Re: MBT's
 

No worries, there's a reason I posted that here, it would get attention sooner then later.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

For anyone interested in armor penetration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y284...ist=WL&index=3

Re: MBT's
 

First off this is the second time on the site in the last hour or so that I haven't been redirected concerning updating my Flash Player.

Thank You Don and Shrapnel Games team!!

From this Thread on Page 94 Post #940 and as recently submitted in the 2018/2019 Patch Post Campaign Part 2, It looks like my "best guess" for FOC of the T-90M START, should be real close to RL based on the below ref. taken from Russian Sources in the MOD.

I was surprised though to see there're only talking about 15 tanks for this year. I had believed they would field at least somewhere around 50 this year.

The T-14, as I report is still on track for OPEVAL testing to begin by Summer of this year. They are hoping for FOC by end of 2021. And I have a bridge to sell you as well!?!

You will note in the last para, they left themselves a handful of "outs" why it might be delayed further. If we're at now about 4 years into OPEVALING the M1A2 SEP V3 (I know M something something.), well you know where I'm heading with this for the T-14.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...ed_forces.html

We're done with the "Reindeer Games" (And did very well!), that we're taking a few days off for some Spring Training B-BALL!!!

So in the meantime, I hope everyone has a GREAT WEEKEND!!

And for Don, I'll have the last of MBT's submitted in Part 3 by Tuesday night next.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I was wondering why I hadn't seen anything recently concerning the M1A2C (SEP 3) except for electronic issues and of course TROPHY.

We already know (Or should know.) that the M1A2C has and overall improved armor over the M1A2 SEP 2.

Well according to the next (And whatever else I can find in the time I have before work.) is that the USA has decided within the last couple of months to add STEEL plated armor to the turret.

The result is this will be the heaviest ABRAMS to serve the Army. It apparently will add tons of weight to the tank affecting turret operations. As the article implies this will require a new turret motor.

For now, I highly recommend, we leave this alone.

What I now know, and as a reminder this article isn't even 2 weeks old, we'll need a date change of at least a year possibly two by my estimation, a fairly substantial STEEL turret revision and possible look at the ammo as this tank will be at present the only one currently able to fire the new kinetic round that was designed for it.

I'm sure it just won't be just "plain old" steel plates. I suspect these plates will be manufactured to the specs of what's already used on the tank and acting as a "second skin" if you will.

Ever changing and always a headache! As one of my CO's used as his mantra "Change is a constant."
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...2c-tank-117576
https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-i...n-battle-tank/
(This last is dated.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I will GLADLY "leave this alone" as this has got " future corrections" written all over it

Re: MBT's
 

I figured as much. I was absolutely thrilled when I came across that myself.

And the world just keeps on turning!

How "wonderful" for us! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Just a little something I came across while reading my "morning papers", it concerns the use of German tanks by Norway during the Post WWII era.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/norwe...mkanon-kw-iii/

Esigenza C3
And something for you "scenario guys" (Though someone might have done it already?), the purposed invasion of Malta. The article does include plans and additional references at the bottom of the article.

If nothing else it does make for interesting reading to include the fact that the Japanese directly assisted in the planning, something I wasn't aware of until I read this. Something different on at least here, a "lazy" Sunday.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/categ...icles/tactics/

And yes I know this is better suited WinSPWW2. But I don't think I've posted more then 5 or 6 times on there and I figure someone here can bring it up to someone there if they think it's worthwhile.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

There is a lot of irony in that you may have provided the last photo for a unit I add to SPWW2 with that Esigenza C3 article......

Re: MBT's
 

Well I'm glad that in this case and for a change, I found something that didn't involve us going to "Battle Stations" to fix something or another! ;) :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: I didn't realize their were more articles under the one I posted such as the Battle for Verba Russia. Interesting.

Re: MBT's
 

Those days are drawing to a close........

Re: MBT's
 

Not to hard to "read between the lines" of your last! After all I seem to remember there wasn't even supposed to be a release this year.

We can only take and appreciate what we can get, while we can get it.

So I'll just THANK ANDY and YOU in advance.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well for once or very rarely, India has managed NOT to let me down. I submitted changes to the ARJUN Mk-1A (Post 240 in FASTBOAT Patch Page.) which was a "new" item for this upcoming Release.

Well India is ordering 118 of the ARJUN Mk-1A, FINALLY they've done something that'll have an impact on their armor.

Still standing by that MBT as submitted by Post #240 as noted above. It might even be on target to meet the FOC date I picked.

However that MBT picture IS NOT a ARJUN Mk-1A but is in fact the ARJUN Mk-1.

Anyway...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/marc...tle_tanks.html

Anyway got reassigned to another "special project" from the one I started with last week. You love that "ping pong" ball feeling! And yes I remember I volunteering for this almost a month ago.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

You know I just read that article a few days ago, and while I did not know that the pic was a Mk-1 vs. a Mk-1A I was thinking man I need to create a scenario for that tank lol.

Have these (or the Mk-1's) been used in combat? If so do you have a source so I can use that to create a scenario? If not I'll need some kind of hypothetical scenario idea.

Anyway thanks for sharing the link.

Re: MBT's
 

Everyone can take a deep breath and relax. All the pics of that tank and the Ajeya's in the game are correct now

Re: MBT's
 

They have not. They are currently posted in the Western desert portion with Pakistan and are meant for conflict against them. The T-90S and soon T-90MS (All addressed in the Patch Post/MBT Threads for this year.) will be used to fight on the borders with Pakistan and China.

It should be noted that Israeli's Military and IMI reps evaluated the ARJUN Mk-1 and "dubbed" the tank as the "Desert Ferrari" which is in the refs provided, coming from them, that's high praise considering they have the MERKAVA which must be something like a Bugatti Veyron (I wait for the day I'll have a couple of Million Dollars lying around to have one of those to take to work!)

Even Chinese MOD reps thought the tank very capable.

The revised Arjun Mk-1A will be much better as I think Don stayed with it as submitted.

Last Day of the special assignment and the last day to wake up at that ungodly hour of 5am. :p Who does that anyway!!! :doh: Back to 9 or 10am Friday morning! :D Sometimes I'm just going to bed then-it's all just crazy to me.!! :D

Wasn't worried about the pictures as we straightened that out, but it's sure misleading for "someone" else. Hate when refs do that! :doh:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I hope I am not hijacking this thread and I know this won’t make the patch (or if it’s even applicable), but thought that it was interesting and wanted to share (also did not know where to post this, so this seemed like a good choice).

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/new-hel...39-8-miles.amp

Some quotes:

“The new weapon in development, called Extended Range Cannon Artillery, not only preserves the GPS-guided precision attack options characteristic of present-day artillery, but also extends attack ranges from roughly 30km (18.6 miles) out to nearly 70km (43.5 miles).“

And:

“The new ERCA cannon, fired from a prototype self-propelled howitzer called the M1299, features a longer barrel and new, self-described “super-charged” propellant. The first operational systems are slated for delivery to the Army by 2023.”

It seems it’s still a 155mm artillery round being delivered, just at a very extreme range. Any other thoughts or links on this?

Re: MBT's
 

You'll find all sorts of artillery issues and submissions in the SP and SPAA Developments Thread.

Also I see Mark Shepard posted on the same system in that Thread, Post #149 from a different source.

I would like to point out as well we had some "very lively" but on point discussions in two separate Threads. They were highly informative and covered artillery issues besides Cluster Munitions.

The following are the Thread Titles in the TO&E Forum:
Cluster Munitions after CCM? (Page 4) This one would lead to major changes in the game concerning CM. Based on the Treaty signed by certain countries it was found in the game that they were still using them. Well not anymore.

Disclaimer: That was all Don's fault and NOT anyone else that might have or might not have contributed to that Thread.! :p Just Sayin!!:shock:

There are a couple of Threads on Page 6 or 7.

CM arty modeling (Page 10) Excellent discussion here that as I recalled branched out to effects of artillery against armor if not mistaken.

They are plenty throughout this Forum.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

This is the best place to let you know that two weeks ago SIPRI had updated all their tables to reflect the transactions that occurred in 2019. From the ref. this is how they see the info can be used.

It has proven to be a very valuable tool over the last handful of years and has very useful in dispelling claims that "X" country has "Y" equipment. In those cases I go there first which afterward "fine tunes" my web search to verify SIPRI's data. So far they're "batting a thousand" for you baseball fans.

"The current version was published on 9 March 2020.

The database can be used to address a range of questions, including:

Who are the suppliers and recipients of major conventional weapons?

What weapons have been exported or imported by specific suppliers or recipients?

How have the relationships between different suppliers and recipients changed over time?

Where do countries in conflict get their weapons from?

How do states implement their export control regulations?

Where are potentially destabilizing build ups of weapons occurring?

What is the relationship between access to natural resources and arms transfers?"

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

So this is the second article I have read on this. Why would the Marines do this? Of curse I am based, I am an old tanker.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/

Re: MBT's
 

Hi Pat its always interesting to look & tells you who the big boys are. Many countries while they might have high end equipment purchase very few of them.
Have you found any sites that cover ammo sales for tanks? Mainly type of AP rounds sold.

Re: MBT's
 

John: First, good to hear from you, though I know you "lurk in the background" most times.

Global Security is one site I've used in the past. The link below will take you directly to their munitions tab.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ons/index.html

This will be a "live" post as I try to recover a couple of more sites for you.
The next is very limited but none the less might still be useful. It has been more useful to me dealing with some MBT/APC issues to include some I just "resubmitted" in my Patch Post. Again linked directly to ammo section.
https://weaponsystems.net/menu/74
https://panzerworld.com/anti-tank-ammunition

A little Industry sites I've found useful in my research...
https://elbitsystems.com/media/Catalog-Tanks_16_Web.pdf
http://www.mecar.be/content.php?lang...nus=1156856627
https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/lar...er-ammunition/
https://rheinmetall-defence.com/en/r...ants/index.php

Again I've used most if not all of these over the years. I have deferred most of the ammo issues to Don over the years as well for my submissions, mainly because I feel he has some very good resources of his own to use.

However that doesn't excuse me from doing "my due diligence" before I offer my thoughts and to have an intelligent "conversation" on the matter.

I dig and read all I can because you can't "BS" this crowd!?! ;)

But Global Security is at top for a reason. :D

Back to my "normal watch routine" tomorrow-Thank God!

Hope this helps John!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

John, sorry I went back to your post and reread it. Unfortunately I've never come across a site that tracks ammunition sales like SIPRI tracks armament sales.

Military-Today/Tank Encyclopedia do a real good job in noting ammo types used for the equipment they list.

Take the above and combine it with the manufacturers (And their Press/or News releases.) I posted in my last post, that might get you closer.

Otherwise I just normally see that type of data posted randomly on the various websites I use on a daily basis.

I did try for over an hour to find something of more value to you than what I just posted above, however, I was unsuccessful.

The only one I think covers that is Janes in their "Sustainment & Procurement" publication which, as you know comes with a "hefty" price tag.

Sorry.



Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat,

Could you shed some light on why the USMC is going to shred their Tanks?

I am biased and just can't imagine the Marines with Tanks...

Thanks

Re: MBT's
 

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/mari...years-1.623471

and

https://taskandpurpose.com/

Just FYI.......

Re: MBT's
 

Currently each USMC Division has one (yes one) tank battalion.

The "problem" is they're big and HEAVY, thus hard to transport. None of the LCMs can carry one, the WW II LSTs (Landing Ship Tank) have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo. The only thing currently available to ferrying them ashore is the LCAC (Landing Craft Air Cushion) and it can barely carry an M1A1 (60 ton cargo capacity, 75 tons if the sea is calm).

So you pretty much need a cargo ship, and a port facility to get them ashore.

This doesn't mesh well with the USMCs mission as a rapid reaction/deployment force. The USMC has ALWAYS seen tanks as an infantry support unit not an anti-armor one. They have Helos and ATGMs for dealing with vehicles simply because they have so few tanks chances are they won't be where they're needed to counter opposition armor.

So the plan is to disband three of the four tank battalions; keeping one (probably with 1st MarDiv in California, they're the "desert" division). The money saved not buying/maintaining tanks can be used for other things (keep in mind the USMC has a tiny budget compared to the other US service branches).

As to cutting back on artillery, well, as much as Don HATES it the USMC has relied on "flying artillery" since WW II. The US Navy (and it's carriers) is suppose to achieve local air superiority (without it amphibious landings are impossible) so Marine Air is ground attack, necessary SEAD and escort aircraft, NOT "air superiority fighters". This is why the USMC is so insistent on the Harrier and F-35B (STOVL), we don't expect to have access to the nice huge paved runways the US Air Force needs. And we can (and do) land on any old road (or flat field) and refuel/rearm off trucks, no fixed facilities for the opposition to target.

The other piece of this is helos, for the size of it's ground combat formations the USMC has a very high proportion of helos (only pure AirCav formations have more). Each infantry battalion is generally supported by four AH-1Zs and two UH-1Ys (primarily observation) and enough MV-22s and CH-53s to helolift an infantry company plus it's (non-tank/AAV) assets, so there's always a helo close at hand to deal with armor or dump a load of rockets on a soft target. Again, land anywhere, drive fuel and ammo trucks up, refuel/reload, and you're back in the fight.

Re: MBT's
 

Thanks Pat I thought as much. I have a feeling higher end ammo is more readily sold nowadays to selected friends but its hard to verify.

Re: MBT's
 

I think we're closer to "Apples to Apples" in relation to equipment sales and ammo sales as you've suggested.

A recent example as I submitted is a single item further revision to the OPLOT-T as compared to the OPLOT-M. Or T-90M versus T-90MS. These are things I have to keep in mind constantly in dealing with equipment issues.

A more practical one would deal with the ABRAMS, the last thing we need is to have a country running around with one of our tanks and it would fall into the hands of the enemy opposing that government. We saw this happen in Iraq when some of those ABRAMS got into the Iranian backed militias.

I'm sure Iran benefitted from those tanks however, but they didn't get our DU Armor tech, FCS etc. and they also didn't get our latest (Or near to.) ammo types either. I f I had to guess they probably got something on the level of mid to late 90's or early 2K tech.

We have enough of those tanks stockpiled to support our needs for modernization or export sales.

So yes "friends to friends" but not always including ammo. :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well time to get the ball "rolling" if a little slowing.

Brazil after aggressively starting a military modernization program in the mid-2000's that continued for a little over ten years (Which we've kept pace with in the OOB.), seems ready to do it again with a focus on a new MBT in the 50 ton or less category and as outlined in the first ref. below.

I have taken the liberty of first reading this article, then going to the military-today website that as most know has a pretty robust list of modern and current tanks.

I have culled from that website the following tanks that fit the weight and MG (120mm) requirements plus most of the other requirements per ref 1. which is from JANE's and is thus perishable.
https://www.janes.com/article/95218/...ew-mbt-project

The tanks.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_90.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm
(There seems to be discussion that it can be retrofitted to a 120mm MG.)
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84_yatagan.htm
(As you might recall I posted articles this past Fall showing them on military parade. It is estimated they operate 13 to 15 of these tanks at this time which is about the same number when we entered the OPLOT-M. Also these are modernized from the time this article was first posted.)

I feel Japan would consider such an opportunity if it arose, however I feel the odds are against it but, I'm definitely not saying it couldn't happen either. I t would provide added income to help support their continuing modernization program as well if the order was large enough.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I've had a few people, and posts on other forums, question why Japan went with the Type 10 (48 tons fully loaded) as their MBT.

The answer is very simple: Roads, bridges, and sealift.
Japan is a VERY mountainous nation, narrow roads, lots of bridges, and like the US they won't be able to drive to the battle (unless they're invaded) so any, and everything needs to be transported, probably via ship.

Re: MBT's
 

Also remember it’s a defence force Japan does not fight overseas.so it’s a sensible idea they can deploy in the majority of places mainly as infantry support. Should someone try to land normal MBT they could probably meet them on the beaches. Around half the bridges in Japan cannot support a 60 ton vehicle.

Re: MBT's
 

As a continuation of the above conversations, I found some interesting data that supports the discussion to this point.

Also as I keep my eyes open to the world on matters concerning the game, I found some interesting news concerning Nigeria that has taken delivery of what will be one of the most advanced tanks operating in Africa.

Nigeria is at the forefront of Sub-Sahara countries trying to modernize their armies.

Now back to Japan, first from ref. 1...
This really also includes the TYPE-74/TYPE-90 as well as the TYPE-10 the ref is about, this under Mobility.
"A feature carried over from both the Type 74 and Type 90 is the Hydropneumatic Active Suspension. This is seen as a ‘must-have’ feature by Japanese strategic heads, given the Japanese countryside’s mountainous terrain. The suspension allows the tank to ride higher or lower depending on the terrain type, tilt left or right, or raise and lower the front or rear of the tank. This increases the elevation or depression angle of the gun, giving the ability to fire over a ridge line without presenting a target for an enemy vehicle.
(Somewhere in this Thread on the TYPE-10, I posted a picture of the tank at about a ~35 degree angle going over a wall on the right side of the tank.)
This suspension also has another use. A bulldozer blade can be mounted on the bow of the vehicle. When the front of the tank is fully depressed, this blade serves as a way to clear out debris from a firing position or help to carve out a new one.
A similar system was incorporated on the Swedish Strv. 103, or S-Tank."

Next...
"Deployment Capabilities
One of the issues with the Type 90 Kyū-maru Main Battle Tank was its weight of 50.2 tons. Due to weight limits of many roads and bridges in some of the more rural areas of Japan, the Type 90 was only deployed in Hokkaido.
A requirement of the Type 10 was that it was much lighter, and it achieved that. Unloaded, which is how it would be transported, it only weighs 40 tons, as previously mentioned. This means that 84% of Japan’s 17,920 bridges are now passable with the Type 10, compared to only 65% of the Type 90, and a meager 40% for the average western tank."

So there you have.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/moder...pe-10-hitomaru
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/tk_x.htm

Highlights:
"Vehicle has a sloped modular ceramic composite armor similar to the Leopard 2A5. Its side profile is similar to the Leclerc."

"Autoloader is located in the turret bustle (More on this w/TYPE 90 below.) The autoloader is more advanced than on the previous Type 90 MBT."

"The Type 10 fires newly developed armor-piercing ammunition."

"The Type 10 main battle tank is also fitted with a state-of-the-art semi-active hydropneumatic suspension. The tank can "sit", "stand", "kneel" or to "lean" in any direction. This feature gives a number of advantages, especially operating in mountainous terrain."

On TYPE-90...
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/moder...pe-90_Kyu-Maru http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_90.htm

Highlights:
"The Type 90 is among the best MBTs in the world. Furthermore for a period of time it was the most expensive production MBT."

"The Type 90 has an all-welded hull and turret. Its composite armor has superior resistance qualities."

"However autoloaders of the Cold War era Soviet main battle tanks had one common problem as the ready-to-use ammunition was stored in the main compartment, rather than a separate compartment. In this case once the armor is penetrated it can trigger detonation of onboard ammunition. Japanese designers addressed this problem by relocating the autoloader in the turret bustle with blow-out panels. So ready-to-use ammunition is separated from the crew. Autoloader of the Type 90 tank holds 20 rounds, stored in the turret bustle that are ready to fire."
(Rest are stored in the Front Hull area.)

"At the time it was one of the most advanced fire control systems in the world. It gives a high first round hip probability and, accurate mobile firing. Furthermore it has hunter-killer engagement capability, which enables to engage multiple targets rapidly. This feature was new at the time when this tank was introduced."
With development of the TYPE 10, supposedly, the FCS has been further updated.)

" Fire control system of the Type 90 is reportedly more advanced than those used on the French Leclerc, German Leopard 2A5 and American M1A2 Abrams.

The TYPE 10 is meant to supplement the TYPE-90. Though the TYPE 10 can take out any modern MBT, due to the specialized AP round it can only fire, it's not really designed for that purpose, this is why the TYPE-90 will stay in service until replaced.

On TYPE 74...
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw...ype-74_MBT.php
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_74.htm
Highlights:
"This tank uses a number of best features of contemporary Western designs, placing it in the same class as the M60 Patton and Leopard 1. However it saw widespread use only in 1980s, when more capable Western designs were introduced. So the Type 74 was generally out-dated even before it entered service"

"A cast turret of the Type 74 is broadly similar to that of the French AMX-30. This main battle tank is armed with a fully-stabilized 105 mm rifled gun. It is the British L7 gun, manufactured in Japan under license. Prototype of the Type 74 was fitted with an autoloader, however it proved too complex and expensive, and was removed. Initially the Type 74 used HEP rounds. These were later upgraded to APFDSD and HEAT-MP. A total of 55 rounds are carried for the main gun"

"Fire control system of this main battle tank was very advanced. For the first time in the world a tank was fitted with advanced computer for ballistic calculations. It also had a laser rangefinder. In service tanks were later upgraded with infra-red imagers."

"Vehicle has a hydropneumatic suspension, allowing this MBT to "sit", "stand", "kneel" or to "lean". This feature was incorporated from the canceled German-US MBT-70 design. The driver can adjust the suspension to suit the type of terrain."

There you have it. All quotes taken from Military-Today

Nigeria:
They received the first shipment of VT-4 tank(s), SH-5 6x6 105mm SPA and ST-1 light tanks. This supplemented by Russian equipment recently (Ref. 1 Para 9) received as well. Also from ref. 1 the crews have already been trained in China on their use. Once CORNA-19 dissipates, China is to send along F/U trainers.
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/feature...ry-from-china/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apri...rian_army.html
https://defence-blog.com/army/nigeri...rom-china.html
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...pladaily01.htm

I would expect the Chinese equipment to be operational by Oct-Dec timeframe if the shipments are on schedule.

If it applies: Happy Easter!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Keep in mind the Japanese military is primarily a defensive force. In recent years they've been having (heated) discussions about permitting their forces to operate outside Japans national territory and take part in NATO/SEATO operations.

Re: MBT's
 

Don, not feeling ready to "bounce" the "resubmissions" against the OOB's as of yet, (I'm thinking.)...done..., I hope this will only affect a few (Hopefully NONE) others out here, CINCLANTHOME has lost a close friend that she's known since she was 7 years old last Wed in upstate N.Y. a couple of hrs. NW of the "Big Apple" to CORNA-19.

It has made her a little more "hyper-sensitive" concerning my job on the base, especially as we have a handful+ of confirmed cases onboard, which is public information.

She understands I have a duty and responsibility to do my part and therefore I will. I couldn't have asked for a more supportive "team member" if I tried and we are a team. Yeah, besides she let's me "hang" with all of you and what can go wrong there, even with the good, bad or indifferent. ;)

So the Admin side will have to wait a bit.

However a good campaign of Japan versus Russia after my last post well, just seems in order.

I have to say I'm more then pleased at how you represented the TYPE 16 MCV, looks absolutely fabulous!!

Thanks for the support, I'm sure the rest is in order when I get to it.

Again I know some of you might deal with this before it's over but again, I hope not.

We intend to be stronger then it and also know we'll all get through this thing. It is unique to our time.

So I leave you with a reminiscence from my youth below. I think it's better then singing "Happy Birthday" three times in my humble opinion.

Kind of remember this childhood song about something we should all be doing. It goes something like this with a little help from the folks below to maintain your timing, and you ONLY have to sing it twice (I do what I can to help.)...
:party:
WASH, WASH, WASH YOUR HANDS gently in the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. Yes it is! :doh: :p :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat.

Sorry to hear about your wife's friend. You are the first person I know that has known anyone who knew anyone that had Covid let alone die from it.

The TYPE 16 MCV uses the VB1 Centauro / Vextra / Rooikat series of Icons because they are nearly identical top down though the 16's hull should be a bit longer and the front end less angled but at the time I was just looking for something "close enough" and that fit the bill but I *may* give it, it's own Icon.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1586702457

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
We thank you. Like I said given my work environment and her lose, it just brought it all a little to close to home.

I meant what I said about the TYPE 16 MCV. I truly believe we got the stats as good as we can get pending (Which I hope won't be pending at all.) further newer data.

The following might be of some interest from the 3D drawings and some data on the gun and ammo, which I'm sure you already had anyway and might be of some value to others though.
https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/...nt-type-16-mcv

I have set up one of my long campaigns (23 Battles) with my core made up of a platoon each of TYPE 90 and TYPE 16 MCV supported by 2 TYPE 96 Mech platoons with artillery support.

Player 2 & 4 Russia/3 China. First battle against China "Meeting Engagement" jungle environment.

I'll report my impressions in this thread on the TYPE 16 MCV after a handful of battles have been fought.

Hitting the shower, getting "all excited" about that at home haircut to come later today. CINCLANTHOME showed me a picture of Cousin IT from Adams Family walking in the house, caption read
"This is what we'll all look like after the CORNA VIRUS goes away after the barbershops reopen!", can't wait that long and it just wouldn't look good in our BDU's!?! :rolleyes:

Anyway again to all-Happy Easter!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Male pony tails and buns will be the new style!

Re: MBT's
 

First to the last post: That ain't happening!?! :D

I usually get a "Flat Top", but needs to know his business when you get one of those. My Marine "buddy" will appreciate the fact that my barber is a Ret. Marine (Though their really isn't such a thing!) but like the rest of the country, the barbershops are closed.

So after Easter Dinner my son had brought over his clippers and armed with a copy (Front Cover) of the movie "JARHEAD" used the picture of actor Jake G. and followed along.

The end result, I'll be looking "Bxx Axx" when I go back to work tomorrow with "Dam Fine" looking "Jarine" haircut!!!! And of course a professional looking BDU uniform (Thanks CINCLANTHOME!) to boot!!! :cool: :p

So after 6 hours on the phone to straighten out a couple of issues/dinner and a nice walk, I came across the following ref below. Don knows well that over the years if the information shows up, I post any data I get concerning equipment we've worked on together to get the game, when it actually goes into FOC or is so very close, as we don't need to change the dates on it.

This is the case below.

I would direct you first to either this thread Page 94/Post 940 (In 10/19) or The Fastboat Patch Page Thread (TFPPT), Page 24/Post 240 (All reviewed again BEFORE resubmission). Though I believe there were a couple of others involved, the date issue has always been a problem out here (Just look at the three pages and a couple of other separate (One dealing with the K2 PIP) ones in TFPPT almost 90% of what was submitted required a date change at minimum.

So Don join me in a "victory lap" concerning the Russian T-90M, I couldn't got it better if I "Was a fly on the wall"!!

I'm standing by the START, they'll be equipped plenty enough by then based on the ref. below, the "party has started".
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apri...tle_tanks.html

Hard Work/Good Data/Interpolating It/Taking your TIME with it/Drawing a Unemotional but Rational Conclusion of the Data to make a Decisive Decision Concerning it/Then of course being able to convince Don! :D

Going to enjoy the rest of my "off" evening!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

GD has unveiled their entry for the US Army Light Tank Competition:

https://taskandpurpose.com/military-...ics-submission

On Thursday, General Dynamics Land Systems unveiled its light tank candidate for the service's Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program during a visit from Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy to the defense contractor's Detroit facility.

The Army had previously selected GDLS and BAE Systems in December 2018 to deliver 12 MPF prototypes apiece to the service for operational testing and evaluation under two rapid prototyping contracts that totaled more than $750 million.

...

GDLS's MPF offering combines the tried-and-true M1 Abrams turret design with a chassis that's based on designs developed for the company's AJAX family of light armored vehicles.

According to Army Recognition, the turret architecture showcased during McCarthy's visit on Thursday uses a M1A2 Sep V3 fire control system and Commander's Independent Thermal Viewer (CITV) married to an 105 mm cannon and a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun.

....

BAE had in March 2019 showcased an MPF technology demonstrator that, based on the M8 Armored Gun System, comes equipped with an 'Iron First' active protection system, Defence Blog reports.

--------------------------------

It'll all get cancelled! :angel

Re: MBT's
 

Its horrific the cost of US cancelled or delayed military projects is more than many countries defence budget. I particularly love the delays cost by states wanting the jobs in their state.These can easily add 20% to the cost it would have been far cheaper to give the workers benefit. Generating reports for a couple of mil on a problem instead of tackling it is another great one.

Re: MBT's
 

FASTBOAT TOUGH

Pakistan just leacked receiving first of 298 VT4 improved with new FY-IV ERA, claimed at defeating new Tandem Warheads.
Absolutly confirmed by two Pak Army Officers


Credit to @LKJ86 from Chinese Defence Forum Section


Latest VT4 battle tanks delivered to foreign buyer: report
Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2020/4/27 2:24:48


A Thai army's newly purchased Chinese-manufactured VT4 main battle tank deploys during a simulated warfare exercise at the Royal Thai Army Cavalry Center in Saraburi Province, Thailand, in 2018. File Photo: IC


China is delivering two customized VT4 main battle tanks to an undisclosed foreign buyer.

Transported by trucks, two VT4 tanks left for their destination following a launch ceremony, Weihutang, military affairs column affiliated with China Central Television, reported on Friday, citing a video released by the Inner Mongolia First Machinery Group under the state-owned China North Industries Group (NORINCO).

The tanks are not the standard VT4 version and instead are equipped with a different turret boost design. The front design features a new explosive reactive armor, Weihutang said.

This upgraded VT4 offers enhancements with extra protection capabilities, the report said, citing military experts.

Further details on the deal have not been released, such as the purchase amount, overall value, and client name.

Also known as the MBT3000, the VT4 is a new generation of made-for-export combat tank designed for the international market, Weihutang said, noting that it is one of the most popular Chinese weapons available and has been sold to Thailand and Nigeria.

The VT4 is equipped with a 125-millimeter smoothbore gun, can fire armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank cartridges, and missiles with a 5-kilometer range.

Equipped with a China-made 1,200-horsepower diesel-fueled engine and a hydromechanical drive system, the VT4 can travel at a maximum speed of 70 kph and a maximum cross-country speed of 50 kph.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1186834.shtml


Congrats for Pakistan, they get the most latest version of VT-4 MBT



Chinese VT4 tank fitted with FY-IV ERA Explosive Reactive Armour against Tandem Warhead ammunition
POSTED ON FRIDAY, 24 APRIL 2020 15:41


According to new pictures published on April 22, 2020, to the China Defense Blog, the latest version of Chinese-made Main Battle Tank (MBT) VT4 is now protected with new armor ERA (Explosive Reactive Armor) Level FY-4 providing protection against Tandem Warhead ammunition. According to our previous analysis, the first version of the VT-4 MBT was fitted with ERA level FY-2.


Chinese VT4 main battle tank with ERA armor Level FY-IV mounted at the front of the hull. (Picture source China Defense Blog)

The VT4 MBT (Main Battle Tank) is now in service with four armed forces in the world including China, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Thailand. The VT4 also called MBT-3000 is a third-generation Main Battle Tank (MBT) designed, developed and manufactured in China by NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation).

The VT4 MBT was unveiled by the Chinese defense industry in November 2019 during the China International Aviation & Aerospace or Zhuhai AirShow. The layout of this tank is very similar to the Russian tank with a crew of three including driver, commander and gunner and the use of an automatic loading system for the main armament.

The main armament of the VT4 / MBT-3000 consists of a 125 mm smoothbore gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and fume extractor. It is fed by an automatic loader that holds a total of 22 projectiles and charges which can be loaded at the rate of eight per minute. One 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun is mounted to the right of the main armament, while on the commander's cupola is mounted a remote weapon station armed with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun that can be used to engage ground and aerial targets.

The hull and turret of the VT4 are of welded steel construction with a layer of composite armor over the front arc. The first version of the tank was fitted with additional ERA (Explosive Reactive armor) Level FY-2 providing protection against HEAT (High-Explosive Anti-Tank) and APFSDS (Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot) ammunition. According to the latest pictures released on the Internet, the latest variant of the VT4 is now fitted at the front of the hull with ERA armor Level FY-4 providing protection against Tandem Warhead.


Close view of the ERA armor Level FY-IV mounted at the front of the VT4 main battle tank (Picture source China Defense Blog)

Currently, China produces four Level of ERA armour including the FY-I with protection against HEAT ammunition, the FY-II with protection against HEAT, APFSDS ammunition, the FY-III with protection against HEAT, APFSDS and tandem warhead ammunition and the FY-IV providing protection against HEAT, APFSDS and tandem warhead ammunition but with 85 mm thick armour blocks for the FY-IV and only 75 mm for Level III. The ERA armour consists of steel blocks with C4 explosives inside.

Reactive armour is a type of vehicle armour that reacts in some way to the impact of a weapon to reduce the damage done to the vehicle being protected. It is most effective in protecting against shaped charges and specially hardened kinetic energy penetrators. The most common type is explosive reactive armour (ERA), but variants include self-limiting explosive reactive armour (SLERA), non-energetic reactive armour (NERA), non-explosive reactive armour (NxRA), and electric reactive armour.

A high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead is a type of shaped charge explosive that uses the Munroe effect to penetrate thick tank armor. Armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) is a type of kinetic energy penetrator ammunition used to attack modern vehicle armour. As an armament for main battle tanks, it succeeds armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) ammunition, which is still used in small or medium caliber weapon systems.

Tandem warheads are effective against reactive armour, which is designed to protect an armoured vehicle (mostly tanks) against anti-tank ammunition, missiles and rocket. The first stage of the weapon is typically a weak charge that either pierces the reactive armour of the target without detonating it leaving a channel through the reactive armour so that the second warhead may pass unimpeded, or simply detonating the armour plates causing the timing of the counter-explosion to fail. The second detonation from the same projectile attacks the same location as the first detonation where the reactive armour has been compromised. Since the regular armour plating is often the only defence remaining, the main charge (second detonation) has an increased likelihood of penetrating the armour.


Chinese-made ERA armour level (Picture source Twitter)

https://www.armyrecognition.com/wea....mmunition.html

Re: MBT's
 

Fotos during testing in 2018

Re: MBT's
 

What they've done essentially, with the Chinese designations for ERA "FY-4" is add 10mm more, to each of the two armored steel plates that make up the ERA "panel/case". The term used to describe the plates (And please from memory.) is "flyer/orflyers" which when struck, will shift to break up the jets causing disruption to the warhead thus reducing it's penetration into the RHA armor.

Earlier versions and the Chinese model from the ref below in general follows the history of ERA which started with just Steel plates.
Paras 4-6 get to the issue.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap...mmunition.html

There are three other types (That I'm familiar with, NERA, NxRA and SLERA. These have their advantages and many consider them to be better and or superior to ERA. What can't be denied is they're all much lighter. The following covers these in an easy manner, I hope is at the end of the article, you'll see were it's sourced from.

Also though, as I've heard of the technology involved I couldn't remember the names they are also in this article as I've just read it.

So under "Reactive armor technologies under development for battle tanks" you'll find what you want, if you want it.
https://www.asminternational.org/doc...e-e94395d1bb3f

The above comes from the USA Research community, note the sources at the end of each article.

I just don't know yet how much of a difference those 10mm's are going to make a difference. are we talking as a matter of increasing the ERA package as in the game now for the VT-4, by a factor of 10%, 15% or 20% I just don't have the information now to make a "good educated guess". I am pretty sure that it probably won't be more then 20% - 25% at best.

And I'm not "keen" on that 25% until I break out my calculator. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

So they are trying the XM8 AGS again? Wow...they tried once in the 90s with this.

Re: MBT's
 

Regarding French 105mm Guns
French guns are designated “Canon 105mm” or CN105, I suggest in game “CN105mm” this way everyone would understand it is a French gun.
As for sub-types, we have:
- “Gun F1 81”(L/56) for the French AMX30. I suggest the name “CN105mm Mle67” to all of them. Has the OCC F1 Mle60 HEAT round, from 1993-98 it received the OFL105G2 APFSDS and the from 1999 the OFL105F2 DU APFSDS (developed in 1995)

- “CN D1504” (L/44), Argentinian “FTR” is a similar gun made under licence (used by Paraguay too). Also, Austrian SK105 “Gun F 65”. I suggest the name “CN105mm Mle57” to all of them. The Israel “CN D1” (L/51) is D1508 (Chile too). They are all the same guns, accuracy should change to all users from 11 to 14.

- “Gun G1” it’s the “CN105mm Mle57” (L/44) with a modified muzzle brake to fire the new OFL105G1 APFSDS

- “Gun F3 78” (L/48) of the AMX10RC is the “CN105mm F2 78”, it was introduced only in 1981 and its APFSDS OFL105F3 was introduced only in 1987. From 2010 it was updated to AMX10RCR with a new “CN105mm G2” (L/50)
The Argentina SK105A1 in game have a “Gun F3 78”, that’s bad info, all SK105A1/2 have the “CN105mm G1”. The Austrian Army SK105s have “G2” and “G3” guns shown, Brazilian SK105A2S have “G2”, but that’s not right, it was G1 all the time

Re: MBT's
 

MAY TANK NEWS AND YES I'M TRACKING THEM ALL with a couple of extras.

ARGENTINA: The Nahuel DL43 is already in the game. This shows some rare pictures of the tank with an interesting background story.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/nahuel-dl-43/

BRAZIL: Looking for a tank at 50 tons w/ a low recoil 120mm MG. As the poster suggests, the T-84-120 Yagatan (Ukraine) is ready made and has been updated w/ the OPLOT-M FCS for UKRAINE's use as I posted late last Fall. If selected the FCS should look kike THAILAND's OPLOT-T as revised again in the last patch. Also Japan is mentioned in the 2nd ref, I wonder why? :rolleyes:.
http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index...howtopic=44508
(Janes link is dead (Which is what I had.) as I've said those are perishable.)
https://monch.com/mpg/news/land/6884...t-vehicle.html
(This reports a 8x8 FSV as well.)

Also requiring follow-up (Which will probably be fielded first.), BRAZIL is further looking into upgrading their LEO2A5-BR tanks.

CHINA: They have deployed the TYPE-15 in the Tibetan Region, as expected. This tank would be at the forefront of any action against India in that region and surrounding areas due to road conditions in that region.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/may_...et_region.html

ALSO: An older story (AUG 2016) that however due to costs of the TYPE-99 Series of tanks still holds true now. This article is on the what was then to come, the TYPE-96B tank.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/08/meet...ew-tank-force/

CROATIA: This next again as above is just good information that's tracks most of what's known on M-95 DEGMAN it was a newer source I crossed checked against others that had "snippets" of newer data in it. This tank like most from the last submission to the patch was a resubmission from the pervious year that appeared originally ONLY in the MBT THREAD and put "back to together" in the Patch Post Thread as
Parts 1-3 for the last game patch. I made some minor adjustments based on this and newer information to that tank from when it originally was posted the previous year.
https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/...nt-m-95-degman

CZECH REPUBLIC: 30 T72M4CZ will be upgraded by 2023 with new components and electronics to include the FCS among others. Also they be able to fire the new EPpSV-97 APFSDS round that pierces 540 mm of rolled homogeneous armor (RHA) at 2,000 m. I can see this in effect by JUN 2021 with enough units to establish "roughly" a company of these tanks pending no delays or cancellation of the program (COVID-19 is already delaying several armored programs or worse at this time, as will be shown as I post those articles.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/june...s_by_2023.html

It's time "I squared myself away" before I just might not!?! No worries, that won't happen because of you know who!! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

My time has been limited as of late and it's back to work today I endeavor to do the best I can with the time I have, there's lots going on across the Threads I've stated. Going backwards slightly first.

News and Guesses...

CHINA: We start with the TYPE-15, which the PLA plans have 300 of, is to receive an APS System. This will also be offered on the export version VT-4. I found this of interest in ref. 1, "Next to the 105-millimeter tank gun, the [ZTQ-15] is reportedly armed with a 35-millimeter grenade launcher and a 12.7-millimeter machine gun.", I might've missed it as modeled in the game, however, I rather get more information on this.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/chin...ection-system/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu...on_system.html

There has been nothing more on this since ref.2 that's popped up on the APS System. I therefore wish to see more data on this.

FRANCE: Of the 6 major MBT Projects that are on going this will be one of the few we'll actually see get in the game, my thinking at this point is, we'll see the LeClerc XLR in the Summer or Fall of 2021. Also to be addressed, will be improved Armor, FCS and I'm "on the fence" concerning TI/GSR, I see an improvement but, it's more about how much.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu...2019-2025.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/sept...and_force.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/main..._10704171.html

FRANCE/GERMANY: The MBT we won't see, the Main Ground Combat System (MGCS.) MBT. This is a joint venture project started in 2012. The MBT is expected to be available prior to 2035 when it's believed that both the LeClerc and LEOPARD 2 will essentially become obsolete. This is the same tank Poland was trying to get involved with as I've posted on for a little over a year now.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apri..._mgcs_mbt.html

And with that I'm done for now, have a great day!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

With a purpose in mind, for now I'm only going to post this website before I continue with going through my MBT Folder. This website was instrumental in my ability to see the LEOPARD A27 UNIT 267 get into the game. It provided me with definitive "proof of life" they existed to include the unit operating them and some great pictures during an exercise.

It also shows the LEOPARD's currently in service and others as prototypes. This includes and or mentions two that went out of active service in 2004 and 2008 (Though 15 of each would continue in training operations up to 2018.) which of course would be the LEOPARD 2A4/2A5 tanks.

I'm tracking the LEOPARD 2A7V development currently. The first to be updated to the standard will be the LEOPARD 2A7 as they can obviously be upgraded and fielded the fastest. The rest will come from a mix of mostly stored LEOPARD 2A4 rounded out with some LEOPARD 2A6 MBT's.

What's at issue is the modernization was to have started in 2019 running through 2023 for a total of about or slightly less then 250 tanks.

I'm still searching for something more solid to verify this.

I'm going to contact the site owner to see if I can work out a "little something" and see if he has anything more to offer concerning the LEOPARD 2A7V.

Not like I haven't done it in the past, and as some know I have been mostly successful and managed to get the information requested. So a request to their MOD won't be out of the question, I'll just have to gauge/evaluate the situation at the time.
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=148

He has some great shots of the STRYKER 30mm which I'll post under the main site.
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=28
http://tank-masters.de/?cat=4
Stroll down to 21 FEB.
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=810

I remember having issues trying to link back to this site quite awhile back and thought it a dead site. But while looking into the LEOPARD 2A7/A7V a couple of nights back, there it was about 3 pages into my search. It made me a very happy "researcher" knowing it's back in my "tool box".

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

As I turn 41 again for the 20th time, I thought I'd leave you with some news before we're off to Savannah for a couple of days with our masks in hand.

As will happen I occasion, I'll be going backwards to start before picking up where I left off in my last "NEWS" post.

BRAZIL: Well if Turkey can do it so can Brazil, however theirs will be more of an extensive upgrade then Turkeys. LEOPARD 1A5BR fleet to get various upgrades for all 220 tanks. ACTIONABLE
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...ard-1a5br-mbts
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

GERMANY: Old but relevant news. Expansion.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...battalion.html

G1: The LEOPARD 2A6 contribution to the fielding of the LEOPARD 2A7V. This I brought up in my last post. The ref is also indicating the first delivered batch of the 2A7V was to have been handed over by late 2019. Also apparently they are now going to have 329 2A7V tanks vice the original order of 225. Just became ACTIONABLE.

G2. The first LEOPARD 2A6MA2 was turned over in April 2018 as dated in the below ref. ACTIONABLE
https://www.army-technology.com/news...-battle-tanks/
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=6790

G3: This next deals with DENMARK receiving 44 LEOPARD 2A7 tanks by 2022. This also "bleeds over" to the 2A7V, in that the ref offers more supporting data to the upgrade of this model. Based on the current data I hold to this point, I see no reason why we can't just copy the current GERMAN 2A7 over to DENMARKS OOB.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/octo...ttle_tank.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/germ...res_video.html

GERMANY/HUNGRY and QATAR: This doesn't apply to GERMANY, they went the route of the 2A7 and now the 2A7V as noted above. I also provide the following additional info for this section only...
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=264
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=280

What HUNGRY (Will get)/QATAR (Have already) is the "watered down" version, the "giveaway" for me was the following from the first ref...
"The gunner’s station is fitted with an EMES 15 stabilized main sight and a FERO Z18 auxiliary sighting telescope." Germany is beyond that with ATTICA and I believe, SRATUS being the newest FCS which the Germans use.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...o_hungary.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/sept...d_2a7_mbt.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/germ...htmlACTIONABLE TRACK W/SIPRI.

I need some sleep!!

Take Care!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Digital communication and Blue Force Tracking is the only upgrade to the LEOPARD 2A6MA2 and it might be a big deal in RL but it changes nothing in the game

Re: MBT's
 

I concur, I was "sitting on the fence" about it for the same reasons. More an exercise of "testing the winds" when just before going to bed, I flashed back to one of our very first submission "discussions" that focused on an M-60 RISE variant I felt we needed at the time to fill in a RL "tank gap" for historical accuracy.

So yes it's a nice to know thing but, not worth the effort to put it in the game as it has "no added value".

The ability to reflect upon one's action is a gift not to be ignored. ;)

Before I find I have "no added value" I better get off of here and get ready to head up the road!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt: