Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When you get done with it, PLEASE post your observations here. Whatever you find - bugs, strategies, suggestions, complaints, praises - post it so I can improve the Mod. Thanks.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Thank you, General.

Have you confirmed that the Point Defense, Medical Bays and Mine Sweepers actually function on Units?

What about Phased Shields, Solar Panels, Quantum Reactors, Regenerating Armor, single-weapon To-Hit bonus (ala WMG) and all forms of Special Damage (Engine, Shield, Armor, Master Computer, Weapon, Weapon rate delay, Allegiance Subverter, and Shield/Armor skipping)?

Were you able to try any of those? Does the Highliner Mod implement any of those special features?

[edit: I forgot that Units don't use experience. Didn't need to ask about Neural Networks.]

[ June 23, 2003, 15:33: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Results so far are mixed.

I haven't had any mine combats yet, so the sweepers are still an unknown factor. Same thing with medical facilities & plagues.

Unit combat is much more "hidden" than ship combat (shields & damage are computed out-of-sight, as it were), so the effects of regenerating armor & shields, special weapons, etc, are difficult to ascertain.

For purposes of game scale and mechanics, I kept Quantum Reactors and Solar Panels as strictly Highliner/Ship components - so I don't know if they would work on units. I could experiment with them, but even if they did work I would not put them on units because I don't think it fits the parameters of space travel I had in mind for this mod.

Weapon Rate Delay and Allegence converters both work on units - that's confirmed.

More results to come as the test games proceed.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Since Units do not respond to damage, at all, until their entire structure has been destroyed any sort of X only Weapon would be almost completely ineffective against other Units.

I forgot to mention Plagues, Radiation, and Smart Weapons in the X only Weapon list. But since it's targeting something other than a Rider I think it would work. The same should be true for other X only Weapons: they could be used against Highliners, but not other Rider.

As I understand it, both Armor and Shields on a Unit just add to its total Hit Points (kilotons). The only difference is that you get an little animation when you hit Shields.

Perhaps regeneration would still work, though. It could be tested, as well. Design a Rider with enough regenerating Armor to 'soak' 5 kt of damage per round and a weapon that only does 1 kt of damage. Switch over to another empire and there design a Rider of roughly equal Hit Points with a weapon that does 5 kt of damage. Run a simulation between them and see who wins.

Another thought. While Shield-skipping weapons could still destroy all the Hit Points of a Unit, I don't think Armor-skipping weapons could. Since the Armor-skipping weapon does not hit Armor it will never destroy the whole Unit.

Weapon rate delay works when fired from a Unit at a Ship, I think, but does it work against other Units?

I seem to recall (perhaps from this very thread) that Allegiance Converters will work from a Unit against a Ship, but I don't think they work against other Units. There's your Boarding Party, but there is not way to Security Station against it. I think this would be an unbalancing element, since any Highliner could be easily lost to a stack of Boarding Riders (but it's your mod, of course).

I think I see what you mean about the Supply-related components. Since they're not traveling between systems, anyway, I don't suppose the Riders will have great need of endless Supplies. Or perhaps, for that very reason, they should have more limited Supplies, much like Fighters.

[ June 23, 2003, 21:44: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is true in the abstract. But the way I modded the weapons, most weapons can hit any target, so while they may be more effective against one or the other, they will work on all to some degree, and it's simply a matter of designing Riders that are optimized to specific tasks. Not that I didn't make some weapons effective only against one type of ship or the other - but you'll have to play the Mod to find out which... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, this hasn't yet occured in the test games, but I don't see any reason why anti-planet weapons won't work from Riders.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm in the middle of just such a task right now.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is something to keen an eye on for later revisions, but I'm trying to stick with more basic questions at these early stages. Such as...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Definitely. That's already been determined in my alpha tests.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This was something else I gave a pass on, using "mod scale" as my out. Allegence Converters can only be mounted on Highliners and Bases.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, the "intended scale" factor comes in. Highliners have the size and complexity to handle long-term space environments for their crew - Riders do not. Thus I envisioned Riders as short-range (and short-duration) ships, and jacked up the supply cost per turn.

My biggest fear (in actual playtesting by people) is that some joker would create googobs of Riders and park them in the orbit above his planets, thus sidestepping the cargo-on-planet limitations. That's another reason why I made the supply-cost-per-turn for Riders/"fighters" so high. They'll have to come down to resupply sometime, somewhere, or you lose them. This way, it's sooner rather than later, and it'll make it that much harder to pull off a stunt like this.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Thank you.

"Riders", yes.... I think I'll go back and correct my terminology in my Last post. "Unit-Ships"? I was really reaching there.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

I would very much like to try this mod, but my problem is this (and I searched the forums for an answer but to no avail): How do you combine Mods? I have tried before but had no luck. Maybe a step-by-step answer could be posted to the FAQ as combining mods seems to be a fairly common thing.

Thanks,
Mathias Ice

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I assume you're talking about the Image and Neo-standard Mods I reference, right?

If so, no problem. These "mods" are just large Groups of new images for components, facilities, ships, etc. My mod is entirely datafiles (the only images I include that overwrite existing ones are the intro screens; my extra ship images load into a separate folder). It shouldn't even matter what order you load them in. Just 1) load SEIV off the disc into a new folder; 2) update it to 1.84; then 3) load the Image modpacks, the Neo-Standard ship pack, and my Mod in whatever order. You should then be good to go.

Combining my mod with other mods with major data changes (Proportions, AIC, etc.) is not possible - but that goes for trying to combine any mods of this type. You'd have to go through the data files for *both* mods and reconcile the differences, tweak the AIs to handle them, ad infinitum ad nauseam - and then you'd have a third (and entirely different) mod (not to mention questions about infringement of intellectual property). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

EDIT - Clarified loading instructions

[ June 24, 2003, 01:42: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Armor skipping weapons go back and hit armor once everything else is gone on ships. Don't know about units though.

[ June 24, 2003, 00:15: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Units do not have an "armor" layer. Armor components on a unit simply add to the HP total, nothing more. Armor skipping weapons do not skip armor on a unit, as there is no "armor" to skip. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So regenerating armor on a unit would essentially be "regenerating HPs", at least for the HPs contributed by the armor - assuming that it even works in units (which is a dangerous assumption in SEIV as I've found...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

How'd that test come out?

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm still going through the simulator to find out how/if shield regenerators and special armors work. It's not as easy to track as you might think (even with only 2 Riders designed just for that particular combat scenario).

On the brighter side, one thing I have found out that works in units are planetary bombardment weapons. One Omega Rider (500ktons) armed with 10 Plasma Bomb Vs depopulated a homeworld in one salvo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay I'll give that a shot, I didn't know you had to install a second SEIV install, I was hoping I could just copy two (or more) of the type of mods you are referring to into one folder and pick that mod from the Mod Picker program. I tried my method with TDM and FQM and it didn't work. So, not to sound like an idiot, but you are saying I need to make a second full install of SEIV, correct?

[ June 24, 2003, 05:32: Message edited by: Mathias_Ice ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

i think some-one could do a cat-in-a-hat with the armor-skipping rounds and non-armor hps, but i've got a slight headache and i'm tired.

*hah! your tired! try eighteen*

*annoying eighteen-wheeler*

does anybody know what you call a pickup-truck with eighteen pigs in the back?

[ June 24, 2003, 07:02: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Mathias Ice, the Neo-standard does not require you to install anything special. All that that means is that if you use a ship set that has extra images in it, they will be used in-game in the Highliner mod.

For the Image Mod, you can (and should) install it into the default Pictures folder.

You do not need to have a second install of SE4.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am 90% certain that none of them work on units.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, this is true. I was thinking of the way I run SEIV in my computer (I have separate installs for PBW, Highliner, and the game I play and tweak for my own use). I have a 30 GB harddrive and am only using 5 so far, so space is not an issue for me - and I don't have to worry about that "shifting mods" nonsense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're probably right. I'll more than likely trim them from the Unit tech tree completely next iteration. But wait... don't some of the racial tech traits have special unit armor?

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">DONKEY - So, are there any mice up there?

SHREK - Well, there's Narf, The Small... and Annoying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're probably right. I'll more than likely trim them from the Unit tech tree completely next iteration. But wait... don't some of the racial tech traits have special unit armor?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">None of them do. The only special armor for fighters/troops is Small Emissive Armor, but I do not think it actually has the emissive ability, or that it works. It just has more hp/kT than standard armor.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It *does* have the emissive ability listed in its component entry. If it doesn't work, it should have been "patched" out of existence...

Well, now I know what to do for 1.02 then. (Trudges off grumbling to the datafile saltmines...)

[ June 25, 2003, 00:46: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Well, once the grunt work of the mod is done, it's heartwarming to see how quickly fixes and patches can be done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I've removed (grumble, grumble) units' special shields and armor from 1.02. I've also done some other fixes, some to the AI files, and some just for cosmetic purposes.

Now, I have a question for you veteran modders out there. My next project is running a large batch of large games (8-10 AI's each) to see which of my AIs have adapted to the new environment the best. I will use this data to tweak the other AIs. My question for you vets is, should I wait until I get my AIs whipped into shape and then do a major re-release, or just do incremental releases as changes come in (like 1.02 as it stands now)?

[ June 25, 2003, 01:51: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

umpbay

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

That is a matter of style, really. There is no right or wrong way to go about it.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

HIGHLINER MOD VERSION 1.02

This mod makes major changes to the ship construction and colonization mechanics of the game. See the Readme below for the basic information on the background, requirements to run this mod, and more...

Readme 1.02

Mod release 1.02 History:
- TechArea file - Stellar Harnessing reduced from 6 to 3 levels (no components exist for levels 4-6)
- Fixed bug in Research datafiles in Neutral Empires (Tech Area Min % Organics Extraction - entry missing)
- Components file: special weapons and armor for units removed; some weapon techs renamed for consistency; and some inconsistenciesin Roman Numeral/Family Groups for some Rider Weapons and Facilities resolved

If you have any suggestions, complaints, comments or kudos, please post them in the Highliner Mod thread in the SEIV Forums here.

Download Highliner Mod 1.02 now!

======================================

Note that this also marks the debut of Efrafa Sector, the homepage for the Highliner Mod and more...

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~woundwrt/index.html

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Sorry, one Last patch (1.03) to update the Mod. This is just three datafiles that were changed, and the updated readme.

Highliner Mod Patch 1.03

[ June 30, 2003, 00:29: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Edit: Request: Could you make a different Version of the mod for people who doesn't want to overwrite the original Se4?

[ July 01, 2003, 23:45: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean a mod Version for pre-Gold?

(gulp) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I, uh, hadn't thought of that. Lately, I've been focused on whipping the current Version into shape for a PBW run. I'll have to go back and do a dry run with pre-Gold files to see if there's anything that would mess up the mod.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean a mod Version for pre-Gold?

(gulp) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I, uh, hadn't thought of that. Lately, I've been focused on whipping the current Version into shape for a PBW run. I'll have to go back and do a dry run with pre-Gold files to see if there's anything that would mess up the mod.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm, No, that's not what I meant.
I meant, is it possible for you to create a zip file with everything in it so that people could play the Highliner Mod without having to overwrite their se4 gold files.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahhh, that's what you meant.

Well, that's easy. Create a folder called "Highliner_Mod" within your main SEIV directory. Unzip my Mod files into it (and add the Image Mod and Neostandard pics to those folders as well). Then go to the "Path" textfile in your main folder and change the line...

Using Mod Directory := None

to read...

Using Mod Directory := Highliner_Mod

That should do the trick.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Alright. Thanks.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

1.04 is out - and this will be the Last iteration for awhile (until some external playtests come in). Check out Efrafa Sector (link in my sig) for the download. Also, check the new thread (WANTED - Guinea Pigs) for an important announcement.

[ July 02, 2003, 22:56: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

I believe he wanted you to make the zip file extract to the Highliner Mod folder by default. It should not be overwriting the SE4 files by default. This is common courtesy, and is how most mods are released.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, these are those mods that you want to install in the default SE4 folders, not in any mod folders. The whole point of these is to be a standard used by many mods. Installing them in particular mod folders is a waste of HD space and requires needless duplication. They do not replace any default images, just add new ones.

[ July 02, 2003, 23:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EDIT - I finally got what you guys were getting at. OK. Zip up the files already contained in a "mod" folder. Mea culpa.

EDIT - OK, the zipfile and website are updated and in-line with the standard.

[ July 02, 2003, 23:47: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

There is a lot of junk (and I mean a lot) in the HTML of your web site. What did you use to make it?

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Considering some of the stuff in the code, he used Microsoft Word:
From source of http://galileo.spaceports.com/~woundwrt/index.html
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&lt;meta name=Generator content=&quot;Microsoft Word 9&quot;&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's one of the easier ways to make a web page quickly if you don't want to learn HTML, but it has some rather severe drawbacks.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Ugh. The way things are going tonight, maybe I should sign everything over to a third party and go back to Atari 2600... http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-067.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Don't do that! I could clean up the html for ya in a jiffy if you want. Email the html (and only html) files to me all zipped up if you want me to.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

For those who are interested, the PBW game for Highliner is up and ready for sign-ins. Go to the PBW website and look up "Highliner Mod Shakedown" for the details.

This game will use Version 1.04, available at Efrafa Sector (see link in my sig).

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

How do you intend to get the AI to launch Riders in the system map?

Right now I don't think the AI does anything with fighters strategically.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Improving the AI is my next big step (Step 1 was getting the thing to work in principle). I've been tweaking the AI files at home as I go along, improving the AI's expansion, economy, and combat. I will note this down too and see what I can do about it.

Does anyone else out there (say, those who have worked with TDM) know how this (fighters in strategic combat) is done? Would Ultimate Strategies Mod handle this sort of thing?

[ July 10, 2003, 01:51: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

I've redone the zipfile (see my website linked in my sig) so that it should - FINALLY - run properly. I mean it! I swear! http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/...smiley-025.gif

My apologies to anyone who was inconvenienced or annoyed as I worked this out. I hope this hasn't put you off from trying this Mod - I like the concept, and would really like folks to play it and offer suggestions for improvements.

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

A naming error with the Imagemod will cause the main picture for the Value Improvement Plant not show up properly, and give you an error.

To Fyron, Sj, and others: Facilities pics 242-249 has a 0 attached to the pic numbers, causing errors. Please correct this error.

And it would be much appreciated if you would include the RaceGeneric picture folder, rather than having players copy and paste it in.

Edit: Other than those, Superb work. I'm going to start myself a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ August 05, 2003, 05:23: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't do that because I was/am not too happy with the quality of those things (my own modified Highliner pics), and just wanted to include them to inspire others who actually have artistic talent to work up something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

Player feedback is starting to come in (and there was much rejoicing (yeaaaah, yeaaaaah)), and I wanted to address the issues up front. So...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

bizarre... that is not my quote and what i wrote is not here at all... and i know i posted it ...

well i will dig it out of pbw

1. Like how you have 1000 kt down pact on designs. Very well thought out.

2. Storage is a little low for the scope of the beginning of the game. Perhaps 3x the size of intitial cargo ??

hmmm i wonder where my post went from here eariler

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

slow eh... due to the scale of economics research will be slowed down

Was that an intention ???

Yea slow... but in proportions you at least have some storage and a strong home world... here you do not.

P.S.

why not a 900 KT space yard ??

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's why I set the research cost to "low" for the game. My basic intention for Highliner to make the game dependent on large interstellar ships. That, of course, leads to the cascade effects mentioned (slower colonization, tech research, etc) - not to mention the changes to combat...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But here you still have (once you get there) the opportunity to build worlds up at the usual SEIV rate, and don't have to be shackled to your homeworld so closely once that occurs. Just imagine a Highliner/Proportions combo mod... that would take about as long to play as actual interstellar travel would in RL... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll look into it.

P.S. I may have mixed up portions of your reply and Ed's in my first post. My apologies for the confusion.

[ August 28, 2003, 01:06: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod - 1.04b - PBW Observations & Patch
 

A problem occurred in the PBW game which required a re-do of some data files. This allowed me to also correct the two major outstanding issues brought up in the thread here. I have created a patch (1.04b) and e-mailed it out to the PBW players. For anyone else interested, here is the patch...

Highliner Mod Patch 1.04a to 1.04b

I'll get around to posting this on my website soon.