Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

As for specifics on the class....

Agreed, overpowered. Wizard bonus feat progression + Wizard's spell access + much of the Sorceror's flexibility + two stats to DC's? At lower levels, that will work out okay, due to the lower base dc... but once that character gets to the point where both a Headband of Intellect and Periapt of Wisdom are feasable, DC's will get out of control rather quickly. Consider that in order for a normal wizard to increase spell DC's by +2 the wizard must invest in an extra +4 of enhancement to Int (16,000 gp); a Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, or Druid, +4 enhancement to Wis (16,000 gp, again); a Sorceror or Bard, +4 to Cha (16,000 gp); this class, however, needs merely to get +2 to both Wis and Int, at 4,000 gp each (8,000 gp); half the price. For +3, the Elementalist needs to spend only 20,000 (one 16,000 +4 item, one 4,000 +2 item) while the standard spellcasters need a maxed +6 item for 36,000 gp. The Elementalist can get +6 to his spell DC's with two +6 items (granted, for a total cost of 72,000 gp...) while the base casters have no such recourse above their +3 from enhancement bonuses. If the Elementalist manages to start with a 16 in both Int and Wis, sure, 1st level spell DC's will be a bit behind the standard spellcaster who opted for an 18 in something instead (by one point of DC). Not long after those enhanceing items are available, though....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Kaylin isn't much of a spark caster. She's more like a nuclear missle silo...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Roar, watch who you're calling sparkcaster, or I'll use the wrath of my shiny earrings on you.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

No, the real nuclear missile silos are high level Warmages (base class from Complete Arcane). Sorcerer spells per day, pretty much every blasting spell in existence automatically on their spells known list, add their intelligence bonus to spell damage, have a feat that adds another 1 + (level/4) to that bonus, and get Sudden Empower, Sudden Enlarge, Sudden Widen, and Sudden Maximize as bonus feats as they level up (feats also from Complete Arcane, once/day apply the metamagic effect to a spell with no extra preparation or spell level cost). Oh, and once they get to 8th level, they can wear mithril full plate with no spell failure chance.

What's the drawback, you ask? They get exactly two non blasting spells - Light and Continual Flame. That means no Identify, no Haste, no Slow, no Fly, no Teleport, no Analyze Dweomer, no Invisibility, no Dispel Magic, no Stone to Flesh/Flesh to Stone, etc.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Will you stop with using all these books? Let's stick to core books...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

The Complete series is about as core as you can get short of the PHB, DMG, and MM themselves.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Lets just use the SRD...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That sounds like a very cool class... I almost want to play it, but no Analyse Dweomer? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

It's also a very unbalanced class. If I remember right, every round they can unleash an arcane energy bolt, that is not subject to any resistances.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

No, that's the Warlock, and their Eldritch Blast generally only does about 1d6 damage for every two levels, and it's single-target only, so it's really not all that powerful. Also, spell resistance does apply to it.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, but they can do it every round.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

So...At level 6 they are doing 3d6 damage per round.

At level 5, a fighter with a greatsword does 2d6 damage per round, on average. Add in strength bonus and it's 2d6+4.

2 feats at first level, 1 feat at second, 1 feat at third, 1 feat at fourth.

Weapon Focus(Greatsword), Weapon Spec.(Greatsword), Greater Weap. Focus(Greatsword), Greater Weap. Spec.(Greatsword), one empty feat.

+3 To-Hit, which increases average damage by 30%. +6 each hit, for 2d6+10 average, * 1.3 = 12 * 1.3 = 16 damage, average.

The warmage averages 21/2 = 10.5 damage per round.

That ignores spell resistance (Not much, at that level) and weapon enchantment.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

And a fighter can swing his sword every round. Your point? Fighters also get to attack multiple times in the same round when their base attack is high enough. Eldritch Blast is limited to once per round regardless of level.

Also, have you ever seen a high level wizard actually run out of 3rd level or higher spells to cast? At low levels, Eldritch Blast isn't a whole lot better than a crossbow, and is almost certainly quite a bit worse than what the party fighter can do. At high levels, wizards can dish out considerably more damage per round, and can do it for as long as is likely to be necessary unless the DM is really putting the party through a LOT of encounters in a single day.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif
You really shouldn't be saying things like that when the DM is listening....
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xclamation.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

*looks innocent in the background, pretending not to be limited by mere spells-per-day*

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Can we start 2 hours earlier Saturday? At 6:00 EST, I have to go, and I don't want to be NPCed through any plotline stuff like last time.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That's 9:00 PST? Pretty early, but I can probably manage.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Violist: Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of stealthy imps at night and this nifty little external object Wizards are so dependent on....

NullAshton: If everyone else is agreeable.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Eeek, you're not talking about a spellbook theft, are you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Heartless cad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oh, you still maintain any spells you hadn't burned the previous day until they are overwritten in the prepareing process; as long as such a theft doesn't last particularly long, it doesn't cripple the caster too terribly badly, unless it's done a lot or after an exhausting day.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hehe. Well, these imps have to get past me first... And I can hear them from a mile away. Gotta love my listen skill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Back to the wizard's rules of survival: get those big buff physical guys to protect you while you prepare to make the universe sit up and beg. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Not a mile away (by RAW, a mile imposes a +528 DC to listen/spot checks ... which finding someone who is hiding/silent is all about) and there are other demons with better checks; how does a Babau's +19/+19 Hide/Move Silently sound?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Now that I'm getting a little worried, I need to work out some way for Kaylin to become paranoid about her spellbook in-game. In the meantime, who all is planning on playing the campaign NullAshton is thinking about GMing? I'm in, but I'm still debating what to play.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Put your spellbook in your bag of holding when you're not using it, tie the bag shut, and lock it in a chest when you're not awake and carrying it with you. Also, put some Explosive Runes on the spellbook.

Given how important a spellbook is to an adventuring wizard, I'd say you don't need any extra reason to be paranoid about it in character - paranoid protection of the spellbook is the default normal behavior.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Good point that. Could it survive an Explosive Runes detonation? I don't see anything about HP in the srd info.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I also want to get Kaylin to cast the great warping thingie on me before 6 tomorrow.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

You could just leave it to me to protect. I can just sleep on it, and they'd never get it.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That's the time he has to leave. He wants to start at 1pm Eastern, 4pm Pacific.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ummm? Pacific is 3 hours earlier than me. 1PM eastern, 10:00 AM PST. Usually we start at 12:00 PST, noon.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, I thought he said earlier... might have misread it though.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oops, I mess up which direction the time difference is in sometimes. 1 Eastern, 10 Pacific.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Comeon! I want Kaylin to tell physics to go take a walk already with her Great Warping.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Earlier? I'll try to be awake for that.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hehe. I wonder how funny a newt paladin would be.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Instead of Smite Evil, they'd Smite Pondweed...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hehe. Wonder what newty sounds they'd make.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

...I dunno if I can describe it to you...

...Ever watch any godzilla movies?...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Those are newty noises? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Are you SURE you want explosive runes ON your ONLY spellbook? A better option would probably be Instant Summons and several Sepia Snake Sigils which don't damage the book (Jason is to the point where he can emulate the Sepia Snake Sigils for you, as a standard action casting ... if you don't mind a few limitations on the emulated spell). Even better, get a second, maybe a third, and spend some cash to get time in the quick time plane for copying them. That's Wizards Paranoia, not setting the only spellbook to SELF DESTRUCT when read.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Potentially; I'd be inclined to read "durable" as "tough as rock" and give it hardness 8 15hp/inch of thickness; at 1 inch thick, that's 15 HP; tougher than most mundane weapons. Let's see... 6d6 averages 3.5*6=21 points of damage; does Harness apply to Force damage? If so, on average, a Blessed Book would have 2 HP left... of course, if someone is reading the explosive runes, they likely have it open with the pages exposed....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I didn't read the spell carefully enough to notice that the inscribed object isn't protected from the explosion. Perhaps a custom version one level higher that doesn't harm what it's on?

Instant Summons doesn't work very well when "the item is in the possession of another creature". Sure, it tells you where it is, but you still have to go get it and the thief could move before you get there.

The Sigil doesn't trigger until someone tries to read it, which would probably be either never or when the Sorcerer inspects it, and he'd probably take precautions against such things.

Perhaps one of the Symbol spells, set to trigger when an evil creature touches, or maybe looks at, the book?

You could also stow it in a Secret Chest, though you'd have to recast the spell every time you put it away.

Unfortunately, all of the options I've looked at besides explosive runes have expensive material components or foci, ranging from 500 gp for Sepia Snake Sigil to 5050 gp for Secret Chest. If we're willing to spend that much, we could try adding Forbiddance to the existing Permanent Mage's Private Sanctum, but that could get a bit harsh on random curious bystanders who want to investigate the mysterious fog bank or just happen to be too close when we drive the wagon by. Hmm, it's shapeable and I think the volume given is a maximum, not a fixed value; is the wagon at least 10 feet in every dimension?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, and if they self-destruct... Byebye spells. Maybe you could do that while researching http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

At that point you are talking the power level of many of the Symbols; better just to pick one up - Persuasion, sayUnless you prepare some form of Teleport, of course....Same issue with Explosive Runes - but seriously, why does a Sorceror even need to look in a stolen spellbook?Could work, and quite well, at that; of course, they all take SR and have either a Fort or Will save.... which demons and devils tend to have both of in plenty.As well as making sure to retrieve it often....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Took too long editing:

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Whoops, one problem. We're not all the same alignment...

EDIT: Wait, nm, password. What about a neutral good cleric? Then anything good could enter, and any evil would be attacked.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Jason can duplicate the Sepia Snake Sigil for the cost of a 4th level spell slot and a standard action; no MC - Sepia Snake Sigil is Conjouration(Creation)[Force] at Sor/Wiz 3; Jason happens to have picked up Shadow Conjouration at his most recent level gain - which duplicates (with caveats) any Sor/Wiz Conjouration(Summoning) or Conjouration(Creation) spell of 3rd level or lower, and has a components line of V, S - no need for MC's, if you don't mind an extra save and SR; but at that rate, Jason could manage (eventually) to put a Sepia Snake Sigil on every page, individually, if needed, without expending any non-renewable recources.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Still differs along the Law/Chaos axis; there's three positions there, you know.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Bah. Let's just stick to kicking the butt out of any demons we come across.

And... even if it saved, it would still make a loud noise, right? Win win!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Parse error: Makes a loud noise when it saves from getting it's rear kicked out?