, of course).

Telling him "That's a hoax" was one of those priceless moments.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Hey Pooka... you know if your opponent and his allies get wind of the fact that you have an entire forum backing you up here...

Naah, your opponent already has all those allies IN GAME, who would HE be calling a baby http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Well there is nothing wrong with getting a little out-of-game advice when you are still relatively new....esp. when your opponent is getting massive amounts of in-game assistance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Just a thought...

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's true, he could call me all sorts of things. But if I(3 systems, 12 planets) beat him (14systems, 30+ planets) and he makes a fuss about it my reply is simple:

"Just because I used every asset at my disposal to defeat you, and you foolishly didn't employ all of your assets, does NOT give you the right to whine like the little ***** I turned you into."

Or, to quote my friend:

"If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough."

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wouldn't know, since I have SE4 non-Gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif , but is the exploit
1) laying 99 mines, then
2) laying as many mines as possible?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

The other mine exploit (well, more of a tactic than an exploit IMO) is for player one to lay a huge stack of mines at a location, then gift the minesweeper to player 2 who then lays a bunch more. Assuming player three is at war with both players 1 & 2, the mine-per-sector limit has been effectively doubled.

And of course you can do this as many times as you have allies...

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I knew this thread was missing something, and now I know what it was: off-topic little Russian kissing-girls.

They're little girls. They're Russian. They're peddling the appearance of juvenile promiscuity. They kiss each other. Their music is currently tolerable (but could easily be over played, even more easily than No Doubt). What's not to like?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Hey, you're playing a non-gold game right? so who is at the top of the turn ladder? 'Cause if it isn't a gold game, then Warp Point camping isn't going to do you any good:

If he is higher in the game turn order, then when he comes through the warp point, he will get first shot on you = you die (sorry, nice knowning you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

If you are higher on the game turn ladder, then when you go through the warp point you will get first shot.

Then the only advantage to letting him come to you is that he'll run into your mines. conversely the only thing holding you back from attacking him is that you'll need to build a bunch of minesweepers.

hope that clairifies things. I just think it would be a shame for you to build up and camp on your side of the warp point only to have him come through and get the first shot... better you sit back one space from the warp point, let him come through and then engage him in combat. Besides, if you back away you may be able to coax him into your minefield before he has sufficient minesweepers ready http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Hey... you don't have warp openers do you?

I bet he'd NEVER expect that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Of course they're fairly expensive to research and build, so if you don't already have a lot of research points it's probably not worth bothering with, but it's a thought...

Also remember that there can only be 1 warp point between 2 systems, so if you're in Utekra and he's across the warp point in Wertuy you can't open a warp from Utekra to Wertuy... but you could open a warp from one of your other systems to Wertuy, or open a warp from one of your systems to his unguarded inner systems (if you have warp openers of the appropriate range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've got Stellar Manip 1. Pondering going to 2 but weapons tech seems more important just yet. I might be able to get SM3 from someone else though. It may be worth trying.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I'm in front of him on the turn list. I'm above him on the list displayed when you login. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Hmmmm.... In gold, it appears the aggressor appears to have a chance of shooting first. I just posted this in the thread "who shoots first?" a few days ago.

============================================

It gets wierder.

Did some testing.

I had the enemy sit on the other side of the WP.

My ships were faster 13 vs 12.

On the next turn, my ships shot first.

Tested this a number of times and my ships always shot first.

Messed around and added some 12 movement ships to the fleet.

They shot first.

Went back to 13 movement ships and they shot first.

I suspect the defendor normally shoots first when sitting on the WP, but a random element sometimes gives the aggressor the right to shoot first when they are faster.

==========================================

The test was done in simultaneous mode.

I am making the assumption that a faster fleet may give them the right of shooting first at times.

Maybe if I tried a large number of tests, I would have an example of a equal speed fleet or slower fleet coming through a WP would shoot first.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Ok, that's a relief. I hadn't read your position on the ladder in the description(s) you gave.

In that case, satelites should do you quite well, as should fighters. For the fighters you definitely want the heavy weapons, cause if you've got first shot at point blank range, you'll absolutely waste him Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhahaahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaha
hahahahahahahah
hahahaha
(etc...)

Somebody else suggested it, but make sure you get those sensors up a few levels. It'll make a huge difference. Oh, and as to the discussion of the armors and cloaking; the 5% bonus to defence is not cummulative though. If you have one or twenty of the stealth armor on your ship, you'll still only get a 5% defence bonus (don't get me wrong, the 5% is definitely worth it though!). You'll want to put both the stealth (5%) and the other special armor (5%) on your ships. Just think - if he comes through the warp point you'll get first shot and destroy a chunk of his fleet, then he'll miss with ~10% of the shots he's got left.

[ May 09, 2003, 15:48: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">About emissive armor, does it really mean that fighters using SmallDU3s can't hurt my ship? (They do less than the prevented damage.)

Does that mean that his group of 242 small fighters won't be able to hurt ships with that armor? (evil ideas brewing here)

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A single fighter would not be able to do any damage. However fighter stacks in SEIV add their damage together. So think of it as a ship with a big gun that does 242 times the damage of one single fighter. That will probably be enough to get past the emmisive armor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A single fighter would not be able to do any damage. However fighter stacks in SEIV add their damage together. So think of it as a ship with a big gun that does 242 times the damage of one single fighter. That will probably be enough to get past the emmisive armor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That makes Emissive armor seem utterly pointless considering it's size, resistance, and a damage threshold of /10/ to start. 10?! Is there a gun that does as little as 10?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

"That makes Emissive armor seem utterly pointless considering it's size, resistance, and a damage threshold of /10/ to start. 10?! Is there a gun that does as little as 10? "

No. But it -will- cut 10 points of damage off of every hit.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

A gun that does as little as 10... hmm, you're right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously though, in Gold it's somewhat better, since the emissive rating is actually subtracted from the damage if the damage is greater - so if you get hit by a 280 HP Heavy Mount Wave Motion Gun you only take 270 damage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

But the emissive doesn't stack does it? Logically you should get more protection the more emissive armor you've got, but there needs to be an upper limit... which would be hard to introduce to the game.

Mmmmm, on second thought, maybe it would be good to have emissive armor effects stack, but then limit the number of this type of armor to (for example) 5 per ship. = subtract 50 off all incoming damage.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yet again, I blame the confusing wording on the component "ignores all damage of 10 or less." does not mean the same thing as "subtracts 10 from inbound damage."

Grrrr.

I like emissive armor now, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just how many research points do you have? If you have enough, you really should consider upgrading your defenses.
For example:
Level 1 ECM (20%) +
Level 1 Scattering Armor (5%) +
Level 1 Stealth Armor (5%) +
Level 1 Emmisive Armor (10 or less) =
30% defense bonus,
-10 damage from all hits.

Au contraire:
Level 3 ECM (60%) +
Level 3 Scattering Armor (15%) +
Level 3 Stealth Armor (15%) +
Level 3 Emissive Armor (30 or less) =
90% defense bonus
-30 damage from all hits

In summa: Top-level ECM & Armor will give you an additional 60% defensive bonus, and subtract triple the damage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

See that 90% defensive bonus? If you put Level Three Scattering, Stealth, and ECM on any ship that has a natural 10% or more defensive bonus, and assuming your enemy doesn't use Combat Sensors, Torpedos, Wave-Motion Guns, or Talismans, that ship will be ***Impossible*** to hit with direct Fire weapons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ...all you'd have to worry about is Missiles.

And if you think it couldn't get any better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif , Upgrading all of that takes research in only two Tech Areas: Armor, and Combat Support.