Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Ok, I ran some tests and here are the results.

First Test

Sidhe Lord
Equipment: Frost Brand, Eye Shield, Dragon Helmet, Rainbow Armor, Bracers, Pendant of Luck
Script: Bless, Barkskin, Mistform, hold, hold, attack
vs.
Female Shishi
Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Pendant of Luck
Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack

battle 1 - Shishi killed
battle 2 - Shishi routed
battle 3 - Shishi routed


Second Test

Sidhe Lord
Equipment: Frost Brand, Vine Shield, Dragon Helmet, Rainbow Armor, Bracers, Pendant of Luck
Script: Bless, Barkskin, Mistform, hold, hold, attack
vs.
Female Shishi
Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Pendant of Luck
Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, Flight, hold, hold, attack

battle 1 - Shishi routed
battle 2 - Shishi killed
battle 3 - Shishi routed


Third Test

Sidhe Lord
Equipment: Frost Brand, Vine Shield, Dragon Helmet, Rainbow Armor, Bracers, Pendant of Luck
Script: Bless, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack
vs.
Female Shishi
Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Pendant of Luck
Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack

battle 1 - Sidhe lord killed
battle 2 - Sidhe lord killed
battle 3 - Shishi killed

The one win for the Sidhe Lord was very lucky - he was down to 1 HP but managed to survive and all of a sudden started scoring hits on the Shishi. The lesson here is that without barkskin the Sidhe Lords protection is too low.


Fourth Test

Skratti
Equipment: Sword of Swiftness, Eye Shield, Horned Helmet, Green Dragon Scale Mail, Boots of the Messenger, Pendant of Luck
Script: Quicken self, hold, hold, hold, hold, attack
vs.
Female Shishi
Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Pendant of Luck
Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack

battle 1 - Shishi killed
battle 2 - Shishi killed
battle 3 - Shishi killed

No surprise on these results. General pattern was that the Shishi scores some hits but soon enough the Skratti kills it.


If anyone wants to run their own tests on Shishi's or other diversity summons I've attached a saved game and the mod I used for testing. The mod is a CBM 1.6 base, with changes made for the ThreeFort game (the relevant one being that most spells are level 0), Diversity mod added with summons costing 1 gem, and several globals and wish set to cost 1 N gem so you can easily summon and equip units.

Edit: Shishi's, Sidhe Lords and Skratti are positioned on the left of the map, ready for battle.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Why mistform? It absorbs only one hit before popping because both sides have magic weapons.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Now give that shishi a ring of frost resistance against frost brand for a change. :)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Sure, here are the results.

Fifth Test

Sidhe Lord
Equipment: Frost Brand, Eye Shield, Dragon Helmet, Rainbow Armor, Bracers, Pendant of Luck
Script: Bless, Barkskin, Mistform, hold, hold, attack
vs.
Female Shishi
Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Ring of CR
Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack

battle 1 - Shishi killed
battle 2 - Shishi killed
battle 3 - Shishi killed

This is where the Shishi's limited slots become a real disadvantage since I gave up the Pendant of Luck in order to get Cold Resistance. Note that in two out of three of the above battles the Shishi was blinded relatively quickly, despite still having the AoMR.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

True, and I have sometimes gone without it when facing troops with magic weapons. But in a 1 vs. 1 situation I'd be inclined to use it. 15 HP doesn't leave much margin for error and mistform can save you from that first hit that the RNG rolls huge damage for. So it was more for the benefit of the Sidhe Lord than the Shishi.

The other thing is of course that I have both parties waiting 5 rounds before attacking and attacking without fatigue. I did try a test where I had the Shishi cast Flight and immediately attack. This disrupted the Sidhe Lord/Tuatha's (not sure which it was) buff routine and caused damage several times but the Shishi still lost. I was kind of surprised at that.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

And what's the bless for these sidhe lords? Judging by bracers, its heavy earth bless + something else.

I wonder how would they fare without heavy blessing; imho Eriu cant really afford a heavy bless strategy with such a limited magic on nationals. Same goes for MA Vanheim - at least I think so.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

As far as blesses for Eriu go, read this. For that matter, E9/Xx works pretty well for Vanir too.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Since nobody managed to win with Eriu using this guide nor this bless yet, I guess having no endgame magic paths doesnt pay off around turn 60 or so after all. :)
I have no doubt it works like a charm on Sidhe Lords tho.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Eriu has issues. I don't think anyone would contest that.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

Thanks very much everyone for the comments, and thanks especially Valerius for the tests. It looks like the Shishi is still eminently killable, but perhaps it is true that he is applicable in an overly wide range of situations without any modification to his kit, given the low cost.

Okay, my current inclination is to reduce the Shishi attack by, say, 6. Possibly by 8 if it was considered necessary.

The alternative is to reduce their magic to A1 and give them #onebattlespell Mistform. Of course I could do both - maybe they should be cheaper then?

They weren't originally intended to be cloud trapeze assassins. I wanted them to be very flexible and mobile army support, able to take on a chunk of enemy troops (especially demons) as a valuable part of an army. Obviously they are also suited to raiding, which is fine. Of course, you can't really control what people use things for.

I quite like them having 6 attacks. It makes them into a really flurry-of-blows army killer. I could reduce this but it would not be my preferred option.

zzcat: I can see why you think the Zmey is overpowered, but I don't think he is. I did quite a lot of tests against a mundane army of Man knights, without mage support. Before I added the tail (which provides repel), the zmey (with current stats) was always killed, after killing maybe 6-10 knights. I want the Zmey to be a MONSTER - it should be the scariest animal-type monster in the entire game, hence it should be able to take on large numbers of mortal troops (I don't think it will ever compete with a true SC with full slots). The previous incarnation was always killed almost immediately after killing hardly anyone.

However, I would not be averse to reducing the attack on the tail by a couple of points (makes a surprisingly large difference), or to increasing the cost a little. I should perhaps do some tests against an army with mage support. My feeling is that the Zmey would still be killed, but at least he now provides some threat, as desired.