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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Bah. That beat up old thing?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
A simple (2nd level) Clerical Make Whole will take care of that aspect. Of course, any nightmares and your claws will make mincemeat of the thing....
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Hmmm, claws are a lot of trouble to have.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Did we decide that you can keep your shapeshifted form while asleep? You could change yourself into a claw-less form while sleeping http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Hmm, I never did get around to having that mended, did I? Saved my life, that thing did. Bloody rocks and pits... *grumble*. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Meh, then I'd have to dress every night and undress every morning. Kinda weird.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Maybe we could put a leather cover over the mattress? Really though, you'd think the elfanoids among us would be more needing of a mattress than the draconic ones.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Dragons just need a different kind of mattress - a big heap of coins and gems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Mmm, gold...
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Bah. Then I'd be really tiny. And people would mistake me for a pet again. I don't like being a pet.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
A Monitor Lizard is Medium, not tiny.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
You know, alter self would come in handy several times.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Multiclass to sorceror a few times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Or ask Kaylin to cast more polymorphs on you...
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Hmmm... could you imitate me so that next time a monster attacks me, it mistakenly attacks a big tough dragony thing instead of a wimpy little wizard? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Whether it's possible depends on how much you invest in the deception - with a lot of your equipment, you only have one such, and it would pretty much only be Kaylin's physical form duplicated. The rest would need to be done with Illusions, Polymorph Any Object (imitation magical equipment - even registers as magical!) or loaned equipment.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
That gives me an idea... if I used mislead, could I then cast spells without getting targetted, or would monsters be smart enough to figure out where it's coming from?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Depends on how obvious the origin of the spell you cast is. A Lightning Bolt coming from your fingertips is a dead giveaway as to where you are, of course, but a Summon Monster just making something appear with no apparent link to the caster would probably fool most monsters. For a Fireball, I'd require a spot check for the monsters to notice where the bead came from, and a bonus to the DC to notice it didn't come from the image if it originated near or even passed through the image. Of course this is all just my take on things, Jack's the DM.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
That's kind of what I figured, it'd be reasonable. Spells with a verbal component would also have a Listen check, but probably with some kind of penalty... is there any specifier on how loudly you have to speak, or is an arcane mumble OK?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Depends; casting Silent spells? Verbal components pose a bit of a problem for stealth - what with the speaking in a strong voice; sure, the illusion says exactly the same... but one voice comes from a spot the critter can see, and an identicle voice comes from a spot he can't... knowing deceptive magics exist, what's a likely choice for an intelligent opponent? Casting spells without an obvious effect? Spells such as Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Enervation, and Chain Lighting (to name a few) specify that there is a visual effect emanating from you (bead flys from you, bolt starts at your fingertips, black ray, stroke from fingertips, and the like) which isn't going to be hidden, and anything with eyes to see can tell what square it comes from.
Mind you, you could invisibly move after casting a spell, and no longer be where your location was given away.... or you could prepare Silenced spells that don't have such location-oriented displays.... in which case, it would work quite well. Edit: a little late, but there is one question I can answer: Quote:
To cast a spell with verbal components, you must speak in a strong voice; the base DC to hear people speaking (a good start for you casting a Verbal component) is 0 (distance modifiers apply...); the DC to pinpoint the square is 20 over that. So DC 20 for the demon you are standing right next to when you cast the spell to pinpoint your location. DC 30 if you are 100 feet away; 40 if 200; 50 if 300; if you are at the limits of the range of your Fireball (at caster level 15th, that's 1000 feet), I'm unlikely to even bother rolling. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Hmm, strong voice. I can understand with the ray spells, but as douglas points out, a tiny bead is going to be hard to see, would there be some DC associated with a Spot check for that?
Next time there's a chance, I should get that scroll... this could be very useful in keeping me alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
...Uh...I can tell within five feet where someone is from sound at a considerably farther distance than five feet.
At the very least, I can tell direction. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
D&D sound mechanics don't make sense; really, they don't:
A battle has a base DC of -5. At 260 feet, the "average person" can't hear it at all (DC 21). At 300 feet, only wise individuals or those who have spent the time to learn to listen can tell it's there (and even then, only rarely - DC 25). At 400 feet, almost nobody can hear it (DC 35 - for a 20 to work, you need +15 in modifiers; 18 Wis and 11 ranks - an 8th level character!) A lightning bolt strikes the ground. The thunder can be heard quite reliably and recognizeably in real life for miles. Assuming a base listen check DC of -1000, an "average" D&D character can hear it while sleeping on a roll of 1 at a distance of 9,910 feet. An awake character on roll of 20, 10,200 feet. A sound that has just traveled for well over a mile goes from waking everyone up to barely perceptable by someone extremely lucky in the space of 300 feet. A 20th level Cleric with Wisdom 30 and max ranks in Listen (+33 to check) can't hear it at all (roll of 20 fails) after 10,540 feet. I'm not quite ready to start house-ruling it yet, though. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Why not use decibels as the base for a number to divide the DC by?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
The DC to notice a sound at all should increase with either the log or the square root of the distance, or maybe even the log of the square root since I think that's how decibels decrease with distance. The DC to pinpoint the source location should increase a whole lot faster, though. The DC to hear thunder might reasonably be -10 a mile away, but no one could possibly pinpoint the exact 5 ft square the lightning bolt hit from that distance, so a flat +20 modifier to the DC to make it DC 10 makes no sense.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
How about loud sounds you can detect the general direction of, but not the exact location?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
As I said; the D&D sound mechanics don't make Real Life sense.
I'm actually rather familiar with sound; Decibals are a lot like the Richter Scale for earthquakes - 30 decibals is 10 times the volume of 20 decibals, 20 decibals is 10 times the volume of 10 decibals. Theoretically, you could have a -2,860 decibal sound; in practice, why bother? Sound is a form of radiant energy; when uncontained, unchanneled, and unabsorbed, it spreads out and weakens at the square of the distance (surface area of a sphere, specifically....) so that something 10 times further away from the source gets 1% of the same energy (e.g., if someone at 10 feet hears 100 decibals, someone at 100 feet hears 80; someone at 1,000 feet hears 60). In practice, though, that theoretical model simply doesn't work; anything soft (people, grass, foilage, cloth...) soaks up the sound; anything irregular (people, ground, furniture, trees) breaks up the sound so that it gets fuzzy. Large, flat, hard surfaces reflect the sound (and large, hard, curved surfaces can be used to do interesting tricks - ever whispered to someone on the other side of the room, had your taget hear you, but not someone directly between? Can be done, easily, in the right room from the right spots). The D&D mechanics, while not real-world realistic, are simple enough to use and are reasonably balanced (don't give one character type much of an advantage over another) under most circumstances. Gives some bizzare results when applied to real-world situations, but that's okay; D&D isn't the real world. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
By the way, in-game, I'm kind of curious as to why everyone is so willing to go along with me to this mysterious far-off land in search of arcane knowledge, when this sorceror is right nearby? Is it because the only way we'll catch up is by increasing our skill, or are there some other motivations?
Just doesn't seem quite reasonable for everyone to say "Oh hey, this elven wizardess chick we've known for about a week wants to travel a thousand miles across an ocean, desert, mountains, in pursuit of knowledge that we can't benefit from unless she stays with us." Not that I'm encouraging dissent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Well. We could... get someone in that wizards place to teleport the sorcerer to that place? I dunno. Maybe the sorcerer decided he wanted to make holes in his fireballs too.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Bah. If he's casting Fireballs... you're in for a rough ride http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Well, we don't know where he is... and he teleports to us... so one location is just as good as any other for trapping him....
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Yeah. And how many of those archmages do you betcha have dimensional anchor prepared?
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Just for him, Dimensional Anchor is on every standard spell list I have...
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Because wazzername is a PC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Hehe... good point, but you'd think Archmages would be smart enough... no wait, if the good guys in charge were smart, bad guys would never get power...
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
That presumes that the bad guys are stupid.
The truth is that 100% safety is a myth. Your brains could be blown out tommorrow. Most people have trouble with this. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
I take solace in the fact that the probability is very small, and also if I allow my mind to be paralysed by the thought, I'd never get anything done. Plus, if it did happen, all the worrying would be in vain anyways. Also, if it happened tomorrow I'd miss some of the D&D session, so I can't imagine that. Sunday, now, I'm free then for some brain reduction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Heh, I finally got around to reading the log of last session and was quite amused by the many failed attempts to kill the bunny, none of which would have happened if I'd been there. First round, I would have followed up Kaylin's successful Mind Fog with Greater Command: Halt! (DC 23, hard to make with only +5 after Mind Fog's penalty), and my Holy Bow would have gone right through its DR/good and regeneration/good. Oh well, it was much more amusing this way.
Does the newly Animated wagon count as a "creature" (not necessarily living)? If so, it's a valid target for Wind Walk, and I can drastically speed up the rest of the journey. My next opportunity to pick up Hero's Feast will be at 16th level, unless Kaylin helps out with a Limited Wish. For explaining it IC, I think it would be quite reasonable for Kaylin to complain about all the things that have sent a substantial portion of the party running in fear recently, she's got plenty of Knowledge Arcana to figure out that Hero's Feast would deal with it and that powerful clerics can cast it, and Elorin has demonstrated similarly powerful divine spell casting ability several times in her presence. A fairly short IC conversation would reveal the problem (Elorin's spells known != entire Cleric spell list, unlike for clerics), and Kaylin has already used Limited Wish to fix somewhat similar problems with herself so suggesting it would seem pretty obvious. On a side note, does it even require a roll for Elorin to be familiar with at least the basic names and capabilities of every spell on the Cleric list, at least the ones of low enough level for him to cast? Unless the character doesn't actually pick his own spells known (i.e. his god picks for him, or the knowledge comes instinctively with no knowledgable guidance, neither of which makes much sense to me without taking the choice away from the player too), I'd think he would have been presented with the list to choose from at some point. One of my new 7th level spells (Destruction) requires a 500 gp focus that I haven't gotten yet. Can we just assume that I bought that offscreen before we left seeking the Archmagi? As for why the party would go along with this side quest, we've exhausted all of our leads on the Sorcerer at the moment, we know he needs a certain bit of knowledge that the only known sources of are in the party, and you do have a stated reason for staying with the party afterwards. Also, if you state that you're going whether we come with you or not, we do have something of a vested interest in making sure such a proven and potent aid in our quest remains alive and able to help. Also, if we didn't accompany you, we'd be stuck trying to track down the Sorcerer without you while you were gone. For a more humorous explanation, see this and this. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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As for how you get them? The Favoured Soul develops a desire to be able to do something, and the diety, if it's something it lets it's clerics do, and if it's not too much for one so inexperienced (e.g., the FS has attained a high enough level that the FS has a spell known available at that level, and the FS hasn't asked for too many), the diety lets the favored soul do so (a limited wish will permit you to go through the process again - seeing you expend such recources, the diety permits it to work for a favored one in full knoweledge). Quote:
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Holy crap, I want Destruction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif
To me it'd make sense if Elorin was at least familiar with the various names of the spells, since he'd probably spend time chatting to other clerics, and surely conversation would eventually come to world-shattering spells, etc. The Limited Wish idea sounds fine, Kaylin's done it before and wouldn't mind the 300 XP cost... On another note, I may have an Ultimate Frisbee practice at 0900 PST Saturday, but more on that later. If I'm not on IRC or openRPG by whatever time we decide to start, use the charsheet at http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Kaylin.html I'll try to update that whenever necessary. Also, for your edification, Kaylin's Great Warping and Elemental Blast as I believe we haggled out are there. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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He may have talked to clerics, but he doesn't get automatic access to the full list like a cleric does, he doesn't really stay in one place, and so on; he does not automatically know everything. Kaylin, on the other hand, has a very good Spellcraft roll.... Quote:
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Well, if I am gone, it'd only be for a few hours. Perhaps she's cramming in case there's an entrance exam? Just NPC her, and here's the standard spell lists I've come up with. Hopefully I won't be late or there isn't practice, coach is being evil right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Hmm, I was unaware that "Favored Souls" are different than clerics... my Spellcraft roll isn't that great, why just the other day I rolled a 33! *cough* |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Hmm, I just checked, and Favored Soul is the ONLY divine spellcasting class I could find that doesn't have either one of Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Nature) on its class list, and the Epic Spellcasting feat makes it pretty clear that those two knowledge skills, along with Knowledge (Arcana), are considered very highly related to spellcasting in general. Given that, it just doesn't make sense to me for a primary spellcasting class to not have the appropriate knowledge skill on its class list when classes like Paladin and Ranger, which give spellcasting as a minor or secondary feature, do. Knowledge (Arcana) is on the Favored Soul list, but it's linked to arcane spellcasting, not divine. I think Knowledge (Religion) was left off the list or replaced with Knowledge (Arcana) by mistake. Edit: In case you want to argue that the Favored Soul's lack of scholarly study is the reason, consider this quote from the PHB concerning Sorcerers and the fact that Knowledge (Arcana), their relevant "spellcasting" knowledge skill, is on their class list anyway: "Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of rigorous study that wizards go through, they don’t have the background of arcane knowledge than most wizards have." Quote:
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Also, an inherent limitation of the class (such as relying on two spellcasting stats); helps balance those monk-perfect saves, energy resitances, and eventual flight and DR 10. Quote:
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Mind you, save-or-die effects work both ways. How does a CR 16 encounter with a Favored Soul 16 with the Divine Reach metamagic feat, Harm, Heal, Wind Wall, spell reistance, Distruction, Protection from Energy, and a Bead of Karma (Caster level 20; Dispel Magic DC 31....) standing in winged boots sound? Fort save-or die for the Rogue & Wizard, Will save or die for the Paladin, Death for the ghost (half of 150 is death for Jason; although of a temporary nature, so the will half doesn't matter), spells mostly fail, arrows don't hit, and swords can't reach. And nominally only CR 16; a "Very Difficult" but hardly game-breaking encounter, by the book, although the extra wealth could probably push it to Encounter Level 17. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Jack, you could get a silver dragon as a familar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Barring the Improved Familiar feat, a familiar needs to start out as a mundane animal; as a full-fledged (if small) dragon, Kibin doesn't quite qualify.
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Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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Edit: Also, the NPC's caster level of 20 does nothing to prevent suppression of his Winged Boots with a targeted Dispel Magic (CL 5, so DC 16). |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
Server online.
Switching out for Spellcraft or Knoweledge (Arcana) is fine. And yes, you could get such a character; but chances are he'd be taking someone down every round until then, with a properly distanced setup; Kaylin only has 51 HP and SR 18; a caster level 20 Harm, even if she makes the save, will still do 75 damage; instant death. Kibin is made of sterner stuff, but his will save is only +9 or so; a farily minimal Reach Harm would have a Will save of 18 (5th level spell, 7th level slot; minimum primary casting stat 17) but probably considerably more; and you're right; the boots could be taken out; good catch - needs Spell Immunity, then. |
Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
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