Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Team Easy-slay(TM) cares!

We've listened to your complaints, chrispedersen (ticket #14E8923C: you expected to be crushed utterly and have your artifacts taken away.) Don't worry! At Easy-slay(TM) we understand that the market for crude, brutal violence is ever-changing.

That's why Easy-slay(TM) researchers are fast and work producing the merciless butchering you've come to expect.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris, you'll need to clear out your PM box if you wish to receive any communications or responses to messages you send.

Players, please refrain from any more delay requests until we can reach turn 50. We are moving extraordinarily slow. Not that it bothers me much, but I just bumped up the interval to 64 hours and you'll have another chance to add more hours when we hit turn 51. In the meantime we need to try to respect the majority who voted for the 56 hour interval as best we can.

Thanks.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Again, I repeat...

Life gets in the way today, tomorrow, and forever if you have any kind of life outside this game.

If we have a player tha continually asks for an extension, then I would agree that they should perhaps bow out for the good of the community.

But with the amount of players involved, babies, grandchildren, sick parents, Internet down, computer on the fritz, and of course that evil thing called work....there WILL be times we need to have an extension.

This isn't a race for me and its supposed to be an enjoyable expieriance and stress reliever (well kinda).

But I am starting to feel like I used to feel when I was young, before I started my own companies. When I was told I would have mandatory overtime and skip lunches for projects.

If I need an extension, I will ask for it and expect it...period.

If it is too much of a hassle to give it or you feel it will slow the game down. Then YOU do my turn, or let me stale.

Geeez, all this is starting to bore me to death.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Grudge, if you don't agree with me, that's your right. Do what you will. I've noted your objection. There are good reasons why I am asking that delays be limited till turn 50 (not mandating), despite what you might believe.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Sept,

Regardless of what you think, I am NOT disagreeing with you. This is your game and keeping it on a straight line is imperative I think. And in that respect I not only agree with you, but think you are doing a great job.

MY problem isn't with your encouragement to keep the game moving (that's your job in this game, among others and I respect it).

My problem was with the statement that we shouldn't/couldn't have any MORE extensions. I have never asked for one before (and you gave it to me when I did, thank you), But with life being so unpredictable, knowing that there are no more extensions or at best frowned upon, takes the pressure of this game to a different level.

My opinion of course:up:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

It's just trying for an admin. No matter how long you give the players to take their turns, someone always manages to wait until the last minute to get their turn in... and then, something happens and they ask for an extension ;). I know this game has had a bit of a frantic pace for me at times, and I've been frankly terrified on a few of these turns that key people on my team wouldn't get their turns in :P.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chrispedersen, I answered your question but your private message box was full. Please, check your box and clean it.

See you.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hey guys... sorry I just got home from work. One hundred messages deleted. I'm really hoping that will last a day or two.

Sorry guys!

Please try again!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

So... I guess yomi is suiciding itself on caelum to be taken over by a stronger mysterio nation?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Interesting.

I really don't follow this thread any more, but some things just catch my eye.

From the OP:
And from a few days ago:
Like I posted months ago, what part of "Delay policy is liberal" is unclear??????

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Probably the word "liberal". From Dictionary.com or Thesaurus.com
Not strict or rigorous, broad, flexible, tolerant.
That seems to be somewhere more than usual, and short of always.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I guess I should have looked at the status screen. Was there something wrong with my .2h?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Maerlande, nice of you to stop by and care enough to add your criticism, bear in mind that the opening post is far from exhaustive and everything in it is certainly not written in stone. I had simply asked that players simply take it easy on the delay requests till we reach turn 50 for a number of reasons that are known to the players in the game.

Rdonj, the kings of Fomoria grow homesick for our adopted Ulm. We long to return and lovingly embrace your peoples once again. Prepare your people, we expect a joyous welcome.

Caelum, you've done a bad thing, breaking those seiges. But we forgive you. We will just need to put them back in place, is all. Stop molesting Kailasa.

Pyg, hello, Hinnom. Nice to meet ya.

DrP, it seems the customers of Easy-Slay around the world are upset with your product and are demanding refunds:

Fast Forward to a time in the not too distant future:

Place: The ruins of Neifelheim.

The prisoner, clad in filthy rags, bound in chains, and bearing evidence of a severe beating, is dragged up from the dungeon beneath the ruined castle Neifel. The once proud leader of the Devas is led into the wrecked throne room and thrown face first
at the feet of the victorious triumvirate of the anti-Deva freedom coalition. Sobbing uncontrollably and uttering girlish squeals, DrPraetorious ... loses ... bodily functions ... soils himself ... to be continued .... :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I don't see it in the backup archive, if it was received in time, Gandalf might be able to give you more information.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

:doh: Sorry guys. I spazzed out there. I guess I never ended the turn.

Just resent the previous one. Lucky we're not at war or anything. :angel

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Septimius - I think you will find ulm most welcoming of your diplomats. In fact, we expect for them to enjoy themselves so much that they stay in ulm. Permanently.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Just having fun with some good natured trash talk. Sometimes I think in our quest to win, we forgot about just enjoying ourselves. I have learned a great deal and have had a ball. When the game ends I shall be happy either way.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Only problem with being happy when this game is over, is that it is poised to last for quite some time still ;).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Well, seems that Arcane Nexus may well be a big step toward bringing the game to a conclusion by concession, at least that is what some are saying. Speaking of conclusion:

Though the Arboreans seem to have been voted highly, to answer some of the Arboreal detractors or competitive concerns, I propose bringing in Haleheim as an alternative theme:

Haleheim (Hale, a derivative of an old Norse term meaning hearty, strong, stout). A down to earth team with an emphasis on physical strength, arms, armor.:

Main thematic path: Earth

Secondary thematic path: Fire

Other associated themes: Seigecraft, forging

Recommended nations (in order of relevance): Ulm, Agartha, Machaka, Ashdod, Shinuyama, Vanheim.

After considering the matter, and though I don't like limited choice, I think it may be best to go with pre-set nations for game 2 for several reasons:

1. Preserves themes
2. Eliminates the whole nation selection process, saving time.
3. Let's Gandalf know which nations he has to work with in advance.

Consider the following hypothetical matchup(s) then:

Haleheim: Ulm, Agartha, Ashdod, Marginon (or less relative but very versatile Arco).

Sanguinarium: Abysia, Jotunheim, Pangaea, Vanheim.

Supplicants of Set: Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Machaka.

Usurpers: Pythium, Bandar Log, Mictlan, Arco (or R'lyeh, MA R'lyeh is very thematic for this team and can be included with certain caveats).

This would leave Man, Eriu, T'ien Chi', to form the basis of a largely possibly Arboreal themed AI team.

Balance experts and others, comments, criticism, suggestions?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Meh, you guys are always talking about conceding, but I don't see that happening. Your side still has tons of good stuff in the field.

The nation lists are looking pretty good this time around. So good job on that.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Is there a thread for us to sign up for the new game?

Ulm cannot be on the same team as either Jotunheim or (especially) Ashdod! Even if the rest of the team is made up of the weakest nations.

I agree those teams are strong thematically but still not well balanced. I'll follow up on this later.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Nations are looking better.. but I'd REALLY like to suggest we just leave ashdod to the AI.

Plus the last team will be weak if you don't have Rlyeh (and preferably with water.)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I dunno, MA Ulm is really weak. Giving them Ashdod may be the only way to make them playable. =) Especially since they're also saddled with Agartha. Those are two nations (Ulm, Agartha) i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

The astral team looks fine to me. Pythium is a powerhouse, BL has a great late game and can be protected earlier, arco is average, and that may be the worst Mictlan, but its still powerful.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

MA Ulm + thug nations= insanity

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Right, but even with cheap forgings, can Ashdod make up for Ulm's lack of contribution otherwise AND agartha's total failure to do anything?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I understand the thinking, but it is flawed.

MA Ulm is not actually that bad - it takes a while to get going, but magma eruption is *an* answer to *everything*.

Likewise MA Agartha - once you can actually summon the marble oracles, giving them Ulm-forged cheap equipment makes them formidable indeed.

The point is, team games tend to blunt the disadvantages of weak nations, because weak nations are mostly weak *early on*.

There are some reasonably strong nations (Machaka and Marignon, for example) which are weak in team games because they just don't contribute that much.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I actually agree with Squirrel on this. Ashdod is also appropriately themed for Haleheim with access to both fire and earth and a unit with a forging bonus.

If I am to take the advice of DrP and Chris regarding Ashdod, the problem is only so many nations available in MA and yet keeping the themes intact for four human teams:

Usurpers dominating Astral, Supplicants dominating Death, Haleheim dominating Earth and to a lesser extent fire, and the Sanguinarium dominating Blood and to a lesser extent Astral.

Consigning Ashdod to the AI, what do we put in its place? Since Arco is an astral power with native astral gem income, I am loathe to put them on any other team aside from the AI or the Usurpers, but they could be put on Haleheim I suppose, since they are versatile enough. Then R'lyeh must come in for the Usurpers, which is doable even on my all land map (with certain caveats). Am I missing any nations?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Haven't started signup's yet. I need to crystalize these teams and nations first.

I think there were some concerns about the Haleheim/Arborean team being competitive late game vs. Tartarians and vs. the Astral teams globals/wish and so forth, not to mention very early on. Giving them Ashdod may do this mightily.

I am diverging from normal team game format where every team has all the bases covered (or tries to anyway), in favor of strong themes. A certain amount of redundancy is of course part of the theme format, don't know that theme based games are intended to be balanced or anything. Having nothing but Markatas or Blood in a game is obviously aiming for something different. They are for fun and role playing I'd think.

Since the series is single age (moving from EA to LA to take advantage of an increasinly difficult AI) it has been a challenge for me to discover and fit 4 distinct themes (that have real differences in capabilities) into a single age without using the multi-age mod. I think I've succeeded as best can be done with that matchup. But if DrP or Chris or someone can come up with a better matchup, with strong themes, and giving each team a dominance in one aspect or area, that makes it unique, lets have it. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I agree with Chris on bringing in R'lyeh for the Usurpers. They are actually the flagship as it were of the team (thematically) and have stronger astral than Arco. Arco may be best left to the AI team, which will include TC, Man, and Eriu. The foundations for an Arboreal theme or even a water based theme as all four have access to these paths.

Perhaps the fears with regard to Ashdod and Ulm, can be reduced by mandating Ashdod be played by a noob (which I believe is the custom with giant nations anyway). And by default 2 positions on each team are rear/flanking positions intended for noobs. Since they can't CT, this might reduce fears of them steamrolling early on or being in the thick of the action with lots of equipment.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Is that noob or newb. There is apparently a tremendous difference. ;)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

In this case, noob might have been correct. :)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hey, I resemble that remark! :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

And yet another player learns how terrible call of the winds is for raiding :D That was one PD sept. So have you guys made your dispel attempt yet, or are you just going to continue not using magic for the rest of the game :P

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

You mean there's more to life than blood and astral?
and empowering?

Nobody casts call of the winds for the troops. Its the information they give thats interesting... Like you said.. PD1...
You really might want to boost that. Or not = ).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

There is if you're a deva :D

Well, that province is... modestly useful. But not really worth a whole lot, to be honest. I have much more valuable provinces. I'm not going to waste pd on a province just so fomoria can cloud trapeze in something that's actually useful and knock it out. He sure seems to want the province though.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Lands of Earth & Fire: Ulm, Agartha, Abysia Marginon
I still disagree with ashdod, but if you had to put it in, replace ulm. IE, ashdod, agartha, abysia, marignon

Sanguinarium: Mictlan, Jotunheim, Pangaea, Vanheim.
Mictlan becomes stronger with blood.

Supplicants of Set: Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Machaka.

Usurpers: Pythium, Bandar Log, Arco, R'lyeh,
Only if one water province. Too strong otherwise.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Rlyeh is going to suck with only one water province. Seriously suck. Its best expansion strategy involves crab hybrids, which are of course useless without water provinces to expand into.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hmm, I am starting to dislike the team name Haleheim as well. It is too close to Helheim and is probably derived from the same word. Lands of Earth and Fire, ehh maybe. Can anyone else think of a good name that symbolizes strength, power, and steel but doesn't necessarily spell out the paths involved?

Children of Crom? Companions of Crom?

Ulm is the flagship of the team, so I am not inclined to replace it with anything, especially Abysia since that is one of the only 4 MA nations with native blood. Sticking Ashdod in the back might be the only way to calm fears with them in the game.

MA Mictlan is too strong of an Astral power I think to be on the blood team. Their astral would help (since astral is the greatest contributory path for blood (horrors and so forth))but I beleive some or at least one of the blood nations already have a smattering of astral and that is really all I want them to have. Also MA Mictlan has no native blood and only a teeny, tiny, itsby bitsy random chance of a blood caster.

MA R'lyeh is the flagship of the mental magic/astral magic theme of the Usurpers. Powerful astral, and can summon void beings. I can stick em in a single underwater lake type province (similar to what we have in this game) without changing any map graphics (and thus making me do more work). The Caveat is their capital will take a resource hit in that it will not gather resources from neighboring land provinces. This however may not be an issue because they've versions of useful amphibious troops like lobo guards that are not resource intensive at all. Taking a +1 or +2 productivity scale will help to overcome some of this, and their may be a map edit that will allow me to boost the resources in the cap.

I am testing MA R'lyeh right now to discover more.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

On second thought, disregard what I said about the astral power of Mictlan. They do have a level 3 Astral caster but they are not as powerful as Arco in terms of both casters and gem income.

I am still disinclined to take Abysia away from the Sanguinarium in favor of a non-blood MA mictlan. Also Abysia has no earth access at all, while Marginon does. Also Abysia has astral capable casters, just like Mictlan.

But I am still looking into it.

Edit:

I do like Chris' lineup for the Usurpers.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris has hit upon something that will work, I believe.

Lands of Earth & Fire: (Chris I don't trust your taste in team names anymore :D, I want another name if not Haleheim) Ulm, Agartha, Abysia, Marginon (this will work, though I hate giving blood to anyone else, as rare as it is)

Sanguinarium: Mictlan, Jotunheim, Pangaea, Vanheim.
If sanguinarium is going to drop Abysia, and take on anyone else it should probably be Mictlan or another suitable weak astral nation.

Supplicants of Set: Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Machaka.

I like it.

Usurpers:Pythium, Bandar Log, Arco, R'lyeh,

I like it.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Ok, if there is only going to be 1 UW province, Rlyeh is useless.

(1) it needs UW provinces to make its expansion not suck, and its expansion is still pretty subpar without an awake SC pretender (with the usual choice being a kraken - a nonstarter here).

(2) it needs UW provinces to build forts in so it can actually recruit national troops. What's the point of being Rlyeh if you can't recruit starspawn except at your capital?

(3) it needs *at least* coastal forts so it can recruit *anything at all* other than independents.

Rlyeh already has a problem resupplying armies far from the water. You've just made that area the entire map. Only a moron would agree to play Rlyeh in this game. Seriously, what do those people supporting gimping Rlyeh like this think they're going to do? Why should Rlyeh be forced to play a 1 fort game while everyone else gets to play normally?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Good points squirrel though I did observe the following:

1. With the level of independents we will be playing with, R'lyeh was able to expand very well initially using only its starting amphibious force and a nice void lord or even a Wyrm.

2. R'lyeh could build costal forts in all of the cap neighboring provinces (and I can increase the number of cap neighbors up to a logical limit) and thus r'lyeh can have a pretty good starting supply of Hyrbrid units (Hybrid soldier, Hybrid troop, star children assassins (I love those guys).

3. We can further compensate R'lyeh with a pop/gold boost in the capital or another suitable map edit.

4. It would force R'lyeh have to be careful about where it puts its inland forts, something people are supposed to do anyway, choosing only provinces with strong indies and useful mages (amazons/gryphons/garnet , crystal mages, etc.)

Considering the above, the gimping might not be that bad and R'lyeh is just fun to play, hell, I'd even be the moron to play it, even though I vowed not to play in the next game (in the starting lineup). :D

The other option of course for the competitive\balanced minded players is my original lineup for Haleheim and the other nations, which you liked but DrP and Chris seem to have problems with, even with Ashdod relegated to the rear/noob postion. That is unless you guys want me to go back to the Arboreans.;)

So you've got a choice, my original lineup Squirreloid approved or Chris' alternate version. If only the fresh water terrain mask worked for coastal purposes.I suppose I could spread out a few other "underwater lake" sea provinces but whatever I do, I know I don't wish to do any work on the map graphics or the starting locations. Changing terrain masks is easy it just needs to make sense.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

star children suck compared to starspawn. And even if we assume 5 total useful forts (or whatever) is fair, they're all clustered together, forcing Rlyeh, unlike everyone else, to be unable to make national units away from its capital. But I don't think Rlyeh can compete if it can't scale up its starspawn production. I know I wouldn't play Rlyeh with less than 10 UW provinces on the map.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Great points again. If R'lyeh is in the rear/noob slot, forts away from the cap may not be that much of an issue.

So lets let the legendary Dr. P, the wise Gandalf, or other interested knowledgable competition/balance minded third parties break the stalemate:

(option 1) We have my lineup and with Squirrel's stamp of approval attached:

Haleheim: Ulm, Agartha, Ashdod (in rear/noob slot), Marginon

Sanguinarium: Abysia, Jotunheim, Pangaea, Vanheim

Supplicants of Set: Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Machaka

Usurpers: Pythium, Bandar Log, Mictlan, Arco

(option 2) And we have Chris Pedersen's wonderful alternative:

Haleheim: Ulm, Agartha, Abysia, Marginon

Sanguinarium: Mictlan, Jotunheim, Pangaea, Vanheim

Supplicants of Set: Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Machaka.

Usurpers: Pythium, Bandar Log, Arco, R'lyeh (in rear/noob slot)

Once, I get this settled I can finalize my list of thematic pretenders from which players may choose and post a new preview.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

And Septimius, you get the great grand fun of a games admin career.
Coordinating a patch upgrade (not yet but probably before end game)
Yes? No? Its all together or none at all.
Wait until others test it and see if a b version comes out?

http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html
19th february 2010
* Version 3.24

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Personally, I'm more worried about the ulm team than the Rlyeh team.

Rlyeh .. just add water. The amount of water you can debate.
But even with just one.... the ulm team is weaker.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Squirrel, I'm willing to add a few more underground lakes to the map. The good thing for the Usurpers, about the underground lake idea is that not only do they exist in real life but there's nothing that says they cannot be connected to each other via a series of "underground" streams, tunnels, crevices, etc.

And this could make the Usurpers, very powerful indeed because I could link these lakes via undeground connections that don't have any logical surface counterpart. 4 or 5 more in every corner of the globe and you've got a nation which will have the exclusive ability, early on anyway, to move from one side of the map to the other, and pop up and attack anywhere. And build 20 or whatever coastal forts around these 4 or 5 lakes. The flipside is that once Agartha and the human players can get into the water and get to one of them, they could attack R'lyeh cap directly. A fix is to have only one of these connect directly to the cap, with the others connected to each other.

The problem is the map is jam packed as it is, where to put these extra lakes, so they don't obstruct the land routes between AI, magic sites and opposing teams. This map is actually bigger than the current one. Remember, magic sites are purple X's. I could make the central magic site (the most powerful one) an underwater magic site, but don't know where to put the rest. Squirrel?

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4...glocations.jpg

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Honestly, they don't have to connect to each other (although its cool if they do). I'd stick them under mountain graphics, since those are graphical areas of the map that don't have provinces, and thus they won't interfere with the routing of the map (other than possibly providing new ways around the mountains for amphibious or *sailing* forces (lol)).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Can't stick em under mountain graphics, not on this map anyway or on maps with border mountain provinces. I might be able add the sea terrain mask to some border mountain provinces (wonder if/how that combo would work) but that probably wouldn't cover them up completely. In the best case they might appear to ring the lake.

If they are to be connected, which would solve your issue of distance, they'd need to be far enough away from magic sites and the AI so the other teams don't complain about R'lyeh's easy access to both. The magic sites are a prize of sorts to the first team to reach em and hold them.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I was suggesting just adding new provinces. Shouldn't even be that hard to do (add white dot in the center of the mountains so the game knows its a province, error check neighbor definitions and province definitions in the .map file, and add new ones for the new provinces).