Re: Early Age Commentary
 

afaik when you cast utterdark, the next turn its already working --> that means -90% income = not enough money to pay for the upkeep = mass desertations = everyone who has not lots of troops that dont cost upkeep will be very death.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

I have only seen 1 other water nation so far, and it's not LA R'Lyeh. I really don't know where my younger, crazier cousin is.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

The mass desertion is not "all at once" but drags out over many turns.. If it was dispelled the next turn or the turn after it was cast the end effect would be a very minimal. Leaders are exempted from desertion.

Again I have no intention of even trying to cast Utterdark or BoT. To many people here to bring it down. LA R'yleh would love for me to cast it - it would take some of the heat off of him.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

If you were to make a firm commitment that you will NOT cast BoT or Utterdark for the entire game, even at the cost of complete Victory or utter Annihalation, then I think the pressure would certainly shift towards LA R'lyeh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Sounds like a political barter.
I will sign a world-pact that I will NOT cast forth the dreadful magics of.......... in return for a united nations sanction against the dreadful nation of .........

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Can we get the blood nations to commit not to cast Astral Corruption?

Actually, the way things are developing, R'lyeh will probably branch into blood magic and cast it himself.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Me, casting astral corruption? That must be the stupidest thing I can ever do. LA R'leyh is the second hardest nation to branch into blood, after LA Ermor. I do not have many provinces over water and my dominion is killing off my population. Without my astral magic I have nothing to come with.

As far as I know there is just whining in this thread. I'm far, very very far from wining the game. I'm not expanding closly as much as EA Oceania or LA Atlantis. My dominion is killing my income.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Yeah people have an irrational amount of fear about LA Rlyeh, LA ermor is the real threat people need to work against for sure. Look what he did to poor niefelheim and that guy was using a killer bless, people need to unite or he will kill all one by one !

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Naturally it would make alliance-forging much easier if people won't try to twist reality to match their current short-term (near-sighted) goals. What good to anti-R'lyeh alliance does using it to attack the reputation of a nation that has been valiantly defending itself from Man's lapdog?

Unless, of course, we should all capitulate to Man's rule lest R'lyeh win? Right. Makes, um, "sense". We thank again for the insight of Knight Bright Insight (61+).

Naturally, an agreement to bring the leader down is a good thing. However, needless smear-campaigns are less so.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

I for one seem possessed by a degree of irrational fear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

EA Ermor has bitten the dust after being overrun by the starved, disease ridden barrel-scrapings of LA R'yleh (I assume their first class troops are being used elsewhere).

EA Ermor has been set to AI and I wish all those who aim to curb LA R'yleh well. I am not bitter .... but in every game I play where there is LA R'yleh represented, it is located next door and ain't friendly.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

I know for a fact that Patala had the sword Augelmeyer.

The only way he could've gotten it would be to buy it from R'lyeh - or to be loaned it, just for the sake of hurting other potential enemies.

Therefore, Patala is allied with R'lyeh. I would guess that he's also been capitulating to R'lyehs other demands, but I don't know that for a fact.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

*booo* The ghost of Midgard can now happily say "I told you so."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Jazzepi

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

So, a succesful transaction of goods equals alliance? Great! They must be telling the grand truth when they say economic relations enforce peace.

MA Agartha is happy to know they're among the allies of Man, after all, they've exchanged goods before as proven by message exchanges properly archived. A nation of dying race can't have too many friends!

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Wait... MA Agartha? I didn't trade anything with MA Agartha.

I did trade with both MA C"tis and LA Atlantis.

The point is, since R'lyeh is so dominant, no mutually beneficial relations of any kind can be tolerated. The first thing we need to do is conquer all of R'lyehs neighbours who are *not* obviously at war with R'lyeh.

Victory Conditions
 

What are everyone's thoughts on establishing a set turn where we end the game? My proposal:

Victory Conditions: The surrendering of all other players or 650 provinces controlled or the most provinces controlled by turn 125 (whichever comes first). Ties for the latter would be broken by the amount of provinces held the previous turn.

I'm in a large game now that is on turn 101 - so I don't think that 125 is unattainable.

We would need the buy-in of at least 90% of the players to make this change...

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Ok, I let a tangent run away from me, I'm gonna keep it there but its pretty irrelevant (and long-windedly useless).

125 Should be fine, we've already got folks dominating research/construction/summons at turn 44. From then on its just strategy. 40% are out already, another good chunk will be out by 80 and by 125 I bet the remaining 5-10 will be sick of the micro http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I passed my goal of turn 20, not going to win, so I'm good whenever.


Tangent Ramble
--------------------------------------------------------
Even though I suggested turn 60 earlier, I was thinking along the lines of future games where it would be like a distinct subsection of the whole.

62 nations, many never see each other physically, but hear about their activities. Diplomats get sent, trade agreements, etc. 60 months pass and a whole lot of stuff happens, maybe a very peaceful corner just plays tiddlywinks while the rest of the world is embroiled in war. Turn 60 (more likely 80), everything gets tallied, winner declared and everyone finishes it off single player while the next game is set up. Possibly have multiple winners, highest research, provinces, income, etc. Start a "big board" to keep score and update it every couple of months.

Variations of that would be a Early Age, Mid Age, Late Age scenario.
Early Age - this game, everyone starts at 0 on everything
Mid Age - 40 nations, Start with x sages to simulate research, x provinces, x gems/known sites/etc, x gold/pop, x turn global NAP. Try to simulate turn 40. Ironhawk had a couple games like this and they seemed fun.
Late Age - 20 nations, x sages/gold/provinces, etc and then go at it after x turns. Try to simulate turn 80.

Possibly even run it as a tourney... hmm.

When the early (perpetuality-type) is down to 40 players, stop and declare winners. Winners get a gold star and a hug from KO.
Start up the "mid-game" with enhanced starting positions to simulate turn 40. Everything is nice and clean, very little micro, tons of cash to play with and a set of turns to do so. Play until 20 are left. Once down to 20, declare winners, get yer hugs.
Start up a "late-game" with those 20, simulating turn 80. All your research is advanced (tons of free sages or a mod), upkeep is manageable, everything is clean, set everything up like you want, etc. Gives everyone a renewed chance at summons/artifacts, new sites, etc. Play down to 1.

A few weeks after the mid game has started, start up another early game, rinse, repeat. Or possibly skip the whole Mid-game idea and go right late game.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Can this game be won by an alliance instead?
For example: Max of 5 nations per alliance. Alliance has to be declared formally on these boards 5 turns in advance. Alliance that holds 650 provinces for 3 turns in succession after the 5 turn official notice wins.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Officially no. That was never part of the Victory Conditions and I'm sure some people might have been playing differently if was.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

That would be interesting for the next megagame. One of the things I wish this game had was a more detailed diplomacy/cooperation engine. I know it's built around 1 god only can live to the end, but as an option for these MP games, I would love to see more detailed things like: supplying foreign troops, cooperation, land grants, etc.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I'm sorry but I have turned ill. I propose you wait with hosting until Evilhomer can find a new sub or that I feel well again.

I do not believe LA R'lyeh will have any chances of winning the game. Since LA Ermor, LA Atlantis and EA Lanka are allied and have several other mid sized nation allied to them as well a winner will probably be picked out of that alliance.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I would not create a fix time for victory, as aslong people want to play let them play (or is there a significant part already bored of the game??). If one is too far in front, its always possible to gang on him, and if that does not work declare him winner.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

Particularly after I donated all my gold and gems to LA R'lyeh to destroy you and the giants to the north...those backstabbers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

But I must agree with you that LA R'lyeh is probably the most annoying nation in the game...

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I'll start looking for a sub now. This might cause a delay in hosting since LA R'lyeh affects so many people.

Folket, let us know when you are back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Early Age Commentary
 

The war between Patala and me (LA Ctis) doesn't concern Ma Man in any way. And honestly, and don't see why it concerns you. But yes, Patala is valiantly defending himself. Lucky/ethereal elephants can trample an impressive number of lizards before being stopped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It's about my fourth Dom3 multiplayer game, and I'm learning a lot. Especially about diplomacy and economics between players.

If it please you, you can insult me because I'm smaller than my ally. Have fun!

Arameyan

Re: Victory Conditions
 

As someone pointed out allowing a delay for the game for a powerful player isn't exactly fair when I've been turning them down for smaller ones. So there will be no delay. Hopefully we will find a sub soon!

Re: Victory Conditions
 

ACCUSATIONS!

It has been asserted that LA R'yleh is backing up MA C'tis with Mind Hunt. MA C'tis is already getting gangbanged, so it really doesn't matter if this is true from that point.

However, this also implicates MA Pythium - possibly MA T'ien Ch'i as well.

These nations are far from me, but I think you should eliminate them all, just be safe.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Lets start the Rlyeh witchhunt, everyone accused has to denounce at least 2 other nations to be influenced by the void or else the fun will end way too soon.

btw. i have some information, that some people in this game actually share the bed with ermor.

Also who does say that it was not ermor who casted the mind hunts, so that it looks like rlyeh was it and you can begin to attack nations that ermor knows that would never join him.

You cant forget, that even when Rlyeh is strong, the real evil comes from Ermor, and that every bad event that happens to you is actually the doing of ermorian agents.

And at the end some question, how can you say who has cast the mindhunts, afaik they are anonymous, so nations like marignon, pythium, the other rlyes, arco, thien chi could also easily be behind this.

p.s. the next big game, i will take MA Marignon, just for the sake of RPG

Re: Victory Conditions
 

*scratches off MA Pangaea (Hadrian II) from his Christmas card list*

MA Pangaea and LA R'lyeh siting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I...

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Well I guess it's ok that I got knocked out of this game. I gave LA Ry'leh a Dwarven Hammer to get him to agree to a NAP early on in the game. It mostly benefited me cause there was no way I was going into the water then, but if it was still intact I guess I'd be pretty high on everyones [censored] list.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I have zero contact with R'lyeh. But at the moment, i seem to be the only one who thinks that Ermor will become the bigger problem (everyone who thinks different might take a look at the provinces graph for the last turn). Also, ermor leaver a big spot of scorched earth on the map, what rlyeh does not.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

LA R'lyeh doesn't scorch earth quite as fast as LA Ermor, but it does scorch earth.

Also, Ermor gets easier and easier to deal with as we move towards the late game. The same is not true of R'lyeh, who is still going to be hard to counterattack in the friggin' water.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I actually wish I had a powerful ally like LA Rlyeh. There is not anything more that the LA Atlantis Alliance can do to me anyway.

So sure, if LA Rlyeh wants to be my ally, I openly invite you to aid me in any way possible. Not that I have much to offer in return, but hey, I am feisty!

What I would want from a powerful ally though, rather than mind hunts, would be some astral travel to key provinces that have low pd. Those i would be more than happy to point out to LA rlyeh, or any other race wanting some free provinces.

Also, I invite all races to send me death gems. Every death gem i get will translate to dead LA Atlantis troops.

EDIT: OOOPS! I no longer share any borders with LA Atlantis. Lest I be accused of "dishonestly" let me issue a clarification. All death gems received will be translate into dead LA Atlantis' Alliance troops. Though I would LOVE to see LA Atlantis troops in my swamps again-even though their stay will be as exceedingly short as LA Man's has been.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I think it would be better for LA Atlantian troops to die while fighting rlyeh, than to be wasted in the deep north.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I am voting against any turn limit victories. To win, you will be required to kill every last lizard! AND EACH OTHER.

Notice that Velusion has not promised to refrain from casting utterdark or BOT. In fact my suggestion that BOT be voted on was ignored. If utterdark or BOT were to be cast, who could dispel it after LA Rlyeh is defeated?

My only solace is that there can be 1 true winner to this game. 1 nation. Not an alliance consisting of the most powerful nations that was likely put together before the game even began.

Yes, they may stop the game after the LA Atlantis/LA Ermor
alliance has defeated the hodge podge of other nations fighting singly. But if they do it will be a hollow victory
and certainly not one requiring more than average skill to achieve.

So my vote is for the original victory conditions stated at the outset to remain in place.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

At the rate they hatch, it may take awhile for this to happen. I vote the same way if it comes down to a vote.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Hello folks. Just wanted to say that I have no problem with a delay and waiting for a player, but I don't particularly like the idea of a 'timed' victory condition.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Ummm... everyone else?

But ok... I promise not to ever cast Utterdark or Burden of Time unless I'm in danger of being eliminated. All better now?

Now try and get the blood nations to promise not to cast Arcane Corruption! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Utterdark, BoT and Arcane Corruption can be dispelled i think it would become much uglier if someone begins to wish for armageddon (it has almost game ruining qualities).

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Does a wished for Armaggeddon affect both land and water provinces equally? If so I don't see how it can be useful since it affects everyone, lasts one turn only, and is really costly at 100 astral gems. And how many percent of the provinces of the world does it affect? 50%? 60%?

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Zolharm will be subbing for me (EA Pangea) for next week (till Sunday August the 5th). In that time any potential diplomatic inquiries should be directed to him.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Armaggeddon kills just 20% of armies and population (but not in every province) so its much uglyer than most other spells, as all other spells can be dispelled, armaggeddon does his damage and thats it. (and it has the quality to be casted on defeat to annoy everyone else)

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Umm no Velusion. You should not be finding a sub for LA Rlyeh. You are at war with them. That is what is called a conflict of interest. When a conflict of interest arises, most judges recuse themselves from the case.

Since I am already LA Rlyeh's supposed ally, I will do their turn for them until I can find a sub. You all should not have any objection to that since we are already "sharing information" and they are "casting mind hunts for me."

I suggest a 24 hour delay to hosting until this is resolved. LA Rlyeh is a super power in the game and it is going to be tainted if they stale turn. LA Ermor has already taken advantage of LA Rlyeh's stale turn to rape MA Vanheim-if the graphs are accurate.

If the game is delayed 24 hours, I can find a quality replacement for LA Rlyeh. One that will impartially serve LA Rlyeh's interests, not LA Ermor and LA Atlantis' interests.

Re: Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Started)
 

Why isn't this still in effect? Finding a sub is good, but a stale or two won't kill him.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I believe Velusion is just adhering to and enforcing the game rules set forth in the first post regarding zero tolerance for delays.

The game's rules for stale turns should apply equally to all players, regardless of their strength or influence. Making any exception, especially one for a dominant player, is unfair to others who have staled and is bound to benefit some players and confound others, depending on their positions. Sticking to the game rules is the only impartial course of action.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Actually, if you read the entire post, the reason for the no delay rule was there were 62 players. The game, while still huge, has fewer players.

And the fact is if MA Ctis staled a few turns, it would not affect the outcome of the game at all. But LA Ermor and LA Rlyeh occupy unique positions. And I think we all know that.

With so many nations already eliminated or on ai, will a 24 hour delay hurt so a sub can be found for one of the 2 superpowers? And believe it or not, my position would be the same if Velusion needed to delay host 24 hours for his own benefit.

I have suggested a sub already to velusion. One who I believe is above reproach and has a great reputation on the board. But even if he accepts(have not heard from him yet as to his interest), he would need at least 24 hours to acclimate himself to the game.

Evilhomer, if you are out there, give me your proxy for finding you a sub! And hurry. The clock is ticking.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

The rules state that the threshold is 15 remaining players before timeouts will be taken to find subs.

Personally, it does not matter to me whether there is a delay to find a sub, and in retrospect, it probably would have been better to set this threshold a bit higher or to have defined it differently.

The intention of my post was to point out that Velusion could not be accused of serving his own interests by just enforcing the rules we began the game with. In all his games in which I have particpated, I have found his conduct as host to be admirable and beyond reproach.

Finally, a look at the status page now shows a completed move for LA R'Iyeh, so R'Iyeh will not stale this turn. Perhaps in spite of his illness, Folket felt well enough to prevent R'Iyeh from staling by completing a move.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Agreed Solo.

Sometimes my words coma across like a war hammer instead of a dove. I in fact did not mean to imply Velusion was doing anything underhanded. As I told him privately, he has done a wonderful service to Dominions III in hosting this game. And I feel it will have far reaching, or should have far reaching, implications.

But I do think a 24 hour pause at this point in the game, where half of the 62 players are dead or on AI, and even more are staling or have no hope, would be in the game's best interests. And I wish to reiterate, if I was going to stale, I would not even bother to ask for a 24 hour delay because it would be a minor event in the big picture.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

I have been appointed to find a sub for LA Rlyeh. To preserve the integrity of the game, I am not going to look at the turn as long as I am given 24 hours to find a capable sub.

If I was not honest, I would just do LA Rlyeh's turns and keep my mouth shut. But I am honest, and I will look to find an impartial player who most people know and respect.

My 1st choice is Llamabeast. I have not heard from him though. If the game is not delayed by 24 hours, and I can not find a good sub, I will be forced to look at his turn and play it.

I will promise in the event that occurs, to state that it has occurred. Under no circumstance will I transfer any items, gold, or gems to any other nation including mine. Or cast any spells on any of the nations in my part of the world that would aid MA Ctis in my own personal war.

In the meantime, I will try and get llamabeast to play the turn. If he will not play it I will, I promise to find a sub before the next turn takes place. If I do play the turn, I will allow gandalf to look at the LA Rlyeh turn file to ascertain that I did nothing improper.

And for the record-I was never LA Rlyeh's ally. We just have a common enemy.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

Xietor,

I really appreciate your help looking for a sub. I know you are just trying to help but...

As per the Velusion's Games Thread:
...playing two nations in the same game is strictly forbidden.

You'll also find that trying to play two nations with the same Cd-Key will make one or both nations stale when the turn hosts.

I assume you are the one that completed LA R'lyeh's turn so I'm going to delete that submitted turn from the server to comply with the rules and to insure that your primary nation doesn't stale!

I fully support you in finding a sub though! Once you have someone please have him post in this thread.

Re: Victory Conditions
 

No, I did not even look at the turn.