.com.unity Forums - OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

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narf poit chez BOOM said:
Er, how? At this level, it seems even more important to me to max out as many skill ranks as possible.

Not all skills are equally useful to all classes, and not all skill ranks are equally useful.

For example - Tumble. If you arrange for a +14 modifier (say, 11 ranks, +3 dex), you lose 1d6 falling damage off of every fall. If that's all you're after, that's as high as you need to go. That same modifier will also let you pass by a single enemy at half-speed without provoking on a roll of 1 (extra opponents add penalties). If you want to go through your opponent's square, you'll want a +24 modifier. If you want to go full speed at all times, you'll need an extra +10 on top of that.

But that's modifier, not ranks. At this level, a dedicated rogue could easily manage the +14 to avoid a single AoO from movement, and lose a d6 of falling damage. Even without maximum ranks. It's not an opposed check. He won't usually need maximum ranks at this point, and so can spare a few ranks that would have gone to Tumble to something else.

Take Bluff - it's an opposed check, but very little actually has Sense Motive in any meaningful amount. Jason's got maximum ranks in bluff - and so can bluff basically anything, due to his Charisma modifier - but so far he's used it for little more than flavoring. He could do without it entire.

Take Spellcraft - it's used to identify spells, many effects of magic, and for a Wizard's spellbook scribing. Kaylin has maximum ranks. But unless you're going to be trying to identify unique magical effects, the highest non-Epic DC is for identifying a 9th level componentless spell after making a saving throw (25+spell level, so 34). Kaylin really only needs a +33 to cover it on a roll of 1. Between her Intelligence and her ranks in Spellcraft, she's got a few ranks to spare from Spellcraft, and will exceed that particular task on a roll of 1.

Heal's skill-listed DC's cap out at 15. It's got different DC's for poison and Disease, but I don't use those overly much, so there's very little point in having a Heal modifier over +14.

Now, if you're planning on useing bluff with Improved Feint, then sure, you want maximum ranks, as your opponent gets to use his BAB. If you expect to take a lot of damage while casting spells, then you want maximum ranks in Concnetration. For most applications of Concentration, though, you won't need more than a +23 modifier to Concnetration (15+spell level for casting defensively; a 9th level spell has a casting defensively DC of 24; +23 makes it on a roll of 1). Opposed skills, such as Spot, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, and Bluff are handy to have maxed out - but that's not most of them. At these levels, you can afford to have a few ranks missing from a non-opposed skill to put into something else, whether just enough to give you a roll (e.g., Kaylin having a couple of ranks in EVERY knoweledge skill on her character sheet) or for flavor (Jason actually has ranks in Craft(Alchemy).

Likewise, if you're planning on taking any skills that you don't need in the middle of combat (such as Heal, in a lot of circumstances) then you don't need enough of a modifier to make the DC minus 1 to make it on a roll of 1 - you need enough of a modifier to make the DC minus 10 (for taking 10); so a 15 for a DC of 25. A high-level Rogue with Skill Mastry gets to select some skills to take 10 on even in the middle of a fight.

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narf poit chez BOOM said:
How about some free skill points, for a few oddball skills that aren't raised above 3/4?

No free ranks... but you're perfectly welcome to write into your character background that you won your hometown's woodcarving contest four years running before being banned, and spend lots of time whittling (daggers are cheap, and little chunks of wood can be pulled straight from the forest) regardless of your actual modifier for Craft(Woodworking).