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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
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But in the new role they are amazingly effective, cutting down entire strategy for Lanka (sure, solo Raksharajas can be killed in a number of ways, but this seems to be one of the cheapest and most effective one). |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Lanka is overpowered anyway, I'm not going to cry if their raiders have a relatively cheap counter...
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I'm not going to cry either as I'm playing Lanka for the first time there, made tons of wrong decisions but still think I have pretty good position and clearly see that Lanka is one of the strongest EA nations. However, I think that in Dom every counter should have another counter, and for Shishi, trapezing LfL casters looks almost like no-brainer (as Shishi themselves against demon thugs), except that they have more HP than one LfL cast removes. Which means, with luck pendant you should cast it at least 3 times to get reliable result (better 4). That's why I suggested 40 hp instead of 50. As for the gems cost, well, I think 40 is more appropriate, but it's hard for me to find obvious reasons why 40 and not 30 and not 35. Just my impression of their effectiveness in our game.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
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Having said that, I ran a test with the Sidhe Lord not casting bless. I had to swap out some of the equipment; Black Steel Plate to help with protection and an Amulet of Reinvigoration in the now open slot where the Bracers were. I actually tried to really help the Shishi with this test: the Sidhe Lord used a Vine Shield instead of an Eye Shield, the Shishi cast flight, and the Sidhe Lord didn't have even minor regeneration. Sixth Test Sidhe Lord Equipment: Frost Brand, Vine Shield, Dragon Helmet, Black Steel Plate, Amulet of Resilience, Pendant of Luck Script: Barkskin, Mistform, hold, hold, hold, attack vs. Female Shishi Equipment: Girdle of Might, AoMR, Ring of CR Script: Mirror Image, Mistform, Flight, hold, hold, attack battle 1 - Shishi routed battle 2 - Sidhe Lord routed battle 3 - Shishi routed |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Okay, I am going to reduce the attack of the Shishi by either 6 or 8. Place your votes now.
zzcat, I think you are right - I will nerf the Zmey somewhat, although he will finish closer to his new power level than his old (which was quite useless). I will incorporate the shapechange fixes you noticed, and put the firebreath first as suggested. I'll also fix the shishi's 175 SR while I'm at it. I think I may increase the cost of the Grendelkin from 40 to 50 gems. I'm saying all this because I've run out of time to actually do it tonight, and won't get a chance for a few days, so there is some opportunity for people to comment on the proposed changes. I would also really appreciate it if people had a look at the other summons to see if there are any other concerns. I would like the next version to stand for some time as I think it's best if things don't change too much (how is anyone ever meant to learn tactics if things change all the time?). I've noticed that comments come thick and fast in response to bold claims by people. Hence I make these bold claims: ASYNJA IS OP, HOW ARE YOU MEANT TO CATCH A GLAMOUR SC? WENDIGO IS SLOW TO GROW AND CONSEQUENTLY USELESS NO USE CAN BE FOUND FOR THE STUPID ROC TREANT IS TOO SLOW AND IS WORSE THAN MONKEY PD GRENDELKIN CANNOT BE KILLED |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I vote to reduce Shishi attack by 6.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I still think that Shishis are not OP at all, as Valerius tests show. I wouldn't complain if there were a bit weaker vs undead/demons and stronger than now against normal stuff. I almost lost one to some markata PD + B1 mages last turn :P And you can always drop on them with proper gear and they cannot even run away really...
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I disagree on any lowering of Shishi attack before we get some real data. Valerius's data is the best we have and points to there being no real problem.
Also, a fricking air mage who is summonable with air gems is a godsend for magic diversifying off a pretender. Rocs are fricking awesome - they aren't for air powers, they're for nations diversifying into air. Its like saying Kokythiads are useless because its a WD mage that requires WD to summon - NO. Edit: Zzzcat: Llama's point is a Zmey should kill arbitrarily large armies if the armies don't have mage support. The fact that they actually do so is not a problem. Ie, 'virtually unkillable for normal troops without mage support' is what they're supposed to be. WAD. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
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I think Asynja should probably be left alone for a bit. They are a bit frail as SCs, and though stealth+glamour means it's really hard to catch one, right now in MP games it's looking like they may be sidelined a bit as SCs and end up more as casters. The wendigo right now is in an interesting spot, as an SC available with only 6 in a school. They take a while to grow, but they are still useful before fully grown and while it's a bit painful to have to wait for them, you can have a decent number of them before other people have access to real SCs. I think these need more testing before changes are made to them. Rocs provide access to air magic, as squirrel said, and that definitely makes them not useless! Especially with the siege bonus 30, they should be excellent army support midgame casting fog warriors/wrathful skies/etc in battle, and helping break down walls on the strategic map. The patrol bonus could also be useful in certain situations, though it's not really what I'd buy them for. More of a useful bonus. They are also certainly usable as light raiders earlier on, and counter raiders, which should be able to kill lower end thugs. By the way it is these with the 175 shock resist, not shishis. I think the Treant needs to lose the rooted form, but have the rooted bonuses transferred to the walking form. It is more cool presently in my opinion, but it would be much more usable with this change. Having to root to be an effective fighter could lead to some verious silly scenarios, like the treant trying to rout but not being able to move, so it dies even if it could kill what's attacking it. Also it should probably gain a little AP, or possibly instead 1 more mapmove. One or the other IMO. Grendelkin are awesome but don't have great skill and have no magic or resists. They're definitely killable, it is just very hard. They could maybe lose some strength. Go down by 10 or so. They should be very killable by armies though, and it's hard for them to catch SCs. I'd like to see people use these more before they're changed too much :) |
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