Re: MBT's
 

Found the The CBS Evening News[/b]" w/Norah O'Donnel for 4 April 2022but at the time you wrote they are discussing sactions

Re: MBT's
 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...les-to-ukraine

This is the article I was speaking about for the BMPs.

Re: MBT's
 

The only thing different game-wise would be the Pbv-501's had the anti-tank missile launch system removed. I can certainly add a version as a Pbv-501 without the missile guessing it will be sent in as-is which means a 50/50 chance of right or wrong. There are already ATGM equipped ones in the OOB now

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4355.html


NOTE "army guide" uses both 501 and 502 as a description


And the Ukrainians replaced the entire turret on theirs it's unclear if that conversion will be made with these 501's ( guessing not at this time )

ALL WE CAN DO IS GUESS AT THIS POINT IN TIME

further info
Any way....... its in the OOB now with the 73mm gun start date May 2022

Re: MBT's
 

Sorry I was off a minute too late. I just reviewed the following from the same full broadcast (w/0 commercials.), it's there just noted wrong time.

I would "que up" just before the 5m mark and just let it run until it shows up ~16s (GET AT THE READY!) later and have your finger on the "trigger" to hit the "pause button" before that-it's not much you're going to get.
https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_evenin...-april-4-2022/

For everyone else Don has "my guess" on the tank, just seeking UNBIASED answers.

I gotta get ready for work!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

JUST CHECKED IT'S THERE!! GOTTA GO!!

Re: MBT's
 

You mean this one ?


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1649180195


The side skirts are a little different but I don't think it's anything "new"

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
Now that you were nice enough to "blow up" that portion of the tank I was wondering about, I can definitely say that's not the T-90MS/M I thought was a possibility.

They say they're there, I've yet to see one in video or pictures. First ones were supposed to go to the eastern military district but Russian version might not be fielded yet.

The three main tanks expected to serve in the Russian Army they are the
T-72B3M (Our T-72B3/4 is the same tank.) tanks with the domestic sighting and observation system, T-90M Proryv-3 (Again have seen this as the T-90MS not to be confused with the export version. Yeah, my heads spinning to.) and T-80BVM tanks.

Taken from the Updates in light of Ukraine war Thread these should be here as well.
Don put this in Post 100 of the above thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2doYYblaLFU

I would follow up with the companion "book" version of the same video (And website.) in Post 101 of the above thread.
https://tankrecognition.blogspot.com...cognition.html
My thinking easier to look here then pausing that well done video.

Finally, the following comes from modelers as I also had in the same above thread in Post 91. I will preface the following remarks first my very general observation of a biased opinion that their information isn't a viable source in here from some.

I as having been a modeler of historical military equipment and of course race cars:cool: , would disagree with that notion. Generally speaking and the following demonstrates this, we tended to very detailed orientated with a deep sense of history that surrounded the model. It's not the stuff of kids when I first building them in my youth. The deeper appreciation came as a young adult. Just wanted to get that out there. I did appreciate the following work, especially after looking at it, VOLIA, THERE IT WAS IN PICTURES AND VIDEO ON MY SOURCES FOR THE NEWS.

I hope you'll give it a chance because the CAMO is right and it's a good read as well.
https://www.migjimenez.com/img/cms/P...Colors_ENG.pdf

I'm off to get some much needed sleep.

Don we could REALLY use a Rip Van Winkle EMO-G-MO!?!

Good Night Everyone!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Yes, I saw that.#3 is already applied to the Ukrainian OOB

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1649227730

Re: MBT's
 

Looks like Poland is getting some M1's

https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...nks-to-poland/

Re: MBT's
 

Yes but the big question is that a "USA" ready Sep 3 or something a bit less than that ?

For now, I will assume until more info is available that it's closer to what we have as a Sep 2

The suggestion was they could start showing up this year but the whole deal would take 2 years

Re: MBT's
 

See the source and date. The quote below I've already posted from another source (Janes or Army REC.) about the beginning of last month. SEP 22 if planned for FOC is too soon based on the below if I followed your last post correctly.
Para 2: Is the "Shopping List".
Note: "Proposed Sale/Potential Sale" throughout.

"Implementation of this proposed sale will require approximately (22) U.S. Government and (52) U.S. contractor representatives to travel to Poland for a duration of up to five years to support equipment fielding and training. "
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/maj...in-battle-tank

We don't just have these tanks lying around, they will have to completely RESET with DU/and any other classified armor on ours along and not limited to the following subsystems such FCS, GPS (We use our own military specific system which I still can't discuss.), Stabilizer, Vision, Comms etc.

For instance, TI/GSR 50 for BOTH the Polish and Taiwanese
M1A2T as one example based on them choosing to buy an earlier GEN system from us or installing their own.

I see the Polish tanks at least 2 years out to FOC minimum, I'd rather be wrong once than finding ourselves chasing FOC dates again over and over again.

Let's not let expectations get ahead of good common sense.

I gotta got ready for work.

Just got this after logging off.

Forget about my 2 years MAYBE...
"The tanks are expected to be delivered to Poland by 2026 and will be deployed in eastern Poland to deter Russia." FROM
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...1a2-sepv3-mbts

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat.

I'll believe the date when they are reported rolling off the ships.

ANYTHING ANYBODY writes about this up to and INCLUDING Janes is just guesswork at this time\

But please note this from the Janes link matches what I first wrote

I do not care so much about the "official" date they would enter service. IF they were on Polish soil and IF something determined and nasty rolled across the border do you REALLY think they would stay locked up on the training ground?

Not a chance.... so if they arrive this year then this year is the date I use.

This game from the beginning was built on "what might be" and mainly the "what might be" it was designed for is what's happening right now in Ukraine.

Anyone playing as Poland in say..... 2023 who doesn't want to use them, does not have to.

Simple as that

Re: MBT's
 

Alright got those 28 sorted out as being M1A2 SEP V2. This is doable only to the fact some of them are in the process of being converted over to the M1A2C/SEP3.

Those tanks could easily be RESET for foreign sale usage if they pull ones from the line as they're being stripped of their electronic subsystems through the conversion process.

They will not be the USA version as that is our frontline battle tank. That being said, I have after spending over 3hrs after work, early into the morning (0330) found I feel a solution to model a foreign sales M1A2 SEP 2/3 tank.

Unfortunately, as I was doing a final data check on the post I had just finished, someone way above my paygrade decided this would be a good time for severe frontal boundry to pass through us that knocked out power for 8hrs here.

I've kept my notes and I intend on following up as too much time was spent on finding, I feel a very workable solution to the problem.

You'll have it by this weekend or sooner, in the meantime gotta get ready for work.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat

Sorry to hear about your power outage. I have always had battery back up that gives me enough time to save my work and shut down. It was a worthwhile investment.

I have NO IDEA why Poland would want to complicate their parts inventory by keeping spares for T-72's, Leos and now Abrams.

I understand wanting to phase out old the Russian vehicles but in the event of an "event" warehouses and manufacturers to repair/replace parts for Leos is a LOT closer than North America

And why would they want anything that is less armoured or less campable electronically / FC etc than what they already have so yes I can see some systems being a bit less than cutting edge for "export" even to a fellow NATO nation but only a bit

I will be sending you a PM. We can thrash this out there

Re: MBT's
 

Don-Done!

Others and I have reported on this now it's started.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

Used to have a couple of APS UPS but have my electronics all on MONSTER "Super Duper" surge protectors each with 1 Mill protection packages if they fail to work. Everything survived worst electrical storm in years. Oh well, maybe next time I'll be able to get a REALLY "Super Duper" new PC!?! ;)

I'm off to see the wizard, the Wonderful Wizard of Oz...
well sometimes going to bed can make you feel that way at times!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I felt they would do this and said so, Germany leaning towards approval of donating 50 LEOPARD 1 tanks that be delivered within 6 weeks with the rest over the course of 3 months or less.

"Military equipment maker Rheinmetall is preparing to supply up to 50 used Leopard 1 battle tanks to Ukraine, the Handelsblatt newspaper reported on Monday, citing the group's CEO."

"Rheinmetall could deliver the first tanks in six weeks and the rest over the following three months through its subsidiary Rheinmetall Italia if it gets a green light from the German government, Chief Executive Armin Papperger told Handelsblatt."

"Papperger said Ukrainian soldiers could be trained on the Leopard 1 within a few days if they are already skilled military personnel." I'm sure the Ukraine has available tank crews by now.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...7627f44893217e

They should be of a later version/possibly updated of the LEOPARD 1; I think I have it narrowed down to 3 possible candidates.

Still trying to get more solid verification on this.

Also, this could open the door for the MARDER I that's been "batted around" for the last week or so.

Can't help feeling like I'm at least running a 1/2 Marathon these last few weeks with CINCLANTHOME, here and work.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

IEEEE! :banghead:

Leo 1's are better than nothing but not even close to an old 2A4 and there should be lots of them around

That said there are probably a LOT of nations with 105mm ammo in storage and the later versions are hardly puffballs

Re: MBT's
 

I found this to be very interesting. It's really pretty much what's been recorded if a little more on the conservative side. The author also takes a deeper look as to what this means overall to the Russians, in fact several years back I believe the Russian tank storage issue was also discussed as to the quality of what's in storage.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/russi...2080-de-zitter

FURTHERMORE, no mention of either the T-90MS (As most know it by.) which was first stationed in the Far East or the ARMATA which is major technical issues still related to the engines/powerplant and other electronic issues as yet unresolved. The war and cost of it in real terms and sanctions make it even less likely in the RL this tank will see "the light of day" especially in our timeline.

I think a fair estimate will push it closer to 2027/28 if at all. Russia has had no success in new tank development in decades. The "Black Eagle" and T-95 are good cases to make my point.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t12_black_eagle.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t95.htm

Back to bed for a "power nap", I never sleep well when someone's not here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Is there any real evidence the T-15 is in service or any of the other little toys they paraded a few years back?

This made me snort....... from Wiki

Yeah sure it is.............

Re: MBT's
 

T-14/T-15 & Boomerang-All are not in service by my sources or by any Russian sources.

If they were, they would've announced it by now, for both political and for purposes of intimidation given the Ukrainian War.

Both the "Black Eagle" & T-95 were paraded around also, I remember the T-95 actually made headlines when they paraded it all covered under a tarp on a tank transporter. I'm sure I posted that a longtime ago.

Because they are reliable, and the site is user friendly you'll see many question marks for the date for the above and several other pieces of equipment. NOT LIMITED TO THE FOLLOWING, here's...
http://www.military-today.com/

And you wonder why I don't like Wiki, to yours.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The Chieftain


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI7T650RTT8

Re: MBT's
 

A lot of these "ze tank is dead" shills would be stumped answering this:

So OK, your NLAWS and Javelins stopped the enemy attack. Good stuff.

Right, so now you have to counter-attack them to take back the lost territory and bring them to the peace talks. Otherwise they will just camp out on your land.

So how exactly are you going to do that without any of these "obsolete dinosaur" MBT thingys you say now aren't necessary?

If you swarm him with tin-can vehicles even if these have big guns, it won't end well. See the carcasses of the VDV light armoured columns in the Ukraine for a hint. They end up as piles of scrap or puddles of melted aluminium. Only a simple LAW is required to kill those, nothing fancy. Even third world militias have plenty of RPGs.

So perhaps you are proposing to walk in serried lines of leg infantry behind a massed barrage 1916 style? - You do know what WW1 advances were like in terms of casualty lists that filled entire newspapers, don't you?

The MBT, in conjunction with combined arms tactics, is the only viable assault platform since 1916, and still remains so. They are expensive things but everything is more costly as time goes by.

Re: MBT's
 

I had already adjusted the "in service" date for the T14 and T15 to 6/124 WEEKS ago and that is GOOD ENOUGH.

Re: MBT's
 

I just had this discussion yesterday in the "In light of..." thread. So, as I was going to bed for some much-needed sleep, I came across this...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...out&li=BBnbfcL

Walking away from computer!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

So, I haven't heard or seen any, so I was wondering why and where are they? Well, the "where" is in the Ukraine somewhere (That's a relief!?!) ;).

The how come we haven't seen them, unless I missed it is the "why" part is still a mystery. We'll see if they show up when Russia kicks off the Eastern Offensive. I suspect there're in Central Ukraine.

At least we know they have them! : cool:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/re...ime-war-197928

Just wanted to follow up given the war in Ukraine.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Found this


https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illu...9eafa73762.jpg

when turned upside down it looks, rather appropriately, like something else.....

https://i.imgur.com/vBNSplN.png

Re: MBT's
 

^A really creepy rat?

Re: MBT's
 

Re: MBT's
 

So...t-shirts for the game?

Re: MBT's
 

A coffin for three brothers.

Re: MBT's
 

Poland has started shipping 100 T-72M1 UNIT 401/T-72M1R UNIT 032 (In the OOB as T-72M2/This UNIT is correct for the T-72M1R by date and capabilities. See Ref. 2 below. Recommend name changed as noted for the T-72M2.) They are also getting the BWP-1 UNIT 065 (BMP-1) .

Polish UNIT #'s supplied to expedite search and transfer to Ukraine OOB unchanged if desired. [Bhttps://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo...n_display.html [/b]

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat. You really need to double check before pressing " post "
Polish unit 401 is a BA-64.... Unit 402 is the T-72M1. Unit 32 is correct for the T-72M2 but neither is as capable as ones in the Ukrainian OOB now so there is little point in adding them and the time for new additions is past

So take a break

Re: MBT's
 

More like "A crematorium for three brothers"

Re: MBT's
 

That is for sure

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
THANK YOU!! FINALLY.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I had to make a correction to another OOB so the entire set had to be recalced and the installer rebuilt so I put them is anyway

BUT NO MORE PLEASE

There has to be a line. This is it

Re: MBT's
 

*Maybe* ( Maybe ) they are sending M1Rs but this article paints a whole different picture with a photo

https://vpk.name/en/594666_poland-de...o-ukraine.html

https://vpk.name/file/img/polsha-pos...49776501.t.jpg


That is about as far away as you can get from a T-72M1R. It's just a basic 25 year old T-72 on the back of that flatbed. About the only thing it's good for now if there are actual modern tanks around is target practice.... or used as basic training tanks

EITHER story could be wartime BS..........Maybe they are saying they are sending old junk and are actually sending updated one.... maybe not

Either way, the truth might not be ever known but what's in that photo is exactly what they say it is...... old crap dug out of storage with limited utility on a 2022 battlefield

OTOH............. note the source..........

Further......... I kept digging and that photo shows up in a post on Reddit 5 YEARS AGO so that was not something taken recently so if anyone can come up with concrete information ASAP I would appreciate it


FURTHER ( NOT having "fun" here.........)
Rechecked Pats links and the report says


So some of both..... THAT I can work with

Re: MBT's
 

I'm going to start this by saying, we're all damned tired right now pressing these equipment issues well past the point where we normally would be enjoying the patch at least a month ago.

A war comes along and the "flood gates" opened up and the beautiful city of PATCH became underwater.

I'm going to unwrap this by first saying an error on my part in Post 1330 with a wrong UNIT# assigned for the T-72M1 as 401 VICE 402 started the ball rolling

The Dr. is in...

When mistakes like this happens, as you try to unravel it becomes a major distraction that affects one's perception on what follows.

The Dr is out. :p

I've corrected Post 1330 and reposted it below. The T-72M1 is corrected to UNIT 401. Now what was missed as discussed above was what I questioned following my error which unlike the original post, I will just highlight that part which I feel will demonstrate my original intent.

I had my doubts (T-72M), and I should've more forcefully expressed them. That's on me and Don knows this was the exception to what I normally would've done. I'm just really "any word you want" tired right now.

Let's get to it. I've "dug deeper" and found more.

"Poland has started shipping 100 T-72M1 UNIT 402/T-72M1R UNIT 032 (In the OOB as T-72M2/This UNIT is correct for the T-72M1R by date and capabilities. See Ref. 2 below. Recommend name changed as noted for the T-72M2. ) They are also getting the BWP-1 UNIT 065 (BMP-1)"

Something about the T-72M2 was familiar to me (I believe it goes back to my last submission that had a lot of T-72 related work done.) that made me think it being in the Polish OOB was wrong.

But upon reviewing UNIT 032 felt it was the right tank for the T-72M1R in capabilities and let's just rename it and be done to T-72M1R..

It is impossible for Poland to have the T-72M2.

That's because the T-72M2 started life as a joint Czech/Slovakia T-72M1 modernization program called the T-72M2.

The rest I'll let you read from my Ref. 1 (Too much for me to type right now.) ...
"In the early 1990s after the dissolution of the Czechoslovakia, various upgrade programs were developed both in Czech Republic and Slovakia to keep their fleets of T-72 MBTs operational and combat capable. First prototype of the T-72M2 Moderna was revealed in 1993. Development of this tank is completed . For a number of years this upgrade was actively proposed for Slovak Army as well as export customers. However, it received no production orders. Slovakia never ordered this tank due to funding problems. Only few prototypes were built for trials and evaluation."
https://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72m2_moderna.htm
https://www.armedconflicts.com/SVK-T...Moderna-t29016

And look to see who REALLY had one...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...mp-1_ifvs.html

The WASHOUT on T-72M2.
1. Didn't look and don't care about the BULGARIAN T-72M at this moment it would need further research to determine the extent of the modernization they made to their "T-72m2.

2. NOT in the CZECH OOB and that's good.

3. SLOVAKIA/DELETE/T-72M2 MODERNA/UNIT 271/PROTOTYPE ONLY/DELETE//

Now to the Polish T-72M1R ...

The modernization program for the T-72M1 to the T-72M1R was originally approved in 2011. However, the money got redirected to the T-91.

The T-72M1R modernization program was restarted in 2019 by BUMAR-ŁABĘDY S.A. facility. It should be apparent this is an ongoing modernization and in lieu of Poland getting the M1A2P, this means Poland has given the Ukraine newly modified T-72 tanks, the T-72M1R..

The refs, use the term "some of the upgrades are..."well that's all I needed the first time to simply rename the Polish never had it T-72M2 to the T-72M1R.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo...n_display.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ases-2545.html
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/20...ities-in-2022/
https://www.novinite.com/articles/21...+New+Sanctions

I hopefully have cleaned this up, ratified the situation and caused additional work (Which was not my intention :D
.) concerning Slovakia.

The following is due to the lack of sleep and my delusional state so, you know what's coming...

Now my :rant: is over and I better :yield: before Don gets :tough: with me. :D

I see it's 0500 back up in "5", hopefully CINCLANTHOME will let me have another "30"!! ;) :) :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Yeah Pat I "get" the "tired" part. My average in the past month is around 6:15 and it's almost always in two parts with a 2-3 hour gap in the middle and I am getting too old for this $hit

That said......"The T-72M1 is corrected to UNIT 401"..... I ASSUME that is unit 401 in the Polish OOB..... the problem is as I noted Polish unit 401 is a BA-64.... Unit 402 is the T-72M1

But no worries I have it figured out now. They are getting both the M1 and the M1R but I have taken the "liberty" of giving them Ukrainian ammo in the game. That may or may not be the relality but it now is what it is and with that NO MORE CHANGES OR ADDITIONS WILL BE MADE THIS YEAR.

At some point we have to test a version that is not in a constant state of change because with every change comes the chance of introducing a "Gotcha!" into it like copying a unit and forgetting that the Polish tanks use UC 13 whereas the Ukrainian ones use UC59 ( but that was caught PDQ ) and that the secondary weapons for one OOB do not match one for one with the other ( but that was caught PDQ as well )

Right now the release is tentatively sometime next week.

Re: MBT's
 

So the US and NATO should be sending them state of the art tanks?

The idea is to keep Russia stuck in a quagmire, not cause them to gain access to new technology easier than their normal ways.

The idea alone that NATO countries are even giving them anything is a major shift from their stands 8 years ago. Plus it makes sense, to get rid of the crap you have in storage, and thus you no longer have to worry about it.

Anything else lends to profiting by the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) and their greedy little eyes and mouths are already salivating since we have depleted the ready stock of Javelins and other ATGMs and thus need to buy more to replace things...

Also, Ukraine is in no position to be crying about the aid, they are the beggars in this scenario, not the choosers.

If the equipment is used correctly with good tactics and such, then operationally it should give them something to throw the Russians back, something we haven't seen much of from them.

Re: MBT's
 

What equipment they actually get and if or how it gets used may or may not ever be clear but what is clear is that the third decade of the 21st century has been and will continue to be a serious PITA worldwide long into the unforeseeable future and what might happen tomorrow, next week or next month is anyone's guess but it looks like it's going to be a bumpy ride

Re: MBT's
 

Finally, the sometimes WONDERFUL words in RED!

Andy and Don as always THANK YOU for all your hard work and dedication to the game. You'll also be glad to know in an "off handed" manner that CINCLANTHOME also sends her THANKS!?! :rolleyes:

Don, what can I say but thanks again for all your patience and understanding, you've always respected my work and time I put into it even if at times how I got there might've resulted in a "Huh? ".

I to will take some time off. But as I told Don, I have years' worth of data in my files of things that are here for real but "not in here". With a little bit of luck, we might see a couple of examples of what I'm talking about.

So, their semi-retirement and this patch will be a "God send" to allowing me to check the OOB's against what I have and in a perfect world be able to see what Don "snuck it in" and I can simply delete the files and move onto the next one, in a perfect world.

You'll only as always find equipment that have reached FOC or received through foreign sales.

For the duration the same rules as always as I'm not interested in comments there. I'll present the data as always, and it is up to you the player whether or not you use it.

So, the Fastboat Patch Page will live on. So, Andy and Don thank you for your gift of time, no pressure and mostly NO DEADLINES!!!!

Gotta go-work calls.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the info available is in many cases sketchy at best. We have tried to sift through it as best we can but I have no doubt there will be items that turn out to be wrong simply because the info we had at the time was just wrong.

Case in point is the US providing 155 howitzers to Ukraine. The type in the early info was not specific to the model, At first, I thought they would be M777 but when coupled with the supply of M113's that seemed less likely and then I read so "informed" analysis that suggested they would be M198 which made more sense given the accompanying M113s. Since then I have read they are M777's but not from any "official " source but again if you are supplying M113's which first went into service 62 years ago the likelihood the 155's are cutting edge is slim so I went with M198s but right now I wouldn't eliminate M114's from the range of possibilities.

With things like this it's a crap shoot sometimes

The other items are more detailed
for the guns it's just
I weighed the possibilities and decided on the M198. The only difference in game terms is the name

POST RELEASE EDIT

Just before release. info confirmed they were M777's and the name and photo was changed and a M777 specific Icon was added so that is what you will see in the game OOB's everyone has now

Re: MBT's
 

Another Russian tank has lost its moniker as an invincible tank.
It is my belief that what the article below is depicting as a destroyed Russian T-90M by Ukrainian forces is correct. What I'm surprised by is that Russia only has about 100 T-90M tanks in service and just over a year ago just equipped the first unit with them. Which is about how long ago we entered them I believe.

The tank I expected to see first would've been the T-72B3M/also referred to as the T-72B4 which we had decided to enter into the game as the T-72B3/4 hybrid tank that combined the improvements of the B3/B4 variants to save slot space.

So, I've looked at some videos and my sources and have concluded in my opinion that the picture from that Ukrainian Twitter account is a destroyed T-90M (Export version is the T-90MS which was developed first.) as reported.

What took it out is unclear, at first, I thought maybe another tank might've made the kill hitting the tank on the right side with the impact and explosion causing the "road wheels" to blow off from the left side.

But after a closer look, it appears the turret has been "shifted" left and if you look closely beyond the reporter's right shoulder where it meets his arm (Follow the jacket shoulder seam down.) that appears to maybe be the Commanders sight standing up on the ground.

With that I'm thinking it more likely killed by a "top attack" weapon or by one of their precision guided artillery rounds.

Anyway, here's the article with the blown-up picture I used to confirm the tank against all I mentioned above.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...74da24ed66f374
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/st...108226/photo/1
Well, I guess you need to click on the picture to blow it up.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

If the below link is true, we can expect Putin to officially declare war on the Ukraine sometime later today probably before the annual "Victory Day" military parade. There has been speculation this might happen as noted above.

Under Russian law a declaration of war must be made to start a military mobilization and call up conscripts.

It's refreshing to see such a law-abiding leader.
https://twitter.com/OSINT88/status/1...ge%2Fhome.html

This likely to be a "perishable" product.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Apparently, Carl Gustav was seen fighting on the battlefield taking on his biggest opponent to date. You be the judge.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/185276...d-fiery-video/
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-blo...sweden-1705292

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Could anyone detect the direction it came from?

Re: MBT's
 

It appears to me it was hit from the rear. I "walked" the cursor back and forth from about the 7s - 12s.

Before I did that, I ran it through fully then ran and paused it SEVERAL times when I finally caught a "brighter" white light from the initial "white flare" before the flame.

That's when I "walked" (Me controlling the direction of and speed of the video.) the video through as noted in Para 1.

Turret positioned out is in a very venerable spot from a frontal attack which this clearly isn't but also from the rear which I think is what happened.

Walk up at about 8s you'll see the "white plume" appear/hold at 9s and using the turret bustle as your "horizon" you'll notice a small ball of white just a hair brighter than the rest of white plume".

It's on the turret/horizon line/centered between the middle of the "white plume" and its right edge.

I can make it out with the video on my 36" 4K monitor in full screen with the "naked eye" and to be sure with both my onboard magnifier and handheld one.

I used the Newsweek video as it seems to be a little "cleaner" to my eyes and monitor.

And for full disclosure I did think at first it came from the tree line from the left, but I couldn't find the "flare" from the rocket which I felt the video angle would've allowed for.
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-blo...sweden-1705292

I gotta get to bed.

I gave it a couple of hours and it's the best I could do with the material.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

At least the Ukrainians were smart enough to put ERA on their "new" Polish donated T-72M1 tanks before putting them into the field.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...ive_armor.html

These were the "guided rockets" mentioned from posts of yesterday in the SPA/SPAA Thread.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...paltforms.html

Bulgaria supporting the Ukraine in a very useful manner and in as valuable way as supplying them with weapons.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...equipment.html

TRACKING ACTIVELY THE FOLLOWING
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...turn-2633.html
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...manys-approval

The above would also include the Ukraine receiving the MARDER 1A3 (100 UNITS) I feel they'll get these before the LEO 1A5 (88 UNITS) .

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

This guy's opinion is that the T90M that was destroyed was first ambushed (and one of the weapons used MIGHT be a Carl G) and then destroyed by a Russian tank to prevent capture. The latter action is what we see in the famous video showing the moment of destruction of the tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjx_GMLF--Y

Re: MBT's
 

The Ukrainians claimed it was militia forces that took out the second T-90M with the Carl Gustav. This makes sense as most of the Javelins and MSHAW (?) (Going on memory here-the UK ATGW.) went to the frontline troops. It's well known the militia again got most of the Swedish Carl Gustav AT-4 and also the German Panzerfaust 3 both capable of taking out a T-90M. Both use a "countermass" which virtually eliminates the back blast.

My ref below and some other readings I've come across seem to indicate the Germans also sent along an undisclosed amount of the Panzerfaust 3-IT. We know a fair amount about the AT-4 however I feel we might know a little less about the Panzerfaust-3.

So, a couple of things that caught my attention...
"In 2022 Germany supplied Panzerfaust 3 missiles to Ukraine to defend against the Russian invasion. This included delivery of the latest version, the Panzerfaust 3-IT version."

Future proofing at development...
"The barrel of the launch tube has a 60 mm caliber, while the oversized rocket has 110 mm caliber. Such design was selected because it allowed to upgrade the weapon by simply designing larger rocket. In this case there was no need to redesign the whole launcher to accommodate the new rocket."

Without a tandem warhead using the "base" rocket ...
"The baseline DM12A1 rocket has a multi-purpose High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) warhead. It is used against tanks, armored vehicles and structures. It penetrates 800 mm of steel armor. During trials the Panzerfaust 3 penetrated front armor of the T-72 tank and even made an exit hole in the turret. Though this original rocket lacks a precursor charge and is not effective against tanks equipped with Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA)"

Tandem warheads would soon be added.

On Panzerfaust-3IT ...
"Panzerfaust 3-IT has improved tandem warhead. This version was developed to defeat modern heavy ERA, such as the Russian Relikt. It can defeat the latest and heavily armored tanks with explosive reactive armor. Some sources report that it penetrates more than 900 mm of steel armor. Judging by this figure penetration behind ERA COULD (I capitalized this so it wouldn't get lost with the rest of the data.) be around 700 mm. Developers claim that this version is capable of penetrating front armor of the Russian T-80U main battle tank. It can also penetrate armor of the American M1A2 Abrams and British Challenger 2 tanks. This weapon has effective range of 400 m. The Panzerfaust 3-IT weights 14.3 kg. In terms of penetration and range the Panzerfaust 3-IT outperforms many other anti-tank rocket launchers, including the Russian RPG-29 Vampir, RPG-30 and RPG-32. Only the Russian RPG-28 is more powerful."

Might need to check the German OOB to ensure they have the latest versions.

Also, I feel it's safe to assume the following on Panzerfaust-3 ...
This weapon weights 13.4 kg. It has an effective range of 400 m, which can be extended to 600 m by installing the Dynarange fire control unit. This weapon was adopted by the German army in 1993.

Also, the rocket is armed at 5m.
https://www.military-today.com/firea...zerfaust_3.htm

Now to that video saying a Russian tank (Which also was a T-90M.) took out the T-90M hit in that ambush. I'm sorry that's just a truckful of BS.

The tank that fired the shot was at the "start" of a bend in the road with a short straight with the tank that was hit being around the next turn fully. So the Russians have developed a tank shell that can follow the road!?! Or he fired this "magnificent new shell" that maneuvered itself through the trees to the left of the tank and made a sharp 90 and another sharp 90 to hit the rear of the same tank. Amazing!

Could be possible.

However, there's no muzzle blast, no fume from the barrel and more damming no road dust kicked from the percussion from firing the gun on a dry dusty road as you saw kick up when the lead tank got hit.

Other versions that run just a little longer showed those vehicles retreating (I believe the video I used shows this.) because also in the engagement the Russians supposedly also lost a BMP-3 and another unidentified APC.

He has an opinion and I have presented mine, just like them we all have xxxxxxxs as well. :D

Oh, before I go ...
Looks like the Ukraine might get those Marder A3 and Leopard 1A5 armor units later this year as the following is reporting. It would be something if some of those 1A5's got refitted with the 120mm/L44 guns they mounted on the Prototype Leopard 1A6.
The design was fully tested/evaluated and approved for production. But due to fiscal constraints and with the LEOPARD 2 having been made ready for production the LEOPARD 1A6 was cancelled.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rder_ifvs.html

The Czech Army will be getting the German LEOPARD 2A4 for donating some of their T-72 tanks to the Ukraine. The first of the 2A4 tanks could arrive by November.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...r_ukraine.html

Well, I'm going for my walk and might contemplate this new Russian tank round.

Regards,
Pat
:capt: