Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Will send in the turn ASAP, but have to get back to the conference. It'll be in around noon EST (U.S.).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Okay, my turn is in.

Frank still isn't getting turns, though? I suppose it doesn't matter for this one.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Frank Trollman has been added to the e-mail list for Ulm. Gandalf can confirm by checking the file and reporting here. It may be an issue with Frank's e-mail client (spam filters, etc).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The hosting of the rollback is proceeding, no posts to the contrary or objections regarding Arco. The submission of the turns by DrP and Illuminated, evidence of their previously expressed wish to do the rollback.

Good luck, and I hope no one took advantage of any new information, it will be known if you did. ;)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I sent it this morning.... sending again.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hmm, the turn has hosted but I didn't get a mail. Please resend to me.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Arco turn is corrupt. So is Mictlan. Am going to try to delete files and redownload.

Nevermind. that worked.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'm resending to you just in case, though Gandalf has already probably handled it.

Seems I made a slight mistake in the e-mail turns list, this appears to have been the reason why Frank didn't get a .trn file and may have been the reason you didn't get yours.

I trust everything is resolved now though.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Yeah, thanks got the turn now.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Game update:

We will be moving to a 72 hour host as of next turn, the polling having resulted in 4 to 0 in favor.

Team news:

The Deva abomination calling itself Knife Brite Insight has been vanguished.

I've completed an update to the NaV II Preview (see attachment).

Included is information on the Atlantian Freelancers/Privateers/Mercs:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6637/freelancers.jpg

In order to retain thematic path purity and to ensure no team has the same pretenders, I've generally excluded certain rainbow pretenders and pretenders with paths that conflict with the main paths of the teams.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Pros and Cons.
The design of the next game is becoming more scenario than most seem used to.
Of course I like it and would like to see more heavily themed and planned out games offered.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Glad to hear you like it Gandalf.

Yes, I generally put quite a bit of planning into most of my games. I enjoy the planning almost as much as the game itself. If I don't participate this makes it even more important.

Is this becoming more a niche game? Perhaps, I suppose some will be strongly drawn to the concept, others may not like it. I certainly won't put a gun to anyone's head to play (well maybe just a few :p). Victory conditions remain the same as any other team game.

Your right, it is good and important that we as a community continue to innovate in game design and offer game choices to players. Sometimes you just get tired of the same old, same old. FFA, Team, Comp Stomp, Team + Comp Stomp (NaV), RPG or Theme based, it's important to have all these types of games available for players not just games that really only differ from one another in in-game settings or map size.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I know that grudge is travelling today (returning from Ft. Lauderdale.). Can we have an extra 24 hours please?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Currently 14 hours left on the clock.

Turns still outstanding:

arcoscephale
caelum
kailasa
mictlan
niefelheim
pangaea
sauromatia
tirnanog

Extension request recieved.
NaV.cfg = 64 + 24 = 88 hours.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

OK... I have internet (yay!). Only 1 week to get something done that should have taken 2 days. Anyway, I'll get mine in tonight.

Chris

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Yeah, the last 10 turns have been that way.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Ok, I've been sick since saturday, and I find it unlikely I'll actually have enough brain to finish a turn in the next 12h. I know we already extended once for 24h, but if we can do it again I'd appreciate it.

(Been totally screwing up my other games, but its only affecting me in those other games)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'm adding 12 hours to the 4 hours currently on the clock.

Nav.cfg now reads 100 hours.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The following disclaimer will be included in the opening post of NaV II, it is also applicable to this game somewhat, and should have been posted, but this was very much a test run and at least a few things did not go as planned:

"Due to the size, scope, and communication required in team games in general (particularly this one), this game requires a substantial time commitment. Please do not join as an active participant (in the starting player slots) if you are involved in more than 1 other game unless you have a lot of free time on your hands."

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Just for the record sept.. I don't have *any* other games.
Life happens.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Seriously, I subbed into this because the team really needed someone. I had not planned on playing in such a massive game beforehand, and I stepped in because there was a need. Heck, I didn't even sign up for an alternate spot.

Regardless, 4 days is not an unreasonable amount of time per turn for a team game at this stage. I might have a turn in before it hosts given the current hosting time.

Perhaps I should sub out. Not that there seems to be an overabundance of people desiring to sub into this game. But its becoming increasingly clear that allowances for real life aren't living up to expectations. My team is already down a player, however, so it feels wrong leaving them in the lurch.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hey Gandalf/Sept...

This is the problem with two of my teammates having to make a turn in 2 hours.

Gandalf, can you respond off-line why arcosephale (who did submit a turn) got a stale result? I recognize what the likely answers are, just hoping you can tell me there is a mistake of some kind on your side = ).


Chris

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Not server side error Im afraid.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I know this...I sent in the turn with Approx 4 hours left and sent it to our 'room'. There is no possible way I could have staled.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I just checked my 'sent' file to be sure.

It went to nav@dom3minions.com at 2:31 PM CST. IF I staled I would like an explanation in terms that I can understand.:mad:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The check file said the file you sent was turn 49 instead of turn 50.

you can check this yourself by running dom3 with a verify switch. If your files are in a NaV directory then you can run
dom3.exe --verify NaV
and view the early_arcosphale.chk file you get

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Grudge - I think this may be what I did a few turns ago. If you leave the game by saving and quitting, instead of End Turn, you haven't ended your turn. The .2h won't update to the server until you end the turn.

If I'm right, is there any reason not to always quit by ending turn, as opposed to save and quit? Even when you know you're going to come back to it?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Nope, no reason whatsoever. Save and quit is purely for SP.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The more common problem is attaching a .2h while you are the turn is still open on dominions.

The turn will attach - but will be empty and blank.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Smart man. One other game is probably doable. But I certainly don't recommend more than that.

I appreciate your commitment to team. There have been plenty of allowances for real life and I will continue to make allowances when appropriate.

There are not many active team games to reference on Llamaserver in comparison with the huge number of FFA, but if you take a survey of the team and regular games there, the average is around 72 hours for games that are at or around turn 50 which is right where we are and where we should be. We also started at 32 hours, which is more lenient than most, we were at 40 hours till turn 20, which again is longer than FFA because I realize the communication needs. I haven't taken at look at the dom3minions team games, but I suspect it is probably the same. When we had huge size teams we never

Regardless, we've been far exceeding our scheduled hours on a regular, repeated, and consistent basis for quite some time now. Some of which is reasonable and could not be helped, some of which could be in my opinion. Which does concern me, because it means either I am not giving enough time to players (and the hosting interval increment needs adjustment) or players just don't have the time. Heck, when we had 12 people on a team in NvV we didn't have this problem, so something else is going on. Hence the reason for the incorporation of a that disclaimer for game 2.

Speaking of which, we should be at 72 now. I am adding 8 hours to the clock and will follow-up with Gandalf to make sure we are at 72 hours for the next 10 turns at least.

I do place a greater emphasis on team identification, immersion, and communication than many other small size team games which attempt to avoid this via smaller teams and various other artifices designed to limit or avoid these natural complexities. I certainly don't want anyone ever to complain they don't feel like they are part of a team when playing my games. I can't force communication on people, but it is really the only thing that seperates FFA games and SP games from team games.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

aaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggggggggggg

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I know it may seem like handholding; I still its a good idea for a server.

Why not reject a turn if its the wrong turn, prior to processing?

ie something like:


receive turn:
.
Various checks
.

see if turn is for current turn. If yes, accept, if not
reject and send email 'wrong turn number'.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

It already sees it and and puts it on the Turns_Check.txt

It also sends an email. I can include you on that if its ok with Septimius but bouncing back to the sender is more difficult.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Sorry guys. I really thought I had until tonight for this turn. Can I get a 6hr extension?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

With 5 turns still outstanding, I am extending the current turn 8 hours due to Stagger's request. I've asked Gandalf, if possible, to add an additional reminder e-mail at the 24 hour mark and the old will be moved from 9 hours to 8 hours.

Since adding more time to the regular clock doesn't really appear to solve anything here (the regular 8 hour increment excluded), if we reach a critical point (without any concessions) of exhaustion, disinterest, or of players being just too busy, the game will likely be wound down instead of dragged out and a winning team declared based on preponderance in the score graphs.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

In the planning for NaV II, I've decided to nix the global alternates positions. Diplomacy, inter-team communications, trade, merc hiring (if present), will be handled by default by team advisors and alternates (if present) unless otherwise waived. If no one is available for these roles, these roles will be handled by the Captain.

Three simple freelancer rules:

1. Freelancer capital is inviolate. No human team may attack and capture by any means except to pass through and only after paying suitable toll. Freelancer forts are open to attack, but freelancers must allow passage through either with toll payment.

2. Freelancers can attack indies, but may not attack AI or human teams or nations except when they've been contracted or payed to do so or in self defense. Self defense limited to retaliatory strikes (i.e. recapturing provinces, retaking forts, returning magical attacks, etc). Any provinces captured in the course of business belong to the paying client who will be responsibile for taking/retaking them. PD will be set to 1. Any unclaimed provinces may be auctioned off.

3. Freelancers may offer a range of services to human teams (assassinations, scouting, province attacks, remote attacks, forging items, etc) and are free to charge whatever they want, but must make their services available to all human teams equally and without bias. All services to be perfomed on receipt of payment in gold only.

As you know Gandalf has threatened to go ballistic on the human players in game 3. So I thought I'd have some fun and recommend some (not too serious) team names and themes to him. Here are a few:

Gandalf's Goofy Gonzos/theme = nations with beserker units/insanity dom.

Gandalf's Gore Gluttons/theme = blood

Gandalf's Groovy Gang/theme = songs and tunes

Gandalf's Gorgeous/Glamor Gals/theme = nations with at least 1 female unit

Gandalf's Grumpy Geezers/theme = nations with old age units

No offense intended of course. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

aaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggggggggggg

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

.... and the lamentations of their women...

say are we going to update to 3.24?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

If there's a new patch (and I haven't been keeping up with things), from what I recall, if/when Gandalf updates the version on the server that is running our game, then we'd all need the new patch if the nature of the patch makes it so and if memory serves me right and I am correct, the game won't allow you to play an older saved game that has not been patched.

If I am correct, and we will probably need to hear from Gandalf on this, I am of the opinion that for the duration of this game we all remain un-patched if possible. Unless that is there are some earth shattering changes in the patch that would make its adoption absolutely necessary for games in progress or someone needs to patch for participation in another game.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Totally up to the person running the game. Ive had the patch on my machines for awhile now (beta tester) but the server always copies the old exe to a different copy for games that want to continue unpatched.

You call it Septimius. Update now? next turn? next game?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Given I am in some other games, I think I prefer to remain unpatched until and unless the others start updating (the horror).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Since all my other games are llamaserver games I vote to update before next turn. That way I don't need to run two different versions.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Iam sorry, but I am with Squirrel on this...

I am in a number of games and admin in 3 of them. We are getting into the mid to late stages and I am not going to take a chance on screwing up these games if we don't need the patch.

If it works regardless if you have it or not, then I guess we can all suit ourselves. But I for one am not updating until my games have reached a conclusion as it just wouldn't be fair to the 30 some people left in them.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

YeeHAW

999 bloodslaves and we got the Arcane Nexus to boot!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Unless something has changed from what I remember it to be and the new patch is backward compatible with the previous patch saved games, we really cannot patch unless and until everyone in the game is able to follow suit (meaning a community wide patching in every game on all servers) unless we want to ditch players or force them to run two versions of the game.

If there a possibility there will be a follow-up patch to this one soon to correct any issues this patch may have introduced that the beta testers have not yet discovered, it may be wise to wait. Otherwise, I am personally fine with patching and getting it over with. Reminds me to have a look at the update log.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Grudge and those in games on Llamaserver, it would appear that Llamabeast is automatically upgrading to the new patch, affecting all games in progress. Therefore we will likely have no choice but to patch the current turn (meaning you'll need the patch) to use the next turn you receive. If someone knows something else or Llama is allowing admins to choose like Gandalf, let me know. I may institute a delay on the current turn to see what happens with Llamaserver, other games, and to give people time to patch.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Llama has always patched as soon as one becomes available. Since it seems the llamaserver has already patched, it is likely that everyone will have to patch shortly.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

In general I would recommend updating.

As far as shaking up the game, its going to become the unusual egg anyway. The servers copy will be updated and all other Dom3 games on the server will be updated. The NaV scripts, if it doesnt update, will be rewritten to use a personal copy for the game alone. It SHOULDNT be a problem but it does mean it gets a "shaking up" possibility.

And, from my experience, somebody (especially in a newbie game) will update. Thats difficult to back up from so everyone else gets forced to update.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Yes, we should update the game.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Gandalf has patched the server copy of our game. I had a question about whether the situation regarding different .2h's was the same on Gandalf's server as it was on Llamaserver, but apparently Gandalf believes it won't make a difference whether you patch and then upload the current .2h or upload then patch. Fine either way as Llama seems to have indicated.

So he recommends the following with regards to our game:

"Id say for people to patch and do their turns. And if they already did one then open it, resave, and resend."

I am adding another 24 hours to the clock to give people time to acquire and apply the patch and submit their turns. Remember, you'll need the patch to open the next turn you get whether you patch now or not.

You can get the patch here:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwint...DOM3_page.html

Good luck and happy patching!

See attached for an Updated NaVII Team Preview