Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

Thank you very much Kwok.
Now I should be able to continue my games at last.
Could you please post the AI source scripts for these 1.09 AI files too?
Thank you again.

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

The scripts are exactly the same as the previous v1.09 scripts, but with the 3 fixes required in the Script_AI_Politics file.

Replace the system function at lines 2118, 2324, and 3970 with the following:

2118, 2324: call Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, from_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

3970:
Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, to_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

That should save you some time.

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

Thank you Kwok. Indeed this is exactely what I needed.

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

Tried it with the BM 1.09 Amonkrie script and still got these errors when I used the parser to compile the scripts:

Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Did not recognize section "from_plr".
Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Bad Call - Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, from_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)
Could not parse Amonkrie_Main_Script.txt (line #239): Unmatched Forward Function for reply_to_general_request

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

Oops...

For 2324: call Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, to_plr, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

New try, new errors:

Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Unrecognized word sys_empire_log_get_package_selection_list(entity_t ype_empire,
Could not parse Amonkrie_Main_Script.txt (line #239): Unmatched Forward Function for reply_to_general_request

Wouldn't it be possible you post the entire AI.Politics.txt file?

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

It looks like you're just missing the "call" prior to the function.

I would post the file, but I don't have it with me.

Re: Balance Mod v1.09 PBW Patch
 

Kwok that was it!
Now the parser could compile the files successfully.
Thank you very much.

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

Just running the final tests for v1.11 now. If all goes well, should be posting the update tomorrow morning. There's about 20 or so fixes and additions for the update, including a few nice AI tweaks.

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

Some AIs are still using mixed direct fire weapon/missle weapon designs for light cruisers. And above, presumably.

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

Say, TakAhLah and I are having trouble getting a PBW game started... it's an EOTU game between me and Gusset where TakAhLah is the host, and I can't seem to load the first turn. I tried reinstalling Balance Mod, and TakAhLah tried reinstalling SE5, reinstalling the Balance Mod, and creating a new GSU file (the one we originally used was for SE5 v1.44 and an equally old version of Balance Mod), but still no luck. The error I'm getting is that the data files don't match, and I can't continue the game. Have you run into this before, Kwok? I know in 1.44, we'd get that error all the time but at least we could bypass it - is SE5 just being to scrupulous about checking timestamps and stuff, or did we do something wrong?

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

You might not have the same version of 1.10, download it again.

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

I had some strange AI behaviour with 1.10 - did you with the diplomacy files?

First AI to surrender to me was a minor nation around turn 80.
Wasn't that strange, though - they were at war with me and an even bigger AI on another front, I had already an outpost in their (home) system and shot down their last FF. To surrender was a logical decision, as the outcome was inevitable.

But now, on turn 102, the Jraener surrendered to me - but we weren't at war with each other, and never have been. I was rated 6th and they 7th (of 18 players). They had in fact more system colonized then me, and vastly more research, I suppose due to an advantageous research-sharing treaty with one of the 2 Ueber-AI (which had a very good start it seems).

While this is a interesting alternative to the usual 4X-game-genocide, I think they shouldn't surrender that easily. Treaties, yes, alliances, sure, but surrender should require at least a state of war with at least one player of better rating?! They were at war with 8th (my neighbour, whom I have trade treaty with), 11th and 14th rated player and AFAIK weren't in any danger!?

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

Surrendering should also require a small number of colonies left, I'd say. Ideally there'd be some way of calculating how the war has been going, but I suspect that'd be a major task.

Re: Balance Mod Updates
 

It was actually a script error. You could have asked any empire to surrender on a given turn and had a 50% chance that they would.

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Greetings!

Version 1.11 of the Balance Mod is now available. It fixes a number of v1.10 bugs and makes a number of AI improvements. Perhaps the most important is the AI's consideration of other player's relations with their allies and enemies. It's save game compatible with v1.10.

Next up on the agenda is implementing the AI's alliance diplomacy scheme!

Download:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

History:

Version 1.11 (28 October 2007)
------------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in Miltia amounts
2. Fixed - Error in restrictions for "Only One Per" components
3. Fixed - The Units-Fighter minister was not being used
4. Fixed - Medium and Large Freighters were not advancing their hull sizes properly
5. Changed - Returned maximum trade amounts to default values
6. Changed - Trade will increased at a rate of 0.5% per turn
7. Fixed - Error in tech area requirements for Mine Layer component
8. Fixed - Sometimes ship weapons with low damage would not damage a planet
9. Changed - Increased the combat movement bonus for Afterburners
10. Changed - Removed fighters and troops from target types for Small Rocket Pods and Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes
11. Fixed - Some Stellar Ability Types were not being applied
12. Changed - Boarding attacker strength adjusted to 4:1 versus normal crew members
13. Changed - Reduced effect of research points on score
14. Changed - Tweaked population happiness effects and levels for anger states
15. Fixed - The Defensive minister style was not working correctly
16. Fixed - Sometimes the AI would design Small Drones without weapons
17. Changed - A weaker AI will seek peace
18. Added - The AI will consider other player's relations with their allies/enemies for anger
19. Changed - The AI won't try and build so many units when they are poor in resources
20. Fixed - Error that increased the Refining Colony value threshold when low on radioactives
21. Changed - Increased AI's overall demand for ships
22. Fixed - Error prevented AI from making changes to their treaties with other players
23. Fixed - The AI was sometimes breaking treaties when one didn't exist
24. Changed - The minister for population transports is now functioning much better
25. Changed - Improved the AI's distribution of remote unit defenses
26. Fixed - The AI was not colonizing when the game starting at maximum tech
27. Fixed - The AI was surrending more often then they should
28. Updated - AI Scripts

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Thank you very much, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Nice work, as usual Kwok.

BTW, does anyone know if the Highest Percentage Score victory condition is working yet?

Also, speaking of alliances, what happens if you have every empire in the game under one alliance, does that count as a sole survivor victory? If not, a "Unify the quadrent" victory condition might be a nice addition, if Aaron could be persuaded...

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Thank you Kwok for your continuous excellent work and especially for posting the AI scripts too!

Just a quick feedback regarding unit designs at full tech:

- troops lack ecm and combat sensors.
- there is no recon sat design.
- attack drones have direct fire weapons but no combat sensor.

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Did you notice if it was the Light Troop design without ECM/CS?

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

Not only. The large "normal" troops too. And depending on the race the heavy troops also. I guess you included too many weapons and there is no space left for the ecm and combat sensor. The same seems to happen for attack bases which too lack ecm and combat sensors.

Re: Balance Mod v1.11 Available!
 

sorry if this has been asked, but can i install this update or even the normal game patches while in the middle of a game, or will i have to start a new one? thanks.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Most of the time, you can safely patch your copy of SE:V and have no problems continuing with saved games.

Specifically for the Balance Mod, most versions are save game compatible with earlier versions of the mod. A version that is not compatible with earlier versions, will install to a new folder within the GameTypes folder. For example, Balance Mod versions 1.05 to 1.09 were all compatible and installed to the folder "Balance Mod v105+", while v1.10 was not and installed to the folder "Balance Mod v110+".

Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Thanks for 1.11; I was looking forward to it. Some comments and questions:

1) As far as I can tell, mine maintenance reduction is not working, but I can't figure out why. I put maintenance reduction on the warheads, too, but it didn't help. It works fine on bases. Is there a hard-coded 5% minimal maintenance limit somewhere, regardless of any reductions?

2) Small mines are strictly better than medium (and etc): They are cheaper per unit damage, being less than 66% the cost; they are harder to detect (at least, they are at mine tech 4 and 5); and they are harder to sweep per kT. Since mine layers have no per-turn limit, I see no reason to go beyond small 3.

3) (as of 1.10) The computer may research advanced mines and warheads; I'm not really sure. But even late in the game, around turn 200, it still seems to build hordes of mines using the small mine 1 body, which I can easily see with basic scanners. So... either it never researches mines, or never upgrades the design, but essentially uncloaked mines are not very devious.

4) (as of 1.10) Most AI planets had mines in orbit. However, I attacked several AI planets that had mines in cargo, but none in orbit. Maybe they were waiting for a cargo ship to pick them up, but it certainly made my attacks easier. They launched the mines in combat, of course, but they don't do anything - you can fly right over them and they don't trigger.

5) The 1.11 AI seems very happy to make treaties now. TOO happy. Every turn I get bombarded with messages requesting some changes in my existing treaties, which is really tedious and annoying. Could you perhaps make the AI a little more content, so that a given empire won't try to renegotiate treaties more often than ever 20 turns or so? With 10 treaties, I get 1-3 renegotiation requests every turn.

6) The AI is VERY happy to propose and accept tech-sharing treaties. Unfortunately, I thought that disabling the "Allow exchange of technology through gifts and trade" would prevent this. It doesn't. So... is there any way to turn off tech-sharing treaties? Unlike 1.10, games now end up with a big blob of friendly empires, all at the same super-high tech level, and the unfriendly empires stagnating with relatively low tech. The player can either join the big happy tech alliance and coast along with no reason to research anything (since it will just be shared), or refuse to sign tech-trading treaties and get hopelessly far behind, despite spending 5x the research of anyone else. Which unfortunately makes the game very unfun for me.

7) Small Cluster Bombs and Rocket Pods are similar or identical in damage, cost, size, reload time, supply/ordnance. But Rocket Pods have a wide variety of targets, and Cluster Bombs don't... moreover, Rocket Pods are 10% the size and 50% the damage of Capital Ship Missiles, while Cluster Bombs are 25% the size of Planetary Napalm and 10% of the damage. So, Cluster Bombs have seemingly no reason to exist with their current stats (and those of the rocket pods).

8) Were you still planning to increase the price of colony modules?



Overall the AI in 1.11 seems better, in terms of initial expansion, building ships, and building research facilities... but I have a slow, old computer and not too much free time so I'm not too far along in testing it yet.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

1. There's no limit I know of.

2. There's actually a 100 per sector limit (although it's not enforced for the AI, and maybe not humans). With the limit, the larger mines deliver more oomph.

3. They are probably older mines. There's not really anything in place to tell the AI to scrap old mines, unlike the other unit types.

4. Mines used to detonate in combat. But yes, planets will sometimes horde mines for Mine Layers to pick up.

5. It's actually set to a 1-in-15 chance to make changes to a treaty.

6. The tech option is not disabled by that setting, so there's not much that can be done. For most AIs, if there's not really to be angry, they don't get angry.

7. Cluster Bombs were supposed to get a boost last version as Planetary Napalm did (since damage versus facilities for damage types was cut to 50%) but I forget.

8. Not really. You can always make that change yourself if you want.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Regarding mines and sats: The AI launches them around colonies which is good. However there seems to be no distinction between colonies in front systems and colonies that are far away from any enemies and therefore sats and mines are not useful in these places.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

It's easier to be prepared than to try and prepare when an enemy starts attacking - at least for the AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

So... since mine hulls declare a 50% maintenance reduction, but it actually does not work... would you mind passing that bug along to MM?

OK, that makes sense. But of course, it is an entirely artificial and unrealistic limitation. Personally, I use medium mines to conserve processing power, but against a human opponent, I wouldn't.

Hmmm... let me rephrase that. All AIs were still ACTIVELY LAYING Small Mine 1 - class mines at turn 200. So I strongly suspect they were still building them. Personally... I never use Small Mine 1 technology, period, since they can become somewhat irrelevant so easily, and the next level is so cheap and so much more resistant to basic sensor tech advance.

I hate to ask for individual attention, but would you please be so kind as to either tell me or point me to a link where I can learn where this number is located?


I have to differ. I launch defensive mines and satellites in ALL systems. The computer should, too - not just because it is easier to code, but because of timing... for example, a fleet with 15 movement can easily attack a major planet from two systems away, with only 1 or two turns warning. Leaving that planet undefended would be criminal negligence. Furthermore, stealth is always a possibility... and if only the borders are defended, it allows the destruction of every interior system, uncontested. Not to mention warp-point openers. A strong border defense strategy are useful ONLY for warp points, not planets, and mainly before warp point openers appear. Generally, I promote a strategy of planetary static defense proportional to planet value, regardless of location... and if the computer does not follow such a strategy, I will exploit its folly.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

I check the maintenance on mines in a couple of my games and it looks roughly like the 2.5% I would expect.

The mines could be leftover ones in storage as well. Although I know that warhead/mine research after the first level lags a bit, depending on the overall situation.

The 100 mines limit is more of a game play thing, nothing would be worse than a player dropping thousands of mines at a location.

You'd have to edit Script_AI_Politics (line 2858) and re-compile the script files. The source files are available at my website.

Wiki reference for scripting:
http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.p...ting_%28SEV%29

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Is it normal for every last AI to cancel their treaties with you on the SAME turn?

Oh, for an AI that actually remembers a player has been an ally since the beginning of the game, and doesn't turn on the player for prospering.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

I second this.
The AI is way too happy to get everyone into a big intersettling-and-common-research treaty. Or maybe relations get "amiable" too easily, dunno. However, it doesn't make sense if I have shared system view of all systems in a large galaxy on turn 48 just because I didn't refuse that treaty with one AI accidently ...

All in all, though, I find the mod very enjoyable and quite an improvent over the base game. Thanks.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Sounds like you triggered the mega evil settings.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Is there a way to mod-out the mega evil settings?

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

There is a line in settings.txt:

AI Uses Mega Evil Empire := True

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

The problem IMO with the AI launching sats and mines from all colonies is the maximum number of units in space. The AI may very well reach this limit and then be unable to launch any units just in places where it would be needed most. Of course 2 or 3 systems away from the enemy defensive units around colonies make sense, but 10 systems away on the other side of the map is not effective. You still can have some weapon platforms as defense against some ships that may be translocated by a random event. Stealth ship however should never be able to get to your core systems: that is the job for minefields on warp points to prevent.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

[quote]
Arralen said:
I'm very happy with the diplomacy AI. Ideally, the AI's wouldn't propose such comprehensive treaties so soon, but apart from that there's a range of personalities which seem to be taking into account the power of your empire and your relations with the rest of the galaxy in the way they interact with you, leading to a decent mix of allies and enemies (provided you get the right empires in your game).

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

The AIs are actually sorted into 4 personality groups for random selection, but it doesn't look like the values (random player personality grous) in settings.txt are being used.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Kwok do you know why no recon sat design is created?
In the script everything seems there for this design.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

There was a small error in the routine that affected Recon Satellites and Medical Ships. Both are working now.

In Script_AI_DesignCreation, If you replace:

Line 2505: set comp_id := Sys_Get_Best_Component_With_Ability(sys_long_Playe r_ID, comp_abil)

with...

if (comp_name <> "") then
set comp_id := Sys_Get_Component_With_Name(sys_long_Player_ID, comp_name)
else
set comp_id := Sys_Get_Best_Component_With_Ability(sys_long_Playe r_ID, comp_abil)
endif

It'll be fixed.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Thank you Kwok, that worked at least partially:

The recon sats have now two basic sensors and one tachyon sensor, which is not very useful.
And attack drones have tachyon sensors too. Is this intentional?

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Not sure how you got Attack Drones to add tachyon sensors... I tried all 3 drone sizes and didn't see tachyon sensors added...

The double basic sensor was because I forgot to tell you about another line to change, but since then I deleted it, because it wasn't needed.

The attached file should work ok.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Nitpick: AIs seem to use rather a lot of support and resupply ships now, larger fleets have as many freighters as combat ships.

Re: Mines, Treaties, and Cluster Bombs
 

Thank you again Kwok: now the recon sats are o.k.

One suggestion: you use stealth and scattering armor but not emissive armor in your designs. I defined another "emissive armor" variable and included this in the AI design file. As far as I see now, I can make AI designs use all 4 (non racial) armor types together.

Re: Balance Mod
 

I typically use 3 of the 4 normal armor types. The actual choices vary by empire. It was mostly a hedge for smaller ships at the time.

Re: Balance Mod
 

BM version 1.11 log:
10. Changed - Removed fighters and troops from target types for Small Rocket Pods and Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes

In my game I launch an troop invasion on Cue Cuppa's planet. He send tons of troops with small-APB which cannot target troops now. That would be strange but anyway I got that planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

Yeah, that was a mistake. It should have been Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes (which is still targeting troops and fighters) and not Small Anti-Proton Beam. Last time I do a search with a partial string. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

Are there supposed to be six levels of warp point creator?

Re: Balance Mod
 

Yes. They increase in the maximum distance you can make a warp point to.

Re: Balance Mod
 

I've recently started a new BM 1.11 game and noticed that the descriptions of seeker attributes do not match their actual attribute very well. The Seeking Parasite, Power Lamprey, and Crystalline Torpedo are described as moving at 40 km/s but actually move at 50 km/s for example. (And, btw, shouldn't a 'torpedo' be much faster than a 'missile' type seeker?) The damage resistance formula for the CSM is different between the description and the actual attribute, as well. Apparently this will only result in a slight (and not increasing) error in this case. Maybe you should check all the various description formulas and make sure they are in synch.

Re: Balance Mod
 

I thought I updated the descriptions when I boosted the missile speeds a few versions ago. Oh well.

Torpedoes are generally faster than missiles, with the exception of the Crystalline Torpedo.