Re: Hold up
 

Descend away!

Yeowch!
 

My poor trolls didn't stand much of a chance - though I think they survived the turn shown here (which was 1, I think).

Very impressive, Folket!

(2.3 MB)

Schedule
 

Also, would anyone object if we moved to a twice-a-week schedule? Maybe Tuesday and Saturday at 8pm? These turns are getting *long*.

Re: Schedule
 

I wouldn't mind, even if this is one of 1.5 games I have going ( this and subbing in Triple ) - a fixed schedule works well imo for the late game, especially where we supposedly have diplomacy.

Torpedo diplomacy sometimes, such as Arco invading yet more of my lands, breaking his ethereal nose on my fresh citadels, but still! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Schedule
 

I will play my turns as I get them. so any time frame works for me.

Re: Schedule
 

Yes, a longer schedule sounds like a good idea. There's just so much to micromanage these days... and I'm not even fighting.

-puffyn

Re: Schedule
 

I guess the simplest way to shift into the new schedule would be to just put off the Thursday hosting to Saturday... Is that okay with everyone?

If people get their turns in to me sooner, I'll host sooner, and if someone objects we can figure out something else, but let's say the next hosting is scheduled for Saturday 8pm EDT.

Re: Schedule
 

Why has it hosted allready, should not next host be on Thursday?

Re: Schedule
 

Re: Schedule
 

... I thought it would be thursday and Sunday...

Re: Schedule
 

I could pull up my backup of the turn, add Folket's .2h file to it, and re-host...
Anybody have strong feelings one way or the other? I don't mind doing it... I might even end up with the air queen this time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(Who was it who stole my little princess??? I'm doing all the hard work here, and not only does someone else bogart the choicest artifacts that fall out, but someone has the nerve to take my little princess!!! NOT polite!)

Re: Schedule
 

Hmmm. Would we all have the option of submitting a new file? Not that much happened in Pythium one way or another.

Re: Schedule
 

I'm happy to bend to whatever people want... Some people have already sent in their turns for 103, though - as more time passes, it becomes less reasonable to rerun 102, I think. If we're going to do something, we should do it soon.

Re: Schedule
 

I feel for Folket. However, in my experience, rehosting leads to strange badness. Besides, do we really want Man to have all three air queens again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

-Apep, non-summoner of air queens and a failure at bringing winter

Re: Schedule
 

How are the graphs (specifically gem income and provinces) looking now?

Re: Schedule
 

Personally - I don't see where Folket got the impression it was Thursday and Saturday. I mean - a week before the turn in question, Ygorl posted : "I guess the simplest way to shift into the new schedule would be to just put off the Thursday hosting to Saturday... Is that okay with everyone?"

Not sure how that is interpreted as Thursday and Sunday, and there certainly wasn't any response for a full week regarding it. Feh.

Re: Schedule
 

well, I guess it was just my mind playing me a trick. But I would prefer thursday and Sunday as days to host, Since I'm busy in the weekdays.

Let us play on now, I made a misstake and will have to live with it.

Re: Schedule
 

I don't mind going to Thursday/Sunday (in which case the upcoming Saturday hosting would take place on Sunday instead) - we've got Folket's vote for such a change... anyone else care to weigh in?

Re: Schedule
 

I like the current schedule, whatever it is (tues / Sat?).

Re: Schedule
 

I'm going to be out of town tonight anyway, so the hosting won't happen until tomorrow night - we can decide whether to continue the T/S schedule giving only two days to do the next turn, or skipping Tuesday (giving 6 days), or switching to Thursday/Sunday. I'm fine with any...
Oh, and Pasha, I was wondering what happened to my Sidhe Lord. I guess you've now got the power to turn other folks' commanders into wolves and take them as your own!
This knocks Folket out of the running as my estimate of the strongest nation...

Also, here's another nut for the council to chew on: Apep, in his vast shortsightedness, has declared war on Ygorl, nominally under the auspices of Prop. 39 (since Ygorl's been engaging in war with Zona Nyl). However, Zona Nyl is rogue; and "[a]ll diplomacy, trade, borders, and any other agreements with rogue nations are null and void" - Ygorl and his lawyers assume this extends to the mutual-defense agreement of Prop. 39, in which case Apep is about to become rogue. He of course would have a different interpretation of the Law... In that case, he's merely available for attack, for declaring war on another signatory of 39, but is not rogue.

Cheers, all!

Re: Schedule
 

Ygorl:

I am soooo powerful now... I don't even know what you're talking about. Did you foolishly send your Sidhe Lord into my lands? Was that the tiny fizzy sound I thought I heard?

BTW, I will be away Sunday through Tuesday. So, if you can postpone the hosting until late, that would be nice. I will be back late Tuesday night (Boston time).

Lord Pasha

Re: Schedule
 

We in Mictlan vigorously dispute Ygorl's interpretation of Article 8 of the Charter. It is clear that this language is intended to allow a Wyrm to escape its private agreements and deals with a rogue Wyrm. Proposition 39 is, as we understood at the time, a far-reaching law which supercedes many of the detailed rules in the Charter. It is clear that a Wyrm must be a member of the council at the time of a vote, but since 39 does not explicitly alter a Wyrm's state upon roguehood, the most natural interpreation is that it does not.

Ygorl is correct that when we attack Man (we have merely notified Ygorl privately that we intend to attack him at some point in the future), Mictlan shall then also be a valid target for PP39 Wyrms.

Re: Schedule
 

unless you get a prop passed prior to attacking to nullify 39

Re: Schedule
 

We agree with our neighbor Apep; the bindings dissolved by roguehood are agreements made within the law, not obligations under the law itself. Proposition 39 is, as we see it, part of the law, and thus its terms are not abrogated by roguehood.

Jacques of Marignon
still very holy but also very sleepy; perhaps widespread war will keep us awake

Re: Schedule
 

That interpretation makes going rogue almost meaningless. If that's the game y'all want, fine. But it's not the game we started.

Re: Schedule
 

going rogue clearly means that you have neither the protections, not the privileges of the council, or any of its propositions.

it is essential ex-communication

Re: Schedule
 

Pasha, here's what I meant... One of my Sidhe Lords vanished. Without a trace. They do that sometimes, it's in their nature I suppose, but this guy was gone for a month or more. Unheard of. Then, next thing I know, my scouts bring me word that they've discovered and killed a sneaking Ulmish spy in my capital. Here's the strange thing, though... That "Ulmish spy" was a wolf, with the exact same name as my vanished Lord, with the exact same magical powers, and (if I remember correctly, which I may not) with the exact same magic items even! In light of the revelation of this new power of yours, I am willing to do nearly anything to prevent your ire from pointing my way.
I'll also wait to host until I get your turn. If it's late Tuesday, that might mean Wednesday, though...

As always, if anyone needs things slowed down, or our delays cause you problems in getting the next turn in on time, let me know.


And, it looks like we've got some disagreement on the interpretation of the law here... Maybe I'll have to put up a proposition! How exciting!

edit: The proposition is now up. Read, enjoy, and vote!

Re: Schedule
 

What a horde! I've never *seen* so many demons and devils!
Apep is rogue, if my new proposition passes; if not, he's open to attack by everyone under Prop. 39, but keeps his council vote.

I guess if he actually were rogue, he wouldn't get to vote on 39, but that seems cheesy to me.

Re: Schedule
 

You like it, you really like it! I've been hording those demons and devils for a long time now...

As for your proposition, I will have something more to say on that later today.

-Apep, Horder of Hordes

Re: Schedule
 

I read the propr, and nowhere in it does it say that pasha is rogue. It only deals with what it means to be rogue...

explain what you mean.

Re: Schedule
 

Not Pasha's Wyrm, Puffyn's Wyrm.
Apep sent six armies into the lands of Man last turn; Apep is arguing that Man was open to attack by virtue of Prop. 39, since Ygorl attacked Ermor. Ygorl is arguing that, since Ermor went rogue, he was no longer a part of Prop. 39, therefore Ygorl was still protected, therefore the horrific and unprovoked Mictlanish attack was illegal.

Quite a mess, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Schedule
 

yikes.

quite a misunderstanding. What precedent would this have to make a new clarification retroactive against past misunderstandings without explicitely stating as such?

Re: Schedule
 

A good point.
If this proposition passes, Ygorl is happy to not prosecute roguehood as long as Apep withdraws his armies and makes modest reparations. In that case, it would not set a precedent.

Though, I don't think it would be a terrible precedent to set; the proposition is not creating new law, rather it is a poll of all Wyrms as to what the existing law already is. There's certainly cause for lenience when a law is violated through misunderstanding or ignorance, but such ignorance does not mean that the law was not violated.
...Especially in the case of such a diabolical attack!

Re: Schedule
 

Hey Ygorl,

Can we wait until after this proposition passes or fails to host? That would mean hosting Wed night. Since Pasha won't be back until late tonight anyhow, I think that's what we would be doing regardless. Plus Ulm should get a chance to see the excitement, I think.

This is mainly because I do not wish to be declared rogue, and if Prop 49 passes I will take different actions than if it fails.

Thanks,
puffyn

Re: Schedule
 

Sure!
I was planning on waiting until Wednesday for Pasha anyway... I'll wait until Pasha gets his turn in, and then until the proposition closes and I get a turn from you.
Depending on how late that runs, I might not get to host until Thursday...

Re: Schedule
 

There is, by the way, about a day left to vote. Even those who have already voted might want to revisit the page, as things have gotten pretty wild. I don't mean "Girls Gone Wild" wild (we are only Wyrms), but still pretty wild.

Re: Schedule
 

I am back, and I have sent in my turn and voted.

Pasha

Re: Schedule
 

Is there not only about a hour left to vote? The proposition was posted during "weekend time" at 23:00 (EST) on the 13th, thus it closes at 23:00 (EST) on the 15th, i.e. in an hour and a half. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Re: Schedule
 

Yeah, you're right. I'm losing track of what day it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Proposition 50
 

Following the rejection of Prop 49 and the logic behind it, Mictlan will continue the war against Man unless ordered to stop by some future proposition.

However, we have come up with a compromise proposal that salvages much of the idea of Prop 49 as it relates to wyrms going rogue in the future, and also spells out the legal position of Man and Mictlan, so we encourage you to vote on the new and exciting Proposition 50.

Re: Proposition 50
 

Folks, I've been waiting for a turn (or a word) from Folket, but have received neither.
I can host tonight or tomorrow (depending on what I do tonight), or I can just wait until Saturday. At this point, I'm inclined to do the latter, if nobody objects. I would have a tough time getting my turn done in 2 days, I think. Too many people hate me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On a related note, would anyone mind if we went to once-a-week? Or once every five days (though that might be confusing?) You use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen people than when you only have to be worried about one - and those moves can take a long time.

Cheers!

Re: Proposition 50
 

Ygorl,

We don't hate you; in fact, we in Mictlan just want to be closer to you. Yes, that's it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Once a week hosting is fine by me. It's so much work, getting all those devils into formation, and don't even ask about the difficulty in getting imps to practice marching in a straight line...

Re: Proposition 50
 

I would prefer whatever schedule (1 or 2/week) to be predictable (same day or days each week). Every five days, not so good for me.

Re: Proposition 50
 

Don't matter much to me. Once per week is fine. Twice a week would be preferred however.

Pasha

Re: Proposition 50
 

Um - hate to say it, but Folket has been screwing up a number of games (including one I was subbing for him in) even after his supposed restoration of internet service.

Re: Proposition 50
 

OK... for my sanity, and at least Puffyn's (sorry Pasha), let's say turns will be due Saturday at noon, EDT. This also gives Folket time to get his act together for this turn (I imagine things might be a little hairy down in Israel these days... that is where he is, right?) and enough time for future turns that, barring some catastrophe, we won't need to wait for him.

Pasha, I recommend you find yourself a war. I specifically recommend Puffyn, since he's demonstrated that he's got a large enthusiastic army. And Puffyn, you should remove the "just" from the first clause of your signature and place it into the second... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Don't worry, I've got plans for you, oh yes... Maybe they won't be obvious at first, but those demons will be dancing the polka (badly!) soon enough!

Re: Proposition 50
 

I'm very sorry, but I'm having alot of stress and I need to cut down on commitments.

I will look in the forum and see if anyone wants to sub me but most likly I will just put my nation to rouge.

I hope this will not screw the game for you others =(.

Re: Proposition 50
 

My turn will be delayed a bit as my hotmail is messing up a bit.

Re: Proposition 50
 

Well, you've got all week. Won't that be enough?
Or, you could make a gmail or lycos or yahoo account (all of them are way better than hotmail, as far as I'm concerned)...

Let me know closer to next Saturday if you still can't make it.

Re: Proposition 50
 

It should be fixed before then. I havnt been keeping track of this game so am i rouge or what? Really have no idea what im doing.