Re: Proposition 46
 

"that voted in favor of this proposition." Ermor voted AGAINST the proposition.

though he has a prop up, currently, to rectify his no vote, so maybe in the future it will be legal, I'm not sure the effect will be retroactive.

Its not a grievance, its just how the law is written. Masterblaster, LISTEN TO THE LAW! Of course it is up to the attacked nation to pen up a prop to recognize you as rogue, otherwise you two can work it out on your own, and you need not be declared rogue.

mistakes have been made and rectified in the past -- or they can result in being rogue, like they did for machaka.

Re: Proposition 46
 

The effect would not be retroactive, but I don't think it matters for this case. As I read it, the "that voted in favor of this proposition" clause refers to "Ulm or any Pretenderate or Nation" - that is, 39ers are allowed to attack *anyone* who attacks Ulm or any other 39er. Of course, if the nation you're attacking is ruled by a Wyrm who is himself a 39er, you leave yourself open to attacks by other 39ers. Ermor, however, is not a 39er (yet?) so I'm not on the "open season" list.

I wasn't serious about the grievance bit, just some friendly ribbing... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Proposition 46
 

I have read the chapter closly and have arrived at an unexpected conclusion.

Anyone is allowed to attack a province with a fort under siege.

"Any attack by any nation upon a province (or a group of provinces) controlled by another nation must first be cleared by the Council. You may state your case before the Council, and you should try to be as persuasive as possible."

"Provinces with one player owning a fort and another player owning the province remain contested until one nation controls both. Either side can commit any forces in such situations until ownership becomes clear."

Since noone is controlling the province you are free to attack it. I think this is a misstake from when the charter was first written.

I think I will put up a proposition to remove that loophole from the rules later, and return the provinces that belongs to Vanheim.

Re: Proposition 46
 

I don't think that's a clear loophole... The way I read the charter, and the way I think people have been understanding it, is that a province that is contested is controlled by both players, and so either can commit forces - but a third party cannot attack that province, unless that third party has a right to attack one or the other controlling nations.

So, I don't think anything needs fixing, there. Of course, y'all might disagree...

Re: Proposition 46
 

I think Ygorl's interpretation of Prop 39 is correct. Also, I don't think a proposal can have a retroactive effect unless it explicitly provides.

Pasha

Re: Proposition 46
 

yeah it does read that way, on further investigation. I totally read it wrong.

Re: Proposition 46
 

Well, if it is as you say, you attack a province control among other by vanheim and you should be decleared rouge.

Re: Proposition 46
 

An interesting interpretation of the law, and one I hadn't thought of. In that case, the right to make war (granted by a proposition) would extend only to provinces controlled *exclusively* by the allowed opponent(s). In which case, one could become immune to attack (at least in castled provinces) by getting a buddy to keep a scout besieging each of your provinces. You'd lose half your income, true, but that might be better than losing your castles...

I don't think that makes as much sense, though; more sensible to me is that the right to make war not be susceptible to such tricks. If I'm allowed to attack you, I'm allowed to attack you in any province where you've got a presence, regardless of anyone else who might be around. This also seems in the spirit of the charter, which explicitly allows for a contested province, no matter how it became contested, to fall to either party (and the people of Man are rejoicing at the return of their long-lost land... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif)


As far as more mundane administration goes, I've received turns from everyone except Aby, Mari, Pyth, T'ien, and Van. It's probably at least as hard to write the abbreviations as it is to write out the full names... Just a random comment on life, for your amusement. Or non-amusement.
Also, I like the name of the vehicle "Mercury Villager". Makes me think there should be a "Honda Peasant" and a "Ford Serf". I also like how there are bottles of juice that say things like "TROPICAL TWIST FURY flavored" - because there's no such thing as tropical twist fury, only flavors that imitate it.
Yeah...

Re: Proposition 46
 

I'm having an issue with Puffyn's turn... If we can't resolve it by early tomorrow morning, I'll have to delay hosting of this turn until Sunday. Sorry, folks.

Re: Proposition 46
 

It's not my fault. Well, I guess it is, but I've resent the turn and hopefully it'll work.

Re: Proposition 46
 

Hooray, Puffyn saved it!

Re: Proposition 46
 

I think we should either follow the rules literaly or agre on a new set of rules. If you can say that it was okey for you to take land from Vanheim when I was marching past it with the excuse "it was in the spirit of the game", then anyone can get away with that.

So there will be no hosts until sunday... do that mean that we should get the turns in as soon as possible so that you can host as soon as you get home, or do we just skip a host and we may send turns when we are used to send them on sundays.

Marignonian idleness...
 

Speaking as the player: I am about to move from Mass. to Virginia this week, so I may possibly stale a turn or two, although I think I won't. No need to delay the game on my account. On the other hand, Marignon will not be making any brilliant, well-thought out moves either. The inquisitors and diabolists are too busy packing.

My email won't change in the short run. Quite probably I will be slow to reply to messages until next weekend.

Re: Marignonian idleness...
 

Another player (me) chimes in... Apep's got a proposition up to turn the Wyrm Ygorl semi-rogue so that he and Zona Nyl can duke it out in an uninhibited fashion, to which Ygorl replies (with much sadness!) that it's not necessary since Zona Nyl failed to fulfill the requirements of Prop. 44 and is therefore rogue.

Exciting times, these...

Re: Marignonian idleness...
 

Ygorl is rouge after his attack against Vanheim.

moving...
 

I'm moving on Sunday and I would prefer if we could set the game on hold til I get internet, but I can understand if people want the game to move on, so I'm searching for a sub until I get internet.

Re: moving...
 

And for that sub I would prefer to have someone that is allready playing this game.

Re: moving...
 

I'm happy to pause it while you get hooked up; I guess it would delay the Sunday hosting until some unknown point after that?
Or, I see shovah's already volunteered to cover for you... Let me know what you want to do.

Re: moving...
 

I'd be happy to pause for Folket next week if other people are okay with it. Life is busy...

Re: moving...
 

Well, I think this is a critical stage of the game with me going rouge and all. Ermor might triumph or fall apart, but either way I feel much better if it does under my watch.

So let us host tomorrow and sunday then continue as soon as I get internet up.

farewell, Ronan
 

I'd like to thank Panther for starting this game. It's too bad he ended up in an untenable position so early, because I think in the last 20 turns or so, the game has started looking like what he intended.

I wouldn't mind seeing another such game (wyrms, dragons, mages, whatever) in the future (after this one is done). I think that to make diplomacy even more important, the number of starting provinces/nation ought to be reduced.

As a side note, Panther's game has the effect of illustrating Dominion 2's inherent variety. 16 wyrms in 16 different nations with 16 strategies. A beginner could look at the pretender builds on the wiki and learn a lot about the possible variety of strategies. If I were not sitting in an empty apartment, on my way out to move, I'd add a space on the pretender builds page (or maybe links) for people who want to explain how they chose their build. That way beginners would have a small reference of all the various strategies one can do with a single pretender, but almost any nation.

Re: farewell, Ronan
 

they tried a dragon one, but only half the players do their turns, and the senate has not passed anything, infact there is no real structure, just a quiet and enduring peace accord between all nations. Its weird.

Re: farewell, Ronan
 

Ha! The construction of my unstoppable army of Shadow Vestals has begun!

Re: farewell, Ronan
 

man shadow vestals are insanely easy to banish. at least in my tests with them.

Re: farewell, Ronan
 

is there a hold up on this game? I am not recieving turns.

Hold up
 

I think we are waiting for Folket to get his internet connection again, but the next turn will be on Tuesday if not sooner.

Re: Hold up
 

Seems like my ISP is on vacation but they will install internet next week. =(

(I'm writing this message from my GFs parents. )

Re: Hold up
 

Er - this is next week. And a turn didn't go on "Tuesday if not sooner" - are we dead?

Re: Hold up
 

No word from Folket.
Has anyone seen him in any other games?

It would be a real shame if he dropped out...

Re: Hold up
 

Sorry, since it was the weekend I thought next week would refer to the week after the coming week.

So at some point during the coming week I will get my connection.

Re: Hold up
 

Hi everyone,

Just a friendly check-in... any word on when you'll be ready to smite again, Folket? I've actually been quite happy to have a bit of a pause, since I was out of town for a few days and busy with other things (*cough* CIV 4 *cough*), but I'm starting to miss ol' Apep and my tricksy, devious, esteemed fellow Wyrms...

-puffyn

Re: Hold up
 

yeah, I don't want this game to die.

Re: Hold up
 

Hmmm, yeah, Civ 4. I keep getting beat to Alpha Centauri, despite having by far the highest score up to that point... I'll get you yet, Roosevelt!
And you too, Zona Nyl!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Hold up
 

Ditto all that. I just moved and my new job is busy. And, yeah, Civ IV too (just out for us Mac people). But I wait for the day when King James can add more titles to his portfolio.

Re: Hold up
 

I will be out of town from Saturday, July 29 through August 5. Should I get a sub or is this game gonna be on hold until then?

Re: Hold up
 

No telling... Folket said he thought he'd be up and running some time this week, but that was a while ago with no word from him since then. A sub couldn't hurt, certainly...

Re: Hold up
 

Or if Folket isn't currently at war, let him stale.

Re: Hold up
 

Hello everyone!

I never heard back from my ISP, and now it seems like I will be out of internet for an other three weeks minimum. But the good news is that I got a bike. So I may ride it 12 km to get my turn everyday so we may run on schedule again. As I do not have a job at the moment it will only be good for me to move some, instead of siting home all day.

I will return my turn this weekend and we may run as ordinary.

Sub for Pasha
 

Hi:

I will be out of town next week starting this Saturday until next Saturday.

Jurri will be filling in for me.

Pasha

Re: Hold up
 

Hi Folket,

Now that's the kind of dedication I like to see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

-puffyn

Re: Hold up
 

Turn has hosted!!!

Ermor is very scary. 'Nuff said.

Re: Hold up
 

And ... Arco is rogue!

Re: Hold up
 

Was this by Proposition or action?

Re: Hold up
 

There hasn't been any news on the wiki in a long time, so certainly not by proposition.

Re: Hold up
 

Definately by action - a tricked out etherlord teleporting into my province, thus attacking without any Council sanction.

Re: Hold up
 

Ritual of Returning and you have my capital? Not sure how else that would have happened...

A recap for the weak of mind
 

Speaking as the player, and hoping folks will correct me and augment my recollections of current conflicts:

- Ulm and Arco are at war
- Arco is now rogue

- C'tis is fighting Vanheim and Ermor
- Ermor is rogue (due to missing payments on the Arcan Nexus tax?)

- Man is fighting Ermor
- Man has been suggested to be rogue, but no consensus has been reached, nor has anyone really pressed the issue

- Prop 39 is still a muddying factor in predicting future wars

Anyone have anything to add?

Re: Hold up
 

Isn't your capital - you can look at the turn and see, it's a relatively unimportant province that I've held for ages. My guess was / is that, in danger of losing your last province, you did a blind teleport in hopes of lasting another turn, or you thought it was an Ulmish province - never has been, never (?) will be.

Re: Hold up
 

The last turn was so long ago, my memory's hazy. After viewing the turn, I see that I marched into that province of yours, after all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: Hold up
 

Marched - so you did. I would presume you might have meant to march into Linshire; alas, the only exit that would mitigate the offense and retract my declaration of roguehood would be back into Trencebor, somewhat full of an Ulmish army. Perhaps you have an alternative suggestion before the teleports and astral travels are launched?