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Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Everybody should go to #se4 at some point. It is a fun (and occasionally productive) place to be!

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

An idea to balance offense vs. defense (and PD vs. ftr/skr/sat to boot!)

Cut ALL entries in the data files that affect to-hit chances in half. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

This means:
1. Reduce base to hit chance at point blank (in settings.txt) from 100 to 50
2. Reduce to hit chance reduction per square distance from 10 to 5 (so weapons over range 4 are still useful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
3. Reduce offense and defense bonuses/penalties of hulls by half
4. Reduce to-hit bonuses of base mounts by half
5. Reduce to-hit bonuses of Combat Sensors to 12/22/32
6. Reduce defense bonuses of ECM to 10/20/30
7. Reduce defense bonuses of Scattering/Stealth Armor to 3/5/8
8. Reduce to-hit bonuses of certain weapons (WMG, PDC, HEM, etc.) by half\
edit: 9. Reduce offense and defense bonuses/penalties for planets and seekers in Settings.txt (yes, planets DO get an offense bonus, that's why your WP's always seem to hit! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif )
edit: well, maybe not the defense penalty for planets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
And anything else I may have forgotten - essentially, do a global search for "Combat To Hit" in the data files and edit those lines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

These changes essentially have the effect of reducing the chance for any attack to hit by one-half (not 50%, but one-half - a 70% to hit becomes 35%, not 20%). This way, ships survive longer in combat and the weapons that go over 99% and get cut off (PDC? WMG? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) get toned down to something in the 50%-99% range.

Of course, this would make the Talisman even MORE powerful but I'm assuming we're going to balance it in some way anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ July 28, 2003, 00:44: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

That is an interesting pic in your sig there Ed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Yeah, I figure, I come up with all these cool ideas for mods but I never get around to implementing them, so I might as well make something of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Phew, managed to read the pages I missed since Last wednesday... A whole lot of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I've another suggestion for the PPB: make it do half damage against shields? I don't know how it works but I'd guess it wouldn't cut it's damage in half when skipping normal shields would it? I for one want it as a sort of a niche weapon since it's special. Making it do half damage against shields would mean it would still be very very deadly against ships with normal shields but would tone it down against phased shields. It should also be changed to improve more steadily as has been suggested. Along with the idea of getting phased shields at the same time with normal shields instead of getting phased shields after researching all the normal shields this would make PPB's a choice, not a substitute for the APB.

Some Posts ago a suggestion was made that the talisman could replace combat sensors for religous players. This way you could have multiple tech levels of the talisman and religious players could get them earlier. If combat sensors give 25/45/65 bonus maybe talisman could also be three levels and have bonuses of maybe 45/75/105 or something? Comments on this? Also, it wouldn't cripple the AI would it?

I also have to vote that the big guns like WMG, acid, HEM, tachyon cannon get range increases, maybe some to-hit bonuses. Just make them have longer range and differ a bit from each other, like some having better damage/kt/turn, some better to-hit and some faster re-load. Torpedoes could be their baby-brother, having a range of 8 at max tech and having better damage/kt/turn.

I like the idea of the graviton hellbore skipping all shields. It makes the ship implode right? Maybe shields shouldn't protect against this?

Damn, I'm beginnning to post frequently on these forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ July 28, 2003, 11:40: Message edited by: Lurk4ever ]

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Quote:

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The problem is emissive dosen't stack.

It kind of does. The first 30 points are taken off the damage when it hits the first Emissive Armor III. Let's say it goes over that, and has enough left to destroy the remaining 50 points of actual structure. Then it hits the next Emissive Armor III and 30 more points are taken off, before the shot is allowed to damage the next Emissive Armor III.

This makes each 20 kiloton Emissive Armor III equivalent to a 10 kiloton Armor III in protection per kiloton, with the added bonus of negating some trailing damage now and then. Of course, it's significantly more expensive, so I wouldn't use it on suicidal ships or Weapon Platforms. As well I'm not sure the Emissive ability works on WPs.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[ July 28, 2003, 14:52: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

In SE3, it did.

In SE4, the highest Emissive ability of the ship is used, no matter which component is hit.
(For damage types that don't skip armor)
It works similarily to Crystalline armor, really.

[ July 28, 2003, 14:58: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Quote:

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Given the above, a token improvement for levels 4 to 6 would look better than exact duplicates.

A token mprovement for them, and an overall hp/kT improvement for all armor, would be best.

Here's a possible suggestion:

<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component ... Old HP ... New HP ... Net Research cost
(Medium)
Armor I ... 30 (3.0/kT) ... 30 ( 3/kT) ... 55,000
Armor II ... 35 (3.5/kT) ... 40 ( 4/kT) ... 65,000
Armor III ... 40 (4.0/kT) ... 50 ( 5/kT) ... 87,500
Armor IV ... n/a ... 60 ( 6/kT) ... 127,000
Armor V ... n/a ... 80 ( 8/kT) ... 199,500
Armor VI ... n/a ... 100 (10/kT) ... 289,500

Note, the cost includes the cost of Chemistry(1) at 50,000.</pre><hr /></blockquote>Compare this with shields:

<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component ... Old HP+SP ... Net Research cost
( Medium )
Shield I ... 30+50 ( 2.7/kT) ... 60,000
Shield II ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ... 80,000
Shield III ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ... 125,000
Shield IV ... 40+225 ( 6.6/kT) ... 205,000
Shield V ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ... 330,000
Phased I ... 40+75 ( 2.9/kT) ... 510,000
Phased II ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ... 755,000
Phased III ... 40+225 ( 6.6/kT) ... 1,075,000
Phased IV ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ... 1,480,000
Phased V ... 40+375 (10.4/kT) ... 1,980,000

Note, the cost includes the cost of Physics(1) at 50,000.</pre><hr /></blockquote>With that said, I think that a few things should be fixed. The Shield Generator I component is the ONLY 30kT shield generator. IMO, it should be upped to 40kT, with 40kT structure, to maintain the pattern.

As well, Shield IV and V have greater increases in shieldign levels compared to prior levels. I think they should be adjusted to 200 and 250, respectively.

OTOH, the entire progression fo Shield tech and components could be changed:

<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component ... New HP+SP ... Net Research cost
( Medium )
Shield I ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ... 60,000
Phased I ... 40+50 ( 2.3/kT) ... 80,000
Shield II ... 40+200 ( 6.0/kT) ... 125,000
Phased II ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ... 205,000
Shield III ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ... 330,000
Phased III ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ... 510,000
Shield IV ... 40+400 (11.0/kT) ... 755,000
Phased IV ... 40+200 ( 6.0/kT) ... 1,075,000
Shield V ... 40+500 (13.5/kT) ... 1,480,000
Phased V ... 40+250 ( 7.3/kT) ... 1,980,000

Note, the cost includes the cost of Physics(1) at 50,000.</pre><hr /></blockquote>This would make unphased shields better, for the same comparative level of component, in terms of SP generated, and total effective hp/kT. Of course, it's then rock-paper-scissors WRT PPBs, APBs, and the like: do you want more SP but vulnerability to PPBs, or, do you want less total SP but the ability to stop PPBs with your shields?

It might also serve to nerf PPB without changing that weapon at all, as the first phased shields (albeit weaker than unphased) would be available for a total of only 80,000 research points, rather than the current 510,000 cost.

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

My suggestions (lots of them has been mentioned earlier by others but without exact numbers):

Different component families to normal and phased shields (doesn't affect to computer, easier to upgrade ships if using normal shielding)
Supply Storage: double the amount of supply stored and count as a cargo space (ridiculous that an engine can store more supply per kT than a supply storage)
Massive Shield Depleter and Massive Ionic Disperser: +100% to hit (only one hit per combat so it should hit)
Ship and Fleet Training Facilities system wide, only 1% per turn, max 10/15/20 (only one effective per system)
Psychic training centers 1/2/3 max 10/15/20
To hit modifiers to weapon description (one dummy-ability which describes the modifier)
Citizen Databank Complex and System Citizen Databank: intelligence 1 for tech area required (when playing without intelligence those facilities won't appear then)
Massive Planetary Shield Generator: 30000 shield generation
Medical Lab: prevents level 1/3/5 plagues instead of 1/2/3
One-resource bonus facilities should have 20/40/60 bonus
Scanners:
Temporal/Psychic: half the size and costs -> 20kT and 750/0/250
Hyper Optics: double the cost (3000/0/1000)
Gravitic sensor: no changes
Tachyon sensor: level 3 tachyon sensor scanning level from 4 to 5 -> the only sensor which see through the red system-wide storm. Level 5 scanner will also see mines though in their description says it prevents level 5 scans. Perhaps mines' cloaking should be rised.

Some comments please!

Re: SE4 Stock Balance Mod

Quote:

Originally posted by Pax:
Here's a possible suggestion:

I wouldn't improve the armor so much. You should remember that Shield Depleter is extremely powerful weapon. Just include a few of them and all of enemy's shields will be gone very quickly. So if an armor and a shield have the same HP/kT I'd rather choose the armor (unless I'm facing a crystal race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )