Re: MBT's
 

I'm so pissed right now!!!

I'm going to be REAL brief right now as I've spent hours again in trying to answer the question.

First I can't emphasize how many references I've looked at over the last 24+hrs.

The bottom-line is I come up with the same answer "over and over again"

Breath!

Night Vision/Early batches
TO1-KO1 Buran-PA with TPN-4-49-23 passive/active II (target id range 1.2/1.5 km)
Those distances are limited by lighting conditions as stated in ref. 1. Which "ambient" "twilight" or "skylight" before Sunrise and after Sunset. And not in the "Dark of Night", leaving you, depending where you are at on the planet and the time of year, from <1hr. to ~1.5hrs. before or after the celestial event has occurred on average. Read the end of first para and "Basic Characteristics" Line Item #6 from Ref. 1.
https://issuu.com/ufobject/docs/russ...ons_catalog/91
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/

Commander Sight:[/b] Is a 1st GEN TI limited to the distances highlighted below. From Ref. 1 and all that have been posted or not.
PNK-4S complex includes TKN-4S Agat-S day/night sight (target id range 800 m (day)/700 (night)
https://issuu.com/ufobject/docs/russ...2rmor.kiev.ua/
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/

I "split" the difference between the two distances from the Commanders Sight (750m) to get the TI 15 distance.

Of the advantages the T-80U had over the T-90 was in the FCS & VISION, remember all these and other refs. make it clear the T-90 only used certain parts of the T-80U FCS. They als state for the most part excepting VISION the T-80U FCS was on par with the LEOPARD 2 of the time.

I cannot in "good conscience" and in keeping with the current game TI/GSR stats, see the T-90 having TI/GSR of more then 25-30.

The equipment just does not support it.

To be brutely honest I'll quote Ruger Hauer from the end of "Blade Runner-Tears in the Rain"...“I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”

That line holds true during this evolution it would turn our world "upside down" when it comes to VISION for the earlier years the 1st and some 2nd GEN sights were available.

I will say this much since this was the focus of the this evolution, the West had the advantage in VISION, FCS and to some degree REALIBILITY of their Tanks. The East had more powerful MG's and as it would turn out "better" ammo then we thought at the time, also to some degree they were also "better" PROTECTED as well.
Another one:
https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot...80-gambol.html

I'm spent. Lost everything looking for another Ref. earlier. And darn after losing last night. but, having a bonus evening off with CINCLANTHOME because of the range this morning, consider me "Out to, well, Dinner for the rest of the night."

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The magic number for thermal imaging in the game is 40 - anything less and the thing cannot see through smoke. So if it is a thermal sight, it is at least 40.

Re: MBT's
 

Andy,
I was starting to wonder about a game limitation issue about the TI/GSR VISION. I would then in this case(s) rather see the T-90 with TI/GSR 40 then say VISION 30.

This simply because it penalizes the "UNIT" with Thermal Sights regardless of "TYPE" and more importantly for me, is simply the game does such an excellent job in simulating LOS.

I can "stand down" on the issue and I have a better understanding of the game parameters dealing with TI/GSR.

I would be curious for a very simple explanation of where you or Don feel the upper limit is with Aided (IR and related.) non TI VISION is for MBT's for my own edification.

And before someone says something, when Andy (Which this is rare.) or Don, calls I tend to answer the call.

Besides I just enjoyed watching "Charlie Brown-The Great Pumpkin" (As an update, that B**T**D "The Red Baron" shot Snoopy down again!!) and "The Toy Story-Scary Halloween" life is now complete.

Though it was 90 degrees inside that range, my record remains intact, I really like my Beretta. :D

Now for shower to remove the "lead"!?! ;)

Andy thanks for taking the time.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

As Don said, the magic number for TI in WinSPMBT is 40, nothing less.

We'd like to see shorter range options but this isn't going to happen because it would REQUIRE a special "TI" toggle to differentiate between TI and normal night vision. Right now the code looks something like "Is vision => 40, if yes then TI, if no then normal night vision".

Since I've never seen the game code I can't be 100% sure of this, but as a programmer that's certainly the "simple" solution I'd use. Andy can correct me if I'm wrong (and he's in the mood).

Re: MBT's
 

As I said above - the code uses the magic number of 40 or more to be thermal or radar and so it sees through smoke. There is no qualifier to the vision number for IR, white light, LLTV, image intensifier, thermals, or radar Otherwise that would be available in Mobhack). Just the one hard baked number.

Re: MBT's
 

First good to see the site back up!! I had a hard typing out those last 2 or 3 posts. It kept hanging up on me. I do see on my screen the Post Icons list has been changed and it seems, expanded. Anyway...

Secondly and again, thank you Andy. In asking the question about IR etc. and not being a software programming type, I just didn't know how deep into the code the other electronic factors dealing with VISION are written into it.

Totally clear to me after your second post to me.

Thank You!

Regards,
Pat

Re: MBT's
 

Note that there are no headlights either - you can drive your 200MPH supercar at full blast lights out down a windy forest dirt track with no problems in the pitch dark in the SP universe, it has some weird physics:D

Edit to add - and you can hang a 90 degree turn at 200MPH, suddenly come across Farmer Giles on his pony and trap and stop without turning them into pate as well...

For those who have to rationalise, maybe just think of a daylight turn as 5 "administrative minutes" rather than a minute or so (to allow for real life units not all moving in synch, all the hurry up and wait amd "4 Alpha, this is 3 bravo, say again all after.. ".

And any night move (vis under 10) - count that as say 15 administrative minutes to add to your campaign time clock.

After all - I could programme in a 50% move deduction for visibility less than 500 yards, but most players would say "to heck with all that" and edit the start map selection to vision >10 and never play "night rules" battles (most probably already avoid such anyway I'll bet).

Re: MBT's
 

^And grunts with amazing physical condition. I mean, they can theoretically move at a steady 18 kms/h (if always on road) for approx. 14 kms and fight just as well as if they were fully fresh. :D

Don't get me wrong, I still love the game. But you do have to use your imagination and don't take everything as literal.

Re: MBT's
 

A little restless right now, so I as I just posted on the KH-15 in the Problems w/ the Russian OOB, I figured before I lay back down let me look at the "Main Battle tank section. So one last time the T-90 MBT presented in 3 different versions. As you "click" on those different versions you'll see note changes for the engine, night vision and remarks sections of the chart.

As pointed out in the last patch submissions, some countries did update their T-90S tanks and were supported by the refs. submitted.

Sorry I forgot about this site, they're actually pretty good at what they do for what you can actually click on and see stats for.
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsyste...0-%20T-90.html

I noticed in the other thread it seems we're "double clicking" on the "Edit" button again.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

How come do I see RC4 has posted something (Community Forum/The Camo Workshop and WinSPMBT sections.) in this thread but, there's no post shown in TO&Es or when I open the Thread???

Am I having a :doh: moment, as I've NEVER seen this before?

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

THIS WAS FOR THE JETS THREAD. SOMETHING IS APPARENTLY UP WITH THE SITE AGAIN AS I RECIEVED A MESSAGE FROM MS THAT THE SITE WAS EXPRIENCING TECHNICAL ISSUES THAT SHRAPNEL IS AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM WHEN TRYING TO POST THIS IN THAT THREAD. WHEN TRYING TO REPOST IT, I RECIEVED A MESSAGE THAT "THE POST WAS A DUPLICATE OF ONE I POSTED WITHIN THE LAST FIVE MINUTES" but THERE'S NO POST IN THE JETS THREAD.

Re: MBT's
 

Yes I get that as well and I have alerted Shrapnel they may have a problem

Re: MBT's
 

We are testing the forums.

Re: MBT's
 

While looking for an answer concerning the VCI T-20 (So far Crew 3/Carry 6/8 4x4/6x6 (One source indicating they carried a Sniper Team. Also Global Security is reporting it with a 25mm turret.)) in the French OOB Thread, I came across this multi-sourced document that might be of some interest to the Forum. Acknowledgements are on the last past page to include JANE's and other well respected sources. This was a industry prepared document in preparation of a Defense Industry Show.

List is by country, region and or continent.
http://rfventures.co/wp-content/uplo...d-vehicles.pdf

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Post Script: The above mentioned 25mm turret is for the VBCI/VCI sub unit. Para 7 & 8 is where this is detailed and more.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...led-apc-04100/

Now I'm done.

Pat

Re: MBT's
 

A little change of pace but, something I think for the time period involved, it would've been fun to have a handful of these running around our "game board" so with that I leave you with a little light reading on one of those "what ifs" that never made it.

The French ELC EVEN Twin 30mm and 90mm Tank Destroyer.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/elc-even/

Pic:
Well I can't seem to get the picture to show up here, though it copied into "My Pictures" perfectly fine. But I really like the ELC EVEN 90mm picture in the ref. as compared to the Citroen 2CV.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well I reported on the Russian T-90M/T-90MS (Export) about 3yrs. ago or more. The T-90MS was the first to see service in I believe Kazakhstan.

One of the first sightings while still on trials of the T-90M was in late 2017/or early 2018 (Which I posted on.) and the tank (UNIT 059) has a start date of 10/2018 which by my best estimate at this time should be 10/2020 or 01/2021.

Why haven't I brought this up sooner? Well I believe I have by simply stating along the lines of "it was to early" and quite frankly, I didn't have enough information to do any "good" tread analysis to recommend a change concerning the date. I think, I now do.

I think Don generally feels the same as I do about chasing "START" dates for equipment in the game. Though the issues that have plagued the following and others we had no control over, and there are still plenty of them for each of these tanks that are still ongoing, all we can do is react, correct and keep our fingers crossed.

So again here appear the ALTAY, ARJUN Mk 2 and ARMATA (T-14). I'm not seeing ANY news on these tanks "directly" not even anything closely to what I'm posting below for the T-90M even for months. This situation is causing me to "stick to my guns" that none of the above with possibly the exception of the ALTAY will reach FOC before 06/2023.

I'd rather given the choice from just even a psychological POV, that it's like being in the desert and seeing an oasis that you never seem to reach, I'd rather move it back in time, knowing I have already drank the water before moving on. If you follow me. Maybe the "fine tuning" of dates might be the only thing that gets done in 2026 for the last possible patch, so maybe we have until then to find out for sure. But they're not in service now.

Anyway...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...to_troops.html

Upon careful review of the above ref, you'll note two other different topics within the same article as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Start (and sometimes end) dates are always "fun".

Base it on the first operational deployment?
Base it on the first full unit equipped?

Re: MBT's
 

Here's something for everyone. I've downloaded the Russian deck, though I wish they would've orientated the cards differently.

So Happy Thanksgiving (U.S) and for everyone else, an early Merry Christmas!!
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...cognition.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

P.S. My system is CLEAN (Just did my monthly MS Malicious Software scan two days ago for instance and other security checks.), when I clicked on the thread I was redirected to a site saying my Flash Player is outdated (BIG RED FLAG THERE!!) and a home improvement site. Just saying not very nice.

Re: MBT's
 

I too am getting random tabs opening and only on these forums.

I downloaded Opera, transferred bookmarks etc and uninstalled firefox - still happening

I downloaded chrome, uninstalled Opera, went to shrapnel site on chrome and attempted to enter my username etc - BANG - redirect to another spam site appears in a new tab.

Trying to navigate around the forums, occasional spam new tab, various sites or "utilities" offered.

So - open up a virtual machine running UBUNTU Linux, so absolutely no connection to anything on the main box, navigate to these forums using Firefox on there, and again as I tried to enter my details on the login section - WHAM! - a new tab pops up wit unwanted crap.

I had run 2 different anti--viruses on the box in between each new browser install, no results.

The only common denominator is trying to access these forums, so my unfortunate conclusion is that there is some sort of hijack code exploit running on the server:hurt:

Re: MBT's
 

< I had mentioned that Andy had some problems too but he beat me to the post >

FWIW I have had no issues at all but I DL'd and ran the MS Malicious Software scanner and my computer came back clean but I have a number of other checks for these kind of attacks running and have not had any in quite awhile

Don

Re: MBT's
 

Can't say as I have had any issues.

Win 10, Firefox, Spybot.

Re: MBT's
 

I also get random tabs opened when clicking anywhere (not some button) on the forum, e.g.

https://special-offers.online/lp/common/arb/

Maybe the admins should move this conversation to a new thread?

Re: MBT's
 

Shrapnel has found the problem and is working on it but the timing with the Thanksgiving Holiday meant they were closed yesterday so the good news is this is in the process of being corrected

Don

Re: MBT's
 

Looks like Tim and his crew got it fixed. Got "straight through" with no redirections as of this writing.

THANKS TO EVERYONE IN INVOLVED!! :clap:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

It has popped up several times as I tried to reply to this post, and when I tried to post. So some work needed still, unfortunately.

Re: MBT's
 

It has hit me in my browser (chrome). But on my iPhone using chrome it works fine (no pop up redirects).

Re: MBT's
 

Seems to be fixed now - went to various posts all over the forums, no pop up tabs opening.

Re: MBT's
 

I still have it.

Re: MBT's
 

I had it happen in Firefox. But in IE it doesn't happen.

troopie

Re: MBT's
 

Try clearing your browsers cache

Re: MBT's
 

Which browser are you using?

Re: MBT's
 

MS Edge. But it's OK now, problem solved for me as well.

Re: MBT's
 

Well as most know, I "generally" don't waste our time by posting items that aren't relevant. I believe this information is, however, I'm still on the fence as to how relevant it'll be in the end. I'm still working it on a "part time" basis which happened to be today.

What I know is there are 10-12 of these tanks (Should sound familiar to you concerning another Ukrainian tank now in the game.) and I posted on this early this year as they were paraded in Kiev.

The other important event is that the KMDB site is back up for access, it was restricted when the trouble began with Russia (Native language only and very basic equipment data.) but was still up at the time we were looking at the OPLOT-M and reevaluating a couple of other tanks (Yes we do that like it or not at times.)

So without any more fanfare...
https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetanko...botki/yatagan/

I believe after reading this again from the "Think Tank" the re-evaluated OPLOT-M we entered in the last patch, is I think right based on this one review overall.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...st-fight-26287
https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetanko...rabotki/oplot/
https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetanko...i-vooruzhenie/

Got things to do (Playing at bachelor with my "budding" Oscar the almost 20 year old turtle who I can't even go out on the town with because he's "underage", that's a bummer!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

POST SCRIPT:
I was just curious about what info was included under the "MODERNIZATION" section of the main site (Ref. 4 above.)
As both YAGATAN & OPLOT-M are better then what they had when the site was "restricted", however, not the case for the "older" tanks. There's some good data which "POSSIBLY" lead to some modification or "NOT", but very useful none the less. I give you the BM BULAT this IS NOT the Ukrainian Army's most modern version as I posted on a few months back the BM BULAT 2017.
https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetanko...izaciya/bulat/

Got laundry to fold before they disturb my sleep in the morning to Re-Reinstall our new interior doors, Just don't tell CINCLANTHOME, it's a Secret project while she's in Va. So SSHHHhhhh! ;)

Re: MBT's
 

Here we go again! Being redirected to "UPDATE FLASH PLAYER" same issue as last. My rig is clean.

Obviously these people are "Night Stalkers", happened on the main forum ("Move" Thread from Paulo.) and in the TO&Es MBT Thread.

My BITDEFENDER Total Security Suite had todays random scan showing no infection (It does them daily randomly.) going to do an off line scan, if it picks something up I'll report it.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Have you cleared your browser's cache since last time?

Re: MBT's
 

I emailed Tim at Shrapnel and he acknowledged that "They got to us again" but they have now put additional safeguards in place and hopefully this problem will not re-appear

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
Just got home...As a matter of routine I always clean out several caches on a daily basis and in preparation of any security checks I'm going to run on my rig.

No issues at my end.

Thank you again and Tim and his crew!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I found this to be an interesting read.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/ht.../20191219.aspx

Re: MBT's
 

Well I'll buy that author of the above article a beverage of their choice!

And don't none of you get too excited about those 15 tanks or so, they'll be in field testing for sometime to come as I've already posted on in this thread from and as quoted from high ranking officials from Russia's MOD & Army.

How about that "ECONOMICS" lesson? Enough said there, except to say I factor this in when submitting "START" dates of equipment. I can account for this data easily enough with my resources.

Given the above, I'm not that good to account weapons programs being cancelled or delayed in production. To those issues and unless it's out there before submission, Don and I can only get frustrated (Just a little bit!?!) and react to the situation. We've seen plenty of that over the years and quite frankly, I fear there'll be more to come including the T-14 and the OTHER USUAL SUSPECTS.

We do what we can with what we have. You just gotta roll with it.

I'll be working the Holidays (Again.) this year, but, I want to wish all of you the very best of the season no matter how you celebrate them!!!!!!

Again that was both a good find and article.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

All I'll say is we somehow manage to afford aircraft and ships ... most of which cost far more then a tank. Maybe we'll have smaller tank formations in the future (the US has already reduced a platoon from 5 tanks to 4). Not every tank needs to be top-of-the line, for instance the Russians use the BMP-3 with a 100mm main gun and the US the Stryker M1128 with a 105mm main gun for infantry support.

Re: MBT's
 

You simply can't compare the two economies. For 2019 the U.S. is tracking to retake the #1 (GDP per capita (Nominal) ($) #8.) spot while China looks to drop back too #2 (GDP per capita (Nominal) ($) #70.) mostly caused by the "trade war" started this past summer.

Russia's situation is much worse and based on the Sunday morning news program is likely to get even worse after the holidays when Sen. Graham (SC) is apparently going to introduce further stricter sanctions on Russia.

Russia is tracking to close out 2019 with a ranking of #11 (GDP per capita (Nominal) ($) #66.)

I are "Bubblehead Investor" :doh: :p and these things matter to varying degrees when putting your future on the line or buying military equipment etc. etc. and so on and so forth.
http://www.statisticstimes.com/econo...dp-ranking.php

Please note their source in the header.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I've been very hesitate to post anything concerning the following new tank for Poland, except for it's attempts to be a part of the "consortium" with Germany and France.

As the first ref. states from Poland will show, the "new" LEOPARD (Assumed.) imitative is not likely to start before 2035. This will not work from the stand point of equipment obsolescence and because no decision has been forthcoming about Poland joining the others in the development of the new "LEOPARD".

So an interim solution had to be found, but again I had nothing "solid" to warrant it being posted until, now. It appears it'll be called the K2PL for now and what is still being discussed is what will it's final configuration going to look like.

I'll be tracking that.

So here's the rest. The first is from Poland and Army Recognition is actually out of Belgium and not France (Figured this out sometime back but, needed a way to work it into the conversation. :D) as I originally thought.
https://www.defence24.com/could-pola...korea-analysis
(Above from December 2019 as translated.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/janu...tle_tanks.html

Also as looking into other refs. for the above I found this instead from JANE's. The Ukraine is receiving (Has) the first 15 tanks with a full tank battalion fitted out by February of the T-72AMT. JANE's covers most of the improvements in their "limited free" article.
https://www.janes.com/article/93929/...n-armed-forces

Someone is waiting on me for dinner. If you need more on the T-72AMT let me know.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Postscript: I checked my MBT file and found the following as it appears I'd been tracking the T-72 AMT from the Ukraine for awhile.
From August 2017:
https://armyrecognition.com/weapons_..._12908175.html
From August 2018:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu...n_ukraine.html
https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetanko...nizaciya/t-72/

I've included the last to offer some prospective on the upgrades already provided for T-72 modifications from the Ukraine. This is good data from the stand point that all three modernization programs are compared against the stats of the T-72 side-by-side.

Note: That the T-72AMT IS NOT addressed in the ref., as it's a "newer" upgrade/or modernization program.

Re: MBT's
 

So does this means the June 2016 start date for the two we have in the OOB now needs to be Feb 2020???

Re: MBT's
 

Wasn't aware the T-72AMT was in the Ukraine OOB. So in short, YES, the dates need to be changed. This is why I added the Postscript with those refs. And as the title of the JANE's ref. says "First T-72AMTs delivered to Ukrainian Armed Forces"

I gotta get ready for work!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

......and that is why you need to start checking the OOB's Pat before posting info ........ we cannot do OOB editing in a vacuum. I had no idea if you were referring to the original unit or a new upgrade to the original unit

Re: MBT's
 

Well they've never failed in in their ability to let me down, and they've done it again. However I've already made adjustments for the latest version to be submitted before the following was posted. So I think some of you know the "who" and "what" I'm referring to. If not...
https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020...nderlines.html (From 09 Feb.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

On first click to TO&E Thread and to start this post, I'm getting re-directed by a "pop-up" to update my Flash Player. Didn't really think much of it because I really did need to update via my normal notifications.

This happened again just before I posted this.

That along with a couple of other updates were done this morning, but I'm still getting this message, and only here.

Auto-Scan/Done/Clean

Off Line scan/Done/Clean

Latest MS Malicious Software Tool scan/Done/Clean

All done this morning.

I use Bitdefender Total Security and MS Defender (Background.) in tandem. They both work together with no issues.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Firefox and NOD32, no issues here.

Re: MBT's
 

I have reported the issue and Shrapnel is monitoring but it seems very isolated

Re: MBT's
 

I was getting the same thing that Pat was getting but only one thread (see the Website problems thread for more details so as not to throw this topic off topic).

Sorry for the intrusion Pat.

Re: MBT's
 

This is a duplicate of what I posted to the WW2 forums
FYI all:

Shrapnel has
So it is real and it's taken awhile for it to filter to other uses ( I have had no problems this time or last but I have web filters out the wazoo for things like this)