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Re: Bar & Grill
Sorry, the megaphone was specifically keyed to Renegade 13's voice when it was made.
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Re: There can be only one topic! Meh. Meh...
as Douglas raises a finger to complain about not getting his way, the floor errupts from underneath him.
boards split asunder, and a giant yellow bulb surges up through the floor. The vegetable's jaws open wide, and with a snap they smash Douglas's table into spliters, as he vaults into the air. There is a grinding and gnashing of teeth, as the enormous plant shreds the table and spreads its jaws wide a second time. Everyone's eyes begin to water. Douglas decends from his jump, angling to miss the creature, but it is too big. He falls into its maw, and the jaws clamp down on him, pulling him down into the floor. Before he disappears, he is heard to say "but onions dont have jaws!" and as he utters the word, a trap door in the ceiling opens up and dumps hundreds of normal-sized onions down upon him (which fall through the room and into the hole in the floor, dissapearing from sight) |
Re: There can be only one topic! Meh. Meh...
RD smiles to himself for correctly remembering the traditions of the Cantina. He finds the barrel that Puke stole and, after much searching, pulls him a pint of the same stuff. RD also cracks open a few windows, after all, With so much Onion in one place the drinks may indeed get watered down by the patrons own tears.
"Excellent, On the House." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif |
what does this one do?
"Thanks, RD. I dont know what all that fuss was about the mushrooms."
as puke uters the word, a shape crashes through a nearby wall. NullAshton flys through the air, and slams into puke. Ashton stands up, looks at the other Ashton, and blinks. The two begin to argue about which is a clone. "oh, thats what the word does. crap, lets BAN THAT WORD" |
Re: what does this one do?
Yes.... Vegetables are dangerous. Let's not mention any of those, shall we? Now, you know what else is dangerous? An Irishman whose been without Guinness for nearly a month! Get me some of that sweet sweet black stuff, stat!
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
One (serioud) question tho: Why can't one say "mushrooms" or "onions" in here?
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As SiU asks his ill fated question, a trap door in the floor opens next to him. a wave of onions arcs up from the hole that the monster-onion left, and batters SiU as it flys through the room and rains back down into the new trapdoor.
To observers, it looks as if SiU has been caught in a solar-flare of onions. Wood splinters as another Ashton is fired through a nearby wall, and slams into SiU. The pair of them tumble into the trapdoor, thus avoiding the problems of having a third Ashton in the room. Before the door snaps shut behind them, SiU is heard to say "seeeeriously guuuuys whyyyy caaaaant iiiii saaaaay....." and his voice trails off into the distance. Puke throws a rug over the other hole in the floor, and sets a large table on top of it. "okay guys, enough of this sillyness now. someone hang pictures over those ashton-holes, or something. this place is getting drafty." |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
AdmiralMartin goes around putting pictures of himself over all the holes in the wall. After looking at them closely he frowns, goes away and comes back with some glass cleaner and then starts polishing them.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
I dunno, I go away for a brief time and when I get back, that silly sheep molester from Carlisle is doing his utmost to enhance the silliness stakes in this place.
Is there no sense anymore? someone give me a beer. Also, do we have any Australians here I can take the mickey out of about their front row? |
Re: no robot bartenders
Lose your old username/password Growltiger?
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
hey you furry feline, good to see your still around, thought you got lost in a wormhole or something. hows the family doing you rascally tigga
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Nice to see you back GT. I was curious if you would be, afterall, we need a trully british perspective on things here. So I ask the dreaded questions. "What are your Opinions on: The Current English Cricket Situation and of course the French Riots, Is it genuine Civil Unrest or do the French just like a good revolution?" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Hello Mac, still around but finding less time to cruise the web as normal. Still overworked, overpaid and over here. Family is fine (another kitten due next May). Damn, I am a danger to women.
RD, well, we need some English class on this board. You don't count being from Carlisle. That is kind of like a dead dog on a termite mound, but without the charm. You probably count as foreign, or even worse, French or colonial!! only joking says he crossing fingers. English cricket? dunno, not a big cricket fan but seen enough to know that the flash in the pan that was the Ashes is probably history. Still we are losing to a good side like Pakistan, it is if Zimbabwe or Bangladesh beat us is where we really have to worry. At this time of year in any event, I lose interest in pretty much every sport except rugby. Bless Investec for sponsoring the Autumn internationals. It means middle class oiks like me can mix with all the other Piers, Harveys, Ruperts and Quentins at pubs in Richmond and sing "huzzah" when our brave boys thrash allcomers (well, actually what we sang last week was "We sh@gged Matilda we sh@gged Matilda we sh@gged Matilda and so did our mates"). French riots?, I suppose I could crack the old joke about the French being revolting but I actually think they have hit problems we may well face soon. If you allow immigration, you cannot the ignore the immigrants if you want everything to work. Corralling them in what amount to ghettos and denying their slice of the future is just asking for civil disturbance. Same may happen over in Blighty.... and yes, I have lost my old password hence the new monicker. |
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And we're still a healthy 6 millions French-Canadians up here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Quote:
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Hey, being Cumbrian isn't something I'm proud of. After all, Scotland and England only fought for centuries to decide who would end up with Carlisle.
History says the English won, but considering Carlisle is on the English Side of the border... A terrible dilema, being stuck with Carlisle or shamelessly losing to the Scots http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif |
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well congrats there you wiley old Kat. Happy it is I am for you and Mrs Tigga. Thats great, pretty soon you'll have enough kittens to form your own soccor team http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
You tell her I said Hi, and I send my warmest congrats to the both of you.. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Cats are really strange animals... they almost seem human in some ways, but I don't know to many humans who will bring you a dead mouse.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Atrocities, to you it is an expired rodent, to the cat it is like giving (and getting) a really nice and expensive present, kind of like a posh watch or something.
Mac, thanks for the thanks. Clan Growltiger are all well. Growltiger Junior is turning into a pretty little terror, but hey ho, she will take after me then..... hope the Mac Posse are all good and that you are getting decent letching opportunities. RD, yep, what a bind? we get Carlisle and Berwick or have to admit losing to the Jocks. Personally, I would have gone for a strategic withdrawal just after we whipped their hairy Gaelic derrieres so that we could have "retired" with honour. I mean, we could have always quoted dietary differences or something. Still means all Cumbrians molest sheep on a regular basis. Paladin, sorry mate but you fall within the mother of all horrors, a colonial and a Frenchman, merde alors, a French Canadian!! (is that what they call a Canuck or whatever it is?) only joking |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Congratulations.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
And what's so wrong with living in one of the formerly British Colonies? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif After all, we didn't all come from Britain. Norway! And my British ancestors (of which there were a few) didn't revolt like those Americans did! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif One more point in our favor; we speak proper English here, not like those people in Britain... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif ***Ducks behind something large***
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Renegade,
Beleive me, I have no objection to the former British colonies, and especially those that are still part of the happy commonwealth family. I have been to Canada several times, and along with New Zealand, it rates as one of the places I really try not to visit on holiday cos I know I am just going to have to emigrate there (if they let me in). Nice countries the pair of them, and I dont think the English have any problem with Canadians or Kiwis (or Aussies for that matter), although given Saturday's performance, I am boring ever Kiwi I know with remarks about how lucky they were to beat England at the rugby. |
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Post deleted...it was rather stupid. Blame it on lack of sleep.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Of course the problem with "Former British colonies" is narrowing it down. That one phrase encompasses 1/4 of the globe so isn't especially helpfull.
Hell even "Former British colonies that are still part of the Commonwealth" is still pretty wide. Antigua for instance is a wonderfull sun kissed democratic paradise. Zimbabwe isn't. Not even a little bit. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
El Phil,
They are a couple of good points. My ancestors imperialistic tendencies certainly have resulted in the "Empire" covering a large proportion of the globe, and still I believe being the largest imperial dominion the world has ever seen. That being said, can I make it clear that it is not something I am proud of as an Englishman. Colonisation is all very well, but effectively subjugating native peoples in the name of progress is not a antecedent I particularly like, nor is our military history where plucky group of British soldiers armed with rifles and cannon and sometimes machine guns defeated vast armies of brave spear wielding natives (oh Isandhlwana is still taken as a measure of huge respect for the bravery of the Zulus). It is certainly true that there were benefits for many peoples and countries of our imperial largesse. The Pax Anglica and general rise in living standards, education and healthcare for the colonies was impressive. However, not sure myself that gave us the right to act the way we did. Personally, I have always wondered what would have become of the African continent and its peoples if us Westerners (and I include most European nations in this) had left well alone. Given that there were African nations with highly developed cultures, artwork, smelting techniques etc etc, one can only wonder what the continent would have now become if the colonial led deforestation procedures had not caused famine in a chunk of the land. Now the commonewealth I do have more respect for, albeit its teeth are not very sharp, and we seem to be unable to do anything about Zimbabwe. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
The entire colonial period was far less than perfect it is true, but you really can't judge what happen by modern standards. Compared to what the other colonial powers were doing (Spain instantly springs to mind, but there were others) England was one of the nicer ones relatively speaking.
By the standards of the time colonising and 'civilising' the rest of the globe wasn't a right, it was a duty, even a holy command if you listened to the Popes of the time. Different times, different values is my main point I suppose. Given nothing especially technical had developed in sub-Saharan Africa before Europeans I do wonder why anything would suddenly happen given more time. That is a bit of a sweeping generalisation I admit, but it's solid. The artwork, cultural, etc was around. The smelting metalurgy or anything similar I hadn't heard of it and would seriously doubt. North Africa is a different kettle of fish however, but I'll hold my hands up and say I'm a bit shaky about that part of the world. However I do remember that Ethiopia had a very advanced civilisation that never really recovered from Italian gas attacks. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
From what I've heard and read, Ethiopia today would be a large agricultural producer if the country wasn't corrupt and mismanaged. You can't blame historical mistakes for all the problems in Sub-Saharan African or Ethiopia or all those other not-so-nice countries. Sure, blame past mistakes for some of it, but blame the barbaric warlords who took power after the colonial period was finished for a lot of the probems today.
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You think the English have a terrible colonial history?!? Just look up Dutch colonialism and I'm sure you'll find we were a lot worse, trust me. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Ethiopia, home of the Kingdom of Prestor John amongst others, had most of it's smart elite shot/killed by the Italian invasion. Then had it's post ww2 border with Eritea drawn so spectacularly badly that war was inevitable. Hence the warlords and general instability. Neither side has any money so no-one can land a knock out blow, so the war rumbles on for decades.
Dutch colonial history? Isn't that being fairly inept before being beaten up by Spanish/English/Anyone else who was passing? And no Surinam and Seff Afrika don't count! |
Re: what does this one do?
Well, for starters we founded New York. Traded it to the English for Surinam later, so that sucked, but still. Some of the names in NY are still reminiscent of their Dutch names (for example, Staten Island, Brooklyn (Breukelen), Wall Street (Walstraat) etc.).
Look at Indonesia. In the 19th/early 20th century we began to completely exploit and submit it. The conquest of Aceh around 1900 was bloody to be sure, the so-called "Police" Actions in response to Sukarno's declaration of independence wiped out entire kampongs, Vietnam-style, oh and did I mention the Dutch were avid slave-traders before the Portuguese acquired their virtual monopoly? I could also post this map, but I decided against it. Oh and Phil, I was mainly talking about the 17th century (called the "Golden Century" here), in which time we were NOT beaten up by the English/Spanish/whoever, but when we practically ruled the oceans, with no-one matching our navy. Sure, later we got kicked about, but especially in the early 17th century we could dish out some serious punishment. Also Note the fact that in the 16th/17th century we (a tiny tiny agrarian nation) managed to gain full independence from the might of the Spanish. So much for being beaten up, eh? |
Re: what does this one do?
Traded? There was me thinking it was the Duke of York's warships (hence the name) that forced you out!
The dutch never ruled the oceans, not even close. Merchant trade yes, naval might no. Independence from Spain, well you did get a lot of help with that from both England and France. It was still a big achievement, took you 80 years admitedly, but then you can't rush these things can you? |
Re: what does this one do?
Credit to the Dutch I must say. They did technically win the 2nd and 3rd Anglo-Dutch Wars. And the rise of the British Royal Navy to it's dominance of the seas was helped by the small issue of getting the majority of the Dutch Navy placed under our command. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
You guys must have had the worst negotiators ever, The Dutch certainly ended up with the short end of the stick after the Glorious Revolution of 1688. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Well, the least the bastard could've done was merge the thrones and create one single Anglo-Dutch country, then we would've kicked some serious Frog butt, and the Spanish wouldn't have their Mexican silver mines and Manila Galleon operations once the Anglo-Dutch fleet showed up and pounded the living daylights out of them.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Chaps,
I tend to agree with a lot of this. I am not an expert Anglo-Dutch historian so cannot comment in detail, but as an Englishman, I have to say that two European nations which are strikingly similar to the English are the Dutch and the Danes. I did kind of wonder if this was due to the Saxons, Frisians and Danes all coming from pretty much originating from the same part of Europe. May be it is, who knows. As English, we only tend to remember Campertown (where we whupped the Dutch big style). Got some indonesian friends who are not very polite about Dutch colonialism for some reason. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
El Phil
I cannot remember the reference, but I do recall watching a very good documentary at Uni about an African nation in the circa 1400-1600 somewhere round present day Nigeria. It talked about their highly developed artwork, culture and mentioned that they had smelting technology which in certain areas was more advanced than Europe. I think it fell apart in civil war etc Given the links between the Arabs and East Africa, if Europe had not stuck their noses in, and the arabic nations of North Africa had been left to get on with it (no one can argue that the Moorish states were more advanced (certain from a cerebral basis) than the Christian states in 1400-1500) one must wonder what would have happened and what they would be like now. Time to get a cup of coffee and stare out of the window for two hours whilst I cogitate. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Really I wasn't aware of that, developed civilisation in Nigeria. Blimey. It must have fallen apart fairly comprehensively to 'disapear' for all pracitcal purposes. Given the prevelance of copper around there, the Nigerian copper belt was and is huge, I would suspect copper working/smelting. Technical, versitile and significantly different from where Europe was heading towards Iron/Steel.
As for what would have happened had Europeans left Africa alone, it depends when you cut the links I suppose. The number system we use to this day is Arabic not Roman, I do remember something along the lines of Italian city state merchants bringing it back from North Africa. Don't forget ideas and inventions went both ways across the Med, cultures were 'Mediteranean' not 'South European'. |
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
English or otherwise, coffee is the grease that oils the wheels of industry!! (actually, I drink the coffee because the tea they have in my office is horrible!)
I'll see what I can dig up on the Nigerian civilisation. Cannot remember what it was called off hand. Agree completely that ideas flow both ways, but I suppose my point is that if you left the African continent to develop by way of the flow of ideas rather than the rather large boot of colonialism, would have been interesting to see what happens. Like what would the Zulu nation have grown into if left to its own devices and not us Britishers and the Dutch stomping all over and around it? Just a thought. Maybe we would have Italian style city states throughout the African continent, maybe they would have been the agricultural and economic powers of the Western world, what would have happended if it was them rather than the Europeans who colonised America, what would have happended if I had bumped into Angelina Jolie when young rather than the current Mrs Growltigga... To many ifs, not enough coffee and certainly not enough time to stare out of the window speculating |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Africa was a rather well-cultured continent in some places with sophisticated artwork, technology, cities, actual non-famine, until the Europeans came and decided to "civilize" the place, turning it into the mess (major understatement here) it is today.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
We've no idea Strat. We never do, that's the problem. :p
For a real question, what would have happened if the Spanish/Portugese hadn't pissed all over South America. Then stamped some more. Then started being really nasty to the place. You could argue that stopping the Atzecs was probably a good thing, I have never been a big fan of tens of thousands of people being sacrificed alive to dark gods on a regular basis. However the Inca and many other advanced tribes, aside from a slight Llama obsession, didn't do anything to deserve extinction. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
*sigh* Ok, one last time.
During the Dutch rule of Indonesia (or the Dutch East Indies, as they were called back then) we (the Dutch) exploited them (the Indonesians) like they were animals. They suffered from poverty and famine, while the Dutch governors, merchants and whatnots led luxurious lives in their spacious country houses, waited on hand and foot by Indonesian servants. We conquered the northern part of Sumatra (Aceh) in a bloody war, wiping out entire villages. When they declared their independence, we sent in troops to repeat the actions of the conquest of Aceh only then A.) they had more modern weapons and B.) we called it a "police" action. Get the point now? |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
So pretty standard colonialism fresh from the Spanish/Portugese book of exploitaion, only without the protective cloak of those fun (and child) loving dress wearers at the Catholic church?
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Sounds a bit like us British...
You can imagine some ludricrously moustachioed upper class prat saying "I know we are at peace with those Zulu fellahs, but the peasants back at Blighty always like a decent victory to keep them in tip top condition. What say we gather 5,000 of our red coat chappies and go and give them wretched natives and jolly good kicking, what? oh, and dont forget the cavalry, cannon, rockets, Martini-Henry repeating rifles, machine guns and all that stuff, I know them Zulus only have spears and immense bravery but those spears do look rather sharp dont cha know - I wouldn't want to get put out for my next rugger game"...... Which probably explains why we lost at Isandhlwana. Sun Tzu waxed lyrical about the pitfalls of a general being an arrogant incompetent pillock who massively underestimated his enemy. I suppose the problem we have is that (excluding the Boer war and the War of Independence in the states (which happened when we were embroiled in huge punch ups in Europe), Britain has pretty much won all its wars (not battles mind you but wars) and I suppose this kind of lead to a gung ho and arrogant approach to things. People need to lose every know and then to keep it real. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
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Also, anyone else noticing the sudden intellectual atmosphere here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Honestly what did you expect to be done? "Let's go fight chaps, but leave behind the best weapons. Yes I know they outnumber us thousands to one, but we should try and fight on their terms."
The British Army was legendarily small once you took out those regiments that were just heavily armed colonial police. All the guns were needed to counter the fact there were never many men, and quantity has a quality all of it's own as the saying goes. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
which is much like my local empire, technology replacing manpower. the more things change, and all that.
honestly, i hope we see more of it. not colonialism and imperialism NECESSARILY, but technolgoy replacing manpower. more advanced and autonomous weapons, less people shooting them. more automated factories and robots, less underpaid workers. of course, this brings about other changes. like a requirement to retrain the workforce or have a generation of welfare pensioners. the requirement to either develop more jobs in the science and tech industry for the next generation, or to breed alot less. |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Breeding will not slow down. There's an exponential quality to it that can't be undone, and we live longer now. Look at what's happening to Chevrolet and their pension problem.
Also, I'm a firm believer in the Second Law of Thermodynamics and all its corollaries. Society will not better itself; it will unravel and go backwards for awhile and be replaced by something else. There will be a backlash to technology and its replacement of the work force, and once China becomes the world economic power... well... Suddenly I feel ill. Enough for now... T[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] |
Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
That view of the future will never come to pass.
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Re: Not Quite THAT Poor!!
Strat, they were not really wars as such, but minor fleet actions, akin to the scraps we had with the Danes, the Russians and pretty much every other minor European power other than the Prussians (who didn't have much of a navy) and the French (who did). The only "official" Anglo-Dutch war(at least accordingly to my History of Britain) was the one that resulted in Camperdown (and we all know what happened there).
On the general comment about how society will progress, I cannot really comment, but as a new father, I do really worry about the world my children will grow up in - declining fuel resources, climate change, globalisation leading to a more fragile economy, increasing urban crime and violence, escalating costs etc etc etc Make's me kind of glad that I will probably have shuffled off this mortal coil by 2050. Re the remark about leaving best weapons behind, taking the Zulu campaign as an example, there were 10,000 brits (and local allies) and about 30000 zulus. A major imbalance on nummbers I agree, but not when you add in cavalry, cannon, guns etc - fully take the point about not leaving the weaponry at home, but I do wander what these Victoria and Edwardian "men of honour" really had going through their heads when they decided to whup native peoples with modern weaponry..... not nice really |
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