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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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I was getting 5-10 provinces and losing 0-8 each turn for like 15 turns against three opponents. I was also taxing many of those at 200% for multiple turns and using the money to get even more Seraphs and plenty more cheap archers to keep reloading. Everything I lost was easily replaced and then some. Everything my opponents lost was gone for good. It was surprisingly easy to overrun my opponents with about 10-20 separate armies composed of one Seraph spamming false horrors plus 5 archers. I lost many of those sacrificial strike forces, but it simply made no difference in the long run. And EVERY SINGLE TIME any one of my three opponents seiged one of my towers, I simply hit him back with a real army composed of my flying pretender, AQs as needed, draconians, hawks, and up to about 20 seraphs and maybe 40-60 archers from many strike forces, which I could fly in from every conceivable direction over amazingly far distances. I never once lost any of my own towers. Even better, it was typically easy to cut off the retreat path with my annoying fliers and poof any enemy who might have survived the battle. Strategic flying is definitely overpowered. I have been on the receiving end of this strategy more than once and the dishing end but this one time. It is far more pleasant to be doing it than having it done to you. |
Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
I'd completely agree with Panther.
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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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It's phases like 'fastest researching nation', 'draconians, hawks, and up to about 20 seraphs and maybe 40-60 archers', 'supreme advantage' that do. Whom was he plaing against? Someone with neither a clue, a long term plan, nor even superficial knowledge of Caelum's tricks. One thing's for sure. I have never had a problem with fighting Caelum when I have played Pythium, Vanheim or C'tis. I hate Jotunheim, but I think that they would also easily deal with Caelum. Yes, Caelum is among the top nations, especially if diplomacy is forbidden, but I stopped played them when I realized how limited they are in the late game. The one time I have fought a strong Caelum nation with Vanheim, I was winning only one battle in three, but six turns after the war started, he did not have a castle that could produce anything... and he had not killed a single mage of mine. Afterward, a few cold immune Vanadrotts trapezed on top of his province-taking squads, and he went AI. Do not get me wrong. On a small map, or with clear teams, I would like to play Caelum. But on a decent sized map with ten players, I would pick a race with no glaring weaknesses, and that excludes Caelum. |
Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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In particular, Ulm had no chance. His smiths always targeted his own troops once the horrors appeared. His best strategy was scripting fire shield on his commanders where he could. Jontunheim did quite a bit better, simply due to the sheer Lasting power of the infantry plus bane lords. Surprisingly enough, the seraphs frequently switched to frozen heart against the bane lords and Jontun infantry once the script ran out, which was very good. Arco was a rookie in his second MP game, that much was true. He could have beat me with the astral mind spells which ignore the horrors. But he had too many priests and not enough astrologers. Still, at most, I can see losing some archers in a big battle. Certainly not 20 seraphs. Especially since Caelum can get false horrors so very quick if they want. Most specific counters take a lot longer to research than Caelum going straight to Alt 6. Also, the seraphs are so incredibly cheap for their power that Caelum will always have more fighting mages than any other race. I will agree that Caelum becomes somewhat limited late game, but I have not played past about turn 70 in any MP game as yet. |
Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
Just to chime in - on the one paw, I'm not sure Caelum is all that overpowered. But on the other, I'm not sure that it's all that limited in the late game, given a well designed pretender. I suspect it's a top-5 nation if not top 3. False Horror : Overrated, imo - Seraphs using lightning bolt and/or frozen heart are about as effective. Wrathful Skies - in my first two Caelum games, I haven't used it a single time. Both games I've one of the top two nations, without _ever_ using WS, and both games are post turn-50 now. I even had my pretender killed fairly early in one by a blitch (a B of a glitch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) which he is still crippled from, and in that game, turn 70ish, I haven't even found any good sites - enchantresses are the only recruitable non-nation mages I have. ( Spectres, Lamia Queens, etc, compensate quite well and don't require any luck in finding sites. ) If I hadn't used my somewhat limited charm and tact to manage some diplomacy, I wouldn't be a prime challenger in either game, despite the "huge" benefit of Caelum, and the decent benefit of being a strong intermediate player. So - given that the game is meant primarily for MP, if all nations are supposed to be 100% equal, Caelum might get tweaked down. Then again, stronger players might let ... newer players have the nations like Caelum, Pythium, Arco, Atlantis and R'lyeh; maybe the Jotuns too and Vanheim. This lets the fresh blood experiment with the mightier nations, and allows the old dogs to prove that nation doesn't count for all that much by crushing them with Ulm and T'ien C'hi. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Something that might be nice, though, would be a game setting tweak that could be used to give a bonus / hindrance to a particular player. Say I get a 10% penalty to research and upkeep, while Cohen gets 20% extra gold, gems and research. Something like that might make mixed games with newbies and pros more interesting. |
Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
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