Re: MBT's
 

That's my thinking as well. I just couldn't remember if we had gotten to the K2 in the same way we reached agreement on the M1A2C in modeling both the M1A2T (Taiwan) and M1A2P (Poland) which for those that don't know are in the game.

When the vacation goes back to reality at home, I'll check my MBT file as I believe one or two countries elsewhere are or are close to making a decision concerning the K2.

If so, I'll "crunch" some numbers. It'll still fall in between the K1 and K2.

Depending on the status of the K2 PIP I might "boost" the numbers in a higher % then what I'm thinking now w/o the K2 PIP in the equation.

My files with status of the other foreign sales(?) and the K2 PIP will determine if I proceed or not.

Otherwise, I'm sure we'll have a long wait in regard to Poland.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Here some info from Ukrainian side that they will receive PT-91 Twardy in near future

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...eive-3628.html

And here older article also from Ukrainian source about T-72M1 and T-72M1R which was revived from Poland in April.

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-2770.html

Re: MBT's
 

Well, according to these two sites it sounds very much like the Ukraine has received within the last week an unspecified number of PT-91 Twardy tanks. The following taken is from ref. 2 below.

"Last week, Jarosław Wolski reported that Poland had delivered PT-91 Twardy tanks to Ukraine. "We certainly won't send 230 Hard, or at least I haven't heard anything about it. On the other hand, we sent Twarde, in a significant number. The wagons reached the Ukrainians. But these are things that should simply come from the Ukrainians," he said."

Looks like Poland had originally asked the U.S. for 300 M1A1 tanks. They reduced that to 118 units due to maintenace and support costs.

So, there is our connection to the K2. Due the size of the deal as I've already posted this past week with South Korea, to my thinking this might "kill" or further delay beyond our time horizon the M1A2P.

We'll as ALREADY discussed just have to wait out the M1A2P outcome "one way or another" as to a final decision.

I had to use my translator (MS) for ref. 2.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html
https://kresy.pl/wydarzenia/rzecznik...91-na-ukraine/


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The world of international arms deals and such are murky and changing all the time.

Re: MBT's
 

Is already official PT-91 Twardy is already on Ukraine their official site Ministry of defense:

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukraine-re...s-from-poland/

https://defence24.com/polish-pt-91-t...ine-commentary

https://twitter.com/AndriyYermak/sta...-potrafia.html

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/st...-potrafia.html

https://mezha.media/en/2022/07/25/po...re-in-ukraine/

https://www-instalki-pl.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Also about new ammo with longer radius for Ukr Krab's from ... Slovakia
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-...-155mm-rounds/

Re: MBT's
 

This includes other things (not pure MBTs, but here we go)

Re: MBT's
 

Some info about captured Russian tanks in Ukrainians hands

T-80BVM
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...0bvm-3696.html

T-80UK
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...tion-3580.html

Here Russia preparing older T-62M from reserves
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...rves-3033.html

Re: MBT's
 

South Korean and Polish K2/K9 & FA-50 Trainer and Light Attack jets contract has been signed.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...0_fighter.html

No time for breakdown.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well after decades of asking and a lot of maybes from us, finally it looks as if TAIWAN is going to get their first American tanks in decades.

This is the first time a contract has been awarded and money given to support production Taiwanese tanks in in particular the M1A2T as we entered in the last patch (Along with the M1A2P). I now have more confidence in the START date but, as expressed contingent on the U.S. having to get the process going before the end of this Fiscal Year. That's now accomplished.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...or_taiwan.html

The recovery vehicle aside (Nongame issue.) they will receive both the M1070Al Heavy Equipment Transporter (HET) (As they don't have the transport capability to move those tanks.) and ammo resupply vehicles.
https://www.military-today.com/trucks/m1070a1.htm

North Macedonia I don't believe is represented in the game. And neither is the fact that they donated their T-72A tanks to the Ukraine (Though they will be getting an as yet undisclosed Western tanks as replacements to equipment a full Battalion.) going to have a game impact. However, what caught my eye was the specific ammo loadout for the T-72A. Could be useful or fall into the category of "whatever" :dk: in either case here, you have it...

"The tank carries a total of 39 rounds, 12 are APFSDS-T, 21 HE-FRAG(FS), and the remaining six HEAT-FS. The additional rounds of ammunition are stowed in racks behind the turret basket and in indentations in the rear floor fuel cell and second forward right cell near the driver. " To the second "highlighted" portion of the above para, the rest of ammo stored on the fuel cell locations, are you kidding me!?! :doh:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ern_tanks.html

Well, I guess I should shower up before the dinner bell! After playing around yesterday in "the Sun and fun at work" at a comfortable ~112 w/heat index yeah, I'm literally "chillin' out" in the "man cave"! :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I see it's been a while since I (Or anyone.) posted anything and these I've held for a bit as the dates will show. Both are important, at least to some of us anyway due to where we're talking about. And the Polish issue turned into a "cluster puck" as you'll see when you get to it. I think I got it sorted out! :rolleyes:

Morocco: I'm just going to make this easy though you'll see due to the request from them that the end of tanks as already posted is to occur in early/mid 2023. Depending on what we decide to give to Morocco. From the ref. my comments will be in bold.

"The Government of Morocco has requested to purchase enhancements to one hundred sixty-two (162) Abrams tanks procured through the Excess Defense Article (EDA) program to one of the following variants: M1A1 Situational Awareness (baseline version), M1A2M (If they get this tank it'll be the same one we built for Taiwan M1A2T and Poland M1A2P. (includes Commander’s Independent Thermal Viewer) or M1A1 U.S. Marine Corps version (includes Slew to Cue) (Well that'll be the FEP WITH armor adjustments due to DU REMOVAL.)."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...r_m1a1_sa.html

As I had already reported concerning the Foreign Sales M1A2 SEP V2 as discussed above for Morocco, the only country to see them would be TAIWAN (By the refs at the time.) before games end and the following will further back that up from those refs and my thoughts on those tanks as well at the time.
TAIWAN has gotten their first M1A2T and has started training on it with their instructors per SOP.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...d_in_june.html
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/st...04180509917185

The pictures look like that's POSSIBLY at the ABERDEEN test area.

Also scroll down on ref 2, there were already rumor's that the Ukrainians had already captured 1 or 2 of the Russian T-90M tanks. This is the first post I believe I've seen to actually show one they captured. And it looks right to me as a T-90M.

I wonder who else (Plural.) will be looking at this tank besides the Ukrainians!?! :rolleyes: :p :D

Poland: Before anyone says anything; a decision was made to enter the M1A2P in the last patch as a "Hail Mary Pass" but as the above for Taiwan has now shown the production line is slated for their tanks while we continue to convert tanks to the M1A2C.

We only have one tank production facility that's been in that role since WWII. The article below is from 2013 but useful for this discussion. Remember COVID and the resulting supply chain issues have slowed production (It's expected to take about 2yrs (Already started.) to generally recover to Pre-pandemic levels depending on the weapons system.
https://www.cnet.com/culture/before-...s-abrams-tank/

I HIGHLY recommend that Polish CHANGE/UNIT 007/M1A2P/START/NOV 2023 VICE NOV 2022. //Another "Hail Mary" maybe.

Some I feel are still doubting me hear so from JANES I quote the following...
"The tanks are expected to be delivered to Poland by 2026 and will be deployed in eastern Poland to deter Russia."

"Polish Armaments Agency spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Krzysztof Płatek told Janes on 5 April that these 28 MBTs would be M1A2 SEPv2s and would not comprise the first batch of the contract. The tanks will be used by US Army personnel to train Polish crews while the first generation of Polish instructors is trained in the United States."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...1a2-sepv3-mbts

Originally the plan was to train them on advanced M1A1 tanks which Poland would keep.

And it looks that's back on again because you must remember a couple of months back Poland signed a contract for the K2 and K9 from S. Korea. So stand by to go Huh!!
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/01...s-procurement/
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/08...-abrams-tanks/

This M1A1 modification falls about at the... "The modification is often referred to as M1A1 AIM v.2." Minus again DU ARMOR.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

T-90M 'Proryv' captured intact in last counteroffensive on eastern front near Charkiv only 20 is for now in Russian army (now 19)

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/elite...hoto-4266.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illu...77d8bb129b.jpg

And here about other captured tanks T-72B3 more common last modernisation of T-72

https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/w...ften-3727.html

In this place interesting article about usage of T-64BM as improvised Self propelled gun with range 10km. Look's like now according to this article if you have drone which observe your target (even cheap civilian) and application on mobile phone which calculate your barrel position you can use any tank for such job so tanks became SP guns for indirect fire even if range is not so great but that wasn't possible earlier with so easy to acquire necessary additional equipment. Here about Ukrainian usage of T-64BM in that makeshift role

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-3718.html

T-62 obsolete tanks are re also in usage and recently captured
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ophy-4231.html

And here list of all captured equipment by Ukrainians in last counteroffensive

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...pany-4217.html

Re: MBT's
 

Don if you missed it see Post 1410 on previous page as the page "flipped" maybe before you saw it.

To the T-90M Russia is actually down to 16 or 17 at least 2-3 destroyed with another believed to have been captured but was damaged in the initial ops in the North drive to the capital. Timeframe I believe was March/April for the above. It's posted in maybe this and or the "Ukraine OOB NEW and OLD TOYS" thread.

However, Russia has NOT lost faith in this tank.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...sian_army.html

Also, Russia celebrates an 80th production year anniversary.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_t-80bvm.html

Germany demonstrates the LEOPARD 2A7+ in the Czech Republic during NATO Days show. The Czech Republic has expressed interest in buying them within the next few years.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rophy_aps.html

Related story...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...p_by_2024.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I'm posting an updated article concerning the capture yesterday of that T-90M. It appears it threw a track on the left side.

Also, the crew appeared to make no attempt to destroy it or its more sensitive components.

Of particular interest is the fact it has the latest gunner's sight which is made completely of Russian components.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...c6a60d915aa2cd
https://crib-blog.blogspot.com/2021/...ized-t-90.html

There's more in the article including another prototype tank I don't recall hearing about the T-80UM2. Conjecture is that's the Prototype or even the BLACK EAGLE which was capable of mounting a 125mm/135mm/140mm and 152mm main gun.

The BLACK EAGLE was my first post in this thread. It would be nice to know it saw combat and met a fitting end if that's the case though I think we might never know the truth of that.


What's also important about these two tanks (T-80UM2 and T-90M.) is the technological "linkage" over time from about 2000 to 2020 or present. We can learn a lot about their developmental and R&D processes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...c6a60d915aa2cd
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t12_black_eagle.htm

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in but felt it important enough as it will affect the game and have an impact for any scenario folks where the use of USMC is concerned.

The first unit (3rd Marine Littoral Regiment) had already been testing the new concept. The 3rd MLR was activated earlier this year using the new squad in the regiment’s littoral combat team and the following will show what it looks like and finally it'll allow us to transport this NEW configuration much more easily.

This is part of what the 2030 Plan wanted to accomplish.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...b7d7f2cf0d5715
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...cs%20battalion.
https://www.mcicom.marines.mil/News/...ics-battalion/
https://www.pacom.mil/Media/News/New...ics-battalion/

I always try to use the best resources available when they're available. :p :D ;)

So, some tank news concerning heavy armor for the Ukraine coming from the West. The last one caught me a little "off guard" but not too much.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...iscussion.html
It was also mentioned a modernization of the M-60A3 could be considered, I hope we could do better. If it should go that way, it should be an updated combination of the 120S or better the M-60A3 SLEP.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/120s.htm
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-killing-16142
https://community.battlefront.com/to...rs-m60a3-slep/
https://tankandafvnews.com/tag/m60-slep/

If I remember correctly there was mention in the above concerning the F-16 (Specifically the F-16V.) this isn't the first mention by the USAF putting the Ukraine and the F-16 in the same sentence.

I first read about this around mid-March concerning the competency of their pilots to be able to fly those jets. I would see this again ~May and July/Aug all from O6's and one O7 (?).

I believe the training has already started. We'll see.

I didn't look into this much until a few minutes ago and it looks "like a thing" now.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...an-pilots.html
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-air-f...vryHtgilJFNS3Z
(This one made the national news concerning the A-10.)
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/20...-fighter-jets/
https://www.airforcemag.com/romania-...-to-fly-f-16s/

I just remembered I had also posted the following before a couple of years back, this is another M-60 option...
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/moder...rade-solution/

As ALWAYS, I'll be tracking these developments.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Probably did you heard but shortly before war in February 2022 Ukraine was involved in project of modernisation of T-64BV to T-64BV Obr.2022

Two variant were used on trials
T-64BV Obr.2022 https://thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com...-tank-has.html

T-64BVK commander variant https://thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com...&by-date=false

even if whole project of modernisation was stooped after invasion is very likely that both prototypes were used on front-line.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...U2tA=w640-h426

Re: MBT's
 

A WORD BEFORE I GO ANY FURTHER. The following information is from Oryx Intelligence Consulting.

They are on the ground and using other verifiable photographic and video data to come up with their numbers. It should be pointed out here that they are more on the conservative side than from MOD and a handful of "thinktanks" that are also tracking these numbers closely.

Equipment is listed by type i.e., Tanks, APC, IFV etc. etc.

You must read the para. of ref. 2.

The link for me by way of example between ref. 1 and Ref.2 is the following...
"One Ukrainian battalion, the Carpathian Sich, seized 10 modern T-80 tanks and five 2S5 Giatsint 152-mm self-propelled howitzers after it entered the town of Izyum last month, said its deputy chief of staff, Ruslan Andriyko."

Now look at ref. 2; scroll down to the T-80BVM a total of 46 tanks that fall into in all categories of the equipment's status starting with destroyed equipment first and work through to damaged captured/captured.

I get 21 captured T-80BVM EXCLUDING I believe were 3 damaged/ captured ones and 1 damaged/abandoned the rest were again, destroyed.

By my count that makes 7 "light" platoons OR 5 "normal" platoons based on the current Ukrainian OOB.

You'll see much higher numbers for the captured T-72B3 and our T-72B3/4 (Listed as T-72B3 Obr. 2016 in the ref..)

Many sites are using their data in comparison to other known sources what's important here if you read para 1 ref. 2, is that they believe the numbers are higher but cannot prove it.

I'm more then reasonably sure this is pretty good data.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...d194f3ff6b96fd
(Original article from the Wall Street Journal. See para.11.)
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...equipment.html
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I have not found any info that any Leo 1A5's ( or 2A4's ) have arrived in Ukraine. Have you?

Thinking none of this is going to happen

Re: MBT's
 

Based on my last post in the "GREEN & WHITE PAPERS" thread, my thinking was Germany had to take the lead on the MBT issue.

I thought I had made a comment to reverse that in my Post 1414 here but, I guess I thought it and just didn't "put it down on paper" in that post.

The German BUNDESTAG is putting pressure on the Chanceller to provide the LEO 2A4 or better.

But the read I get is Germany wants us to move first on the tank issue.

But nobody wants to be the leader at this point.

Post 1414 provided for many options from the USA to include very modernized M-60A3 conversions that would be suitable for combat in the Ukraine and provide an easy introduction to western tanks with minimal loss of technology data if captured.
The following provides for very good context on this issue.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ks-for-ukraine

So having provided better context for our faithful readers, to your question now partially answered, I would say take out the LEO 1A5 TO WHERE THE PLAYERS CAN'T USE IT but keep it in there as we'll have an answer in the coming year.

And we'll just have to take a "wait and see" position depending how the war is going but estimates are indicating the Ukrainians have more than recouped their tanks losses with the MORE modern Russian tanks they've captured.

I would also go as far to say the Ukrainians are using much a much better armored doctrine than the Russians. This is borne out of western doctrine and has been clearly demonstrated on the battlefield of late. Not quite "PATTONIST" but certainly as aggressive as he was.

For what's it's worth. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

<clip>
I've been watching this "Littoral" development with interest.

Apparently it envisions reinforced company sized formations augmented with anti-air and anti-ship missiles and the ability to refuel/rearm F-35Bs being placed on the numerous tiny islands near China to inhibit their ability to hinder opposition naval efforts.

Personally I'm having visions of Wake in December 1941.

These developments are for situations totally outside the scope of WinSPMBT. Except maybe a single scenario of a USMC Littoral company defending it's rock against the Chinese.

Re: MBT's
 

I'm simply going to say-WELCOME BACK STRANGER!! :p

May the "debate games" begin again!?! :D

Just glad my "Marine Buddy" is back.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Ah......yeah. This is like seeing a ghost.:eek: We thought we'd lost you. Sent PM emails no response..welcome back!

:party:

Don

Re: MBT's
 

Sent you a PM Don.

Without getting into details I've spent the last four months dealing with medical issues and at an "Assisted Care" facility thus no access to the internet.

Re: MBT's
 

The next refs. deal with the ABRAMS and couple of "outliners"; I'll provide a couple of "quick takes" as I've got an Anniversary trip to go on in the morning for a few days. 36 years ABSOULUTLING WONDERFUL. :D

First modernized armored USA Brigade is fully equipped.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rnization.html

Quick takes:
"The modernization process that began with divesting the older vehicle platforms in the spring of 2021 as part of the Army’s new Regionally Aligned Readiness and Modernization Model, or ReARMM."

Last Company just finished final quals at Ft. Stewart Ga. (Just up the road from me ~1.5 hrs.)

Brigade fully equipped with M1A2C/M2A4 BRADLEY/Modernizations completed/AMPV w/Final Operational & Evaluation completed.

Further equipped with JLTV, M109A7 PALADAN and Joint Assault Bridge.

Next stop NTC Fort Irwin, California, in late winter next year. Proof of concept and more.

Do not base fielding dates off the above. NTC will be the next and possibly final step towards that goal-maybe.

The next two concerns the M1A2D and ABRAMSX THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE TANK. these are here to chart the future path we're taking.

Simply put "The Rumors of My Death Have Been Greatly Exaggerated" in other words heavy armor isn't going away anytime soon.

From the article...
"To summarize, the Abrams M1A2 SEPv4 includes:
- An improved Gunner’s Primary Sight (GPS) with 3rd Generation Forward Looking Infrared (3GEN FLIR), an Improved Laser Range Finder (LRF), and Color Camera
- An improved Commander’s primary sight with 3GEN FLIR, an improved LRF, laser pointer, and color camera
- Improved lethality by providing the ability for the fire control system to digitally communicate with the new Advanced Multi-Purpose (AMP) Round
- Improved firing accuracy through the installation of a Meteorological Sensor
- Improved onboard diagnostics"

Testing has started at the Aberdeen Proving ground.

From our point of view that means TI/GSR 65-70 game limited AT A MINIUM.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ng_ground.html

GDLS has a new demonstrator the ABRAMSX. This will be of a new design with very new...Armor, 120mm w/coax, ammo MRM round, ROW 30mm w/MG, FCS etc. etc. TI/GSR 70-75+ game limited AT A MINIUM.

LOOKS GOOD!
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...onstrator.html

As they noted the following hasn't been confirmed. But makes sense therefore this is a real possibility once read through.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...sian_army.html

The German/French (Maybe UK.) EMBT it's worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk8u47JbYho

You have to admit the Europeans make tanks like they make their sports cars. :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well the last Abrams is gone from the USMC inventory (including those in depots and pre-loaded cargo ships) so starting around mid 2021 if you want tanks use the "Allies" button when purchasing formations and buy Army!

Since they first mounted TOW ATGMs on AH-1s the USMC has seen the tank primarily as an infantry support asset and ATGM armed helos/ground troops as the primary anti-armor asset. With the climbing mass of the modernized Abrams it's been a problem getting them to the beach. The LCAC has a cargo capacity of 60 tons (75 overloaded), and an LST is not a viable assault landing transport.

A plausible answer suitable to the Force Design 2030 concept would be the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) Light Tank Program, two competing tank contenders armed with a 105mm cannon. BAE System’s® M8 Armored Gun System and General Dynamics Land Systems’ “Griffin” weigh in at around 30-35-tons with add-on armor. Two basic 30-ton 105mm MPFs can ride on a LCAC and two MPFs with add-on armor (35-tons) might be able to ride on an SSC. With Active Protection Systems and Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) additions installed, the MPF, in theory, should have adequate protection levels up to the U.S. Army’s M2A3 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle, with an all-around armor rating against 30mm Armor-Piercing rounds, and active protection against Anti-tank missiles and rockets that the M1A2 SEPv3 with Trophy APS has. A MPF’s 105mm tank cannon might not be powerful enough to penetrate the latest frontal armor of MBTs, but it should be capable of providing direct fire support against bunkers, pillboxes, fortifications, and light to medium armored vehicles in support of advancing Marines.

We'll just have to see what happens in the future.

Re: MBT's
 

The following is to build upon Post 1416 in this thread.

I have to assume there are some folks "are concerned" possibly about the numbers of Russian armor captured and repurposed by the Ukraine.

I have never purposely have single sourced any equipment or news out here even if the "backup" is WiKi something which has occurred less than a handful of times and always in consultation with Don when it arises.
So here's some corroboration to the ORYX data which was current the day I posted it.

[b]From July 17, 2022 Data current to June 26, 2022
https://armyrecognition.com/ukraine_...nian_army.html

From Oct. 8, 2022
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russian...-putin-1750115

From same date Note UK MOD Tweet.
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-719172

From Oct. 9, 2022
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukra...ks-fleet-size/

This should be enough.

Don I've been looking at this for sometime now.

My concerns were are they getting enough armor to put them into the fight? That has now been fully answered.

Who else is looking at the ORYX Data are are coming up with at least about the same total numbers as ORYX is showing and remember they update that data daily as the evidence allows. The above refs show some "heavy lifters" are processing the data as well by loking at ORYX data and generating their own data.

Remember I mentioned in Post 1416 that you needed to read Para 1, that's because ORYX has used photo or video shots to verify the condition of all the equipment listed on that data sheet.

For Don again I WILL HAVE A COMPLETE LIST OF RUSSIAN CAPTURED/REPURPOSED ARMOR TO YOU WITHIN 2 WEEKS. You know where that'll be posted. I have no intention at his point after a "cursory" check of the SOVIET Era equipment listed to have any of them listed because 1. I haven't seen anything that really stands out to me and; 2. The Ukraine certainly has enough Soviet Era equipment already.

Back to the Vacation the weather is absolutely fantastic. Nothing better than sleeping when the overnight temps are in the 30's!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I've been watching this for awhile now and today the contract was signed between Rheinmetall and the Czech (Republic) government. The deal as I recall was for 14 LEOPARD 2A4 tanks and 1 BUFFEL ARV.

This is part of the German Program taken from the below ref...
"The “Ringtausch” is a procedure developed by the German government in cooperation with Germany’s neighbours and NATO allies to support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression. Specifically, NATO member states are providing Ukraine with Soviet-era heavy equipment in exchange for readily available Western military systems."

This is "payback" for T-72's the Czech government sent the Ukraine.

The above package will include training, maintenance, parts and ammo.

Some these (Maybe all.) tanks will come from former foreign country users. They will be updated.

FOR NOW, and unless something is released as to the extent of those upgrades; my thinking is it'll at least be to the latest standard the BUNDESWEHR fielded before they were retired.

The first unit (A tank.) is expected sometime in Dec. 2022.

The order will be fully be completed by LATE 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...uffel_arv.html

Wonderful things always happen on our Anniversary!?! :p :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I wonder when NATO or the EU will just adopt the Leopard as the standard tank for all countries in the EU...everyone but France and England, and Italy seems to have them now.

Re: MBT's
 

Czech newest modernisation T-72 Avenger is also send to Ukraine now thanks to peoples fundraising. This tank is a modernisation of T-72M1 of Czech production and have nickname Tomáš

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...hoto-4618.html

And here article from Politico about perspectives in near future of acquiring modern western tanks for Ukraine. In article is also mentioned about production and maintenance.

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...stry-4654.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...BhW1TfBMNpEToA

Re: MBT's
 

And now M-55S from Slovenia are also sent on eastern front

This tank is probably the best so far modernisation of classical T-55

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...aine-4691.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/slovenia-s...5s-to-ukraine/

before they send their ex yougoslavian M-80 APC
https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/vijskovi-u...vid-sloveniyi/

Re: MBT's
 

One opinion about that tank.........

The Actual Worst Tank? M-55S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO8q-sWiHSE

One comment..........."The m55-s was retired before it entered service... it actually was just in the reserve its entire life ... i drove one and to be fair in the 90s it seemed like a good idea since Slovenia didnt really have any other weapons to counter another Yugo attack"


We might find out how they work out in combat

Now all Ukraine needs for them is a supply of 105 rifled ammo though there is probably LOTS tucked away in warehouses

This'll do the trickhttps://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1667159546

Re: MBT's
 

Since Dons post prior to this I believe the T-55S discussion has shifted somewhat.

I would refer you to the SPA and SPAA Thread Posts 240 -242 for further.

Now for something you'll be hearing about more from me later. I knew Russia was digging deep into their stockpiles of early "new" post WWII tanks. However, over the next three years Russia intends to modernize 800 T-62M & T-62MV tanks. That number doesn't include the 40 confirmed combination that has already been fighting in the Ukraine. You would do well to read the following it covers this issue but goes much deeper to grasp the situation with Russian armor.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-losses-report

I don't remember posting the following but, the situation on the ground since this was published back in April this year bears out much of what is discussed in the following and also borne out in the above ref as well. I feel the same about this article as the above one.
https://static.rusi.org/special-repo...tion-z-web.pdf

The following has been UPDATED concerning the Czech Republic sending the Ukraine both the T-72M4 and BVP-2 IFV combat vehicles. It's not happening! (At least not now.) .

They were sent to Poland as part of a joint exercise.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...vp-2_ifvs.html

Well one of my tanks that I predicted several++ years ago would be in the game, will be.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...r_by_2025.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=663b1cc26677

Re: MBT's
 

Seeing that Ukraine is currently at war & getting lots of Nato equipment it's gonna be interesting to see how much love the Ukraine ob gets next patch update.....😁!

Re: MBT's
 

Ukraine now has captured T-62Ms now repainted in Ukrainian digital camouflage and in service with the Ukrainian Army along the border with Belarus...

https://twitter.com/uasupport999/sta...31210099560448

Re: MBT's
 

This was inevitable - now added

Re: MBT's
 

Keep in mind there's only so many weapons slots available for each nation. And getting a dozen or so of a weapon it's hardly worthwhile to create a weapon and unit.

Use the "Captured" button when creating a battle and get anything from any OOB with the nation being set to your own.

Re: MBT's
 

Just d'like to mention about other captured T-90
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-ukrain...m-proryv-tank/

https://mil.in.ua/wp-content/uploads...38522730-1.jpg

T-72 rebuild\refurbished and modernised by Czech company for Ukraine
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...ideo-5046.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/excalibur-...s-for-ukraine/

Re: MBT's
 

There'll be more on this later, however, when I entered what is in the game as the mistaken T-72B3 in 2014 from my printout of my submission which was my fault and missed it when I posted my word doc to the FASTBOAT Patch Thread.

Some of you might remember me referring to our "Hybrid Tank" in several posts as the T-72B3/4.

I refer to UNIT 697 T-72B3. The name needs to change for that unit to T-72B3M by refs (Also known in official circles as T-72 Object 2016 or from some as the T-73B4.) that's on me.
https://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b4.htm
https://armyrecognition.com/russia_r..._12003163.html

However, we CANNOT ignore the T-72B3 as that tank is currently the most numerous operated MBT in Russian service.
https://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b3.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html

So, in working on my Russian captured tank project as posted in Posts 1416 & 1425 in this thread, I came across TWO modern tanks I couldn't verify as being operational in the Russian Army.

I have built a T-72B3 from one of those tanks and Don should get a free slot back.

That was a statement that conveniently leads me to the following video of a Ukrainian T-64BV taking out a Russian T-72B3 at about 250m-300m range by a drone with a "double tap".

That's my assessment after iso stop and blow-up of the video. Could be wrong but feeling fairly confident. The first thing I saw was the difference in the side skirts between the T-72B3 and T-72B3M.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...30183694860288
Look lower left to about 2/3 center/slightly right.
EDIT: It's 0200 do you know where your kids are at? :p
Just came across this...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...72b3_tank.html

I hope we're holding off on those Czech tanks that the U.S. and Netherlands are paying for at a cost of ~350-400 million dollars. That should buy something more advanced than the T-72 Viper I believe was discussed based on how many are to be modernized.

Another way of putting it we have no Xxxxxxx idea at this time of what's being done to this tank in the "Big Picture" sense.

Suhiir just got your PM-and Thanks!! We're still dealing with somethings but are DETERMINED to have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

And that goes for you and everyone else out here however you observe the Holiday Season!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Mystery of the Czech T-72B (That's the right tank.) upgrade as paid for by the U.S. and Netherlands might be getting closer to being solved with the following refs.

Well, those same refs are "leading" to that conclusion but my problem is they're not directly saying so.

Is it possible these are them? I would at this time say they might be the leading candidate based on the numbers and the and reserves they (Morocco) still in storage (T-72B). Also, they're sending 5 of these tanks to the Ukraine.

U.S/Netherlands pay Morocco or EXCALIBUR but neither say that.

So again, this might be the leading candidate I feel we'll know more by next week or sooner. In the meantime...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ed_forces.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html
(Yes, it does say Morrocco is DONATING these tanks.) ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Both the first link and the link to the T-72B in that first link claim..........

That adds up to 45 and for the most part, the 6 missiles added add to 39 conventional rounds gives the correct count (6 missiles + 39 = 45 )

The original T-72 by various sources show it carrying 22 in the autoloader and 17 in the Hull which =39 and that is...... for the most part, what we have in the game....BUT

A quick random check does show we have maintained that count in most things but there are a few that are wrong and Ukraine unit 77 and 621 are examples ( now corrected ) but that means checking all T-72 ammo loads is now on my to-do list....wonderful

Re: MBT's
 

Could things have been modified by the crews and reported after the fact which is why the numbers are different?

Re: MBT's
 

It's now official the M-55S tanks are now operational.

Don, correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe we discussed numbers for the build on this tank already-I think.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...nian_army.html

EDIT: FOUND IT! IN THE SPA and SPAA Development Thread Posts 240 - 242. You built the ICON, so I'll assume you pretty much went with my numbers and the tanks ready. I can't believe that was in OCT., WHERE'S THE TIME GOING!?!



Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Just info that Poland will buy also older Abrams M1A1 SA ex from US Marine Corps

https://www.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C15...ks-poland.html

https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/08...-abrams-tanks/

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...rket-5039.html

I also know that the issue of PT-91 Twardy is not new since June but I found nice photo

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...eive-3628.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/cont...9088f0e070.jpg

Re: MBT's
 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...on-2022-12-06/


Reuters says "U.S. approves potential sale $3.75 billion of M1A1 Abrams tanks to Poland"

Re: MBT's
 

From Facebook Tanks being Tanks:

First Leopard 2A4CZ for Czech Army

Yesterday on Wednesday 21st of December Czech Army recieved first Leopard 2A4 tank.

This type will replace old T-72M/M1 tanks. Later Leopard 2A7 will replace T-72M4CZ.

Czech Leopard 2A4CZ is adjusted Panzer 87 from Switzerland. This adjustments were only in secondary armament, communications, night and thermal sights and several external equipments.

Leopard 2A4CZ will be mostly for training. T-72M4CZ will be still in active service

Re: MBT's
 

Bit odd that Poland is going to have this mix-and-match tank force. Not all the parts work on the other tanks, so is this part of a grand plan, or is it more of something else?

Re: MBT's
 

It almost seems like they are trying to ensure they have multiple supply options but it's a nightmare for parts supply. Right now it's a mix of Russian, German, American and Korean.

Re: MBT's
 

So they train on the 2A4's for the transition to the 2A7's
From the Game POV there is no need for the 2A4's. The question is when are the 2A7's going to start showing up

Re: MBT's
 

This is my "Ba-Humbug" concerning the Czech Republic. I would respectfully disagree about the status of the LEOPARD 2A4.

Those tanks were given to them as they donated 40 T-72M1 tanks to the Ukraine. The U.S. and Netherlands effectively bought (90 UNITS) the rest of both the leftover active and stored T-72M1 for as yet an unknown modernization program.

For all intents and purposes, the T-72M1 is no longer a viable unit of the Czech Republic.

The LEOPARD 2A4 is to fill the armor gap, because the Czech Republic hasn't completed the modernization of all the T-72 tanks to be upgraded to the T-72M4CZ/30 UNITS currently and some say this is all they'll have period.

Those LEOPARD 2A4 tanks will eventually be modernized by the Czech Republic (Part of the current negotiations.) to the LEOPARD 2A7/or 2A7+ (Urban Pkg. think TUSK here.).

The LEOPARD 2A7/7+ tanks WILL NOT get there anytime soon.
Part of the reason is...

1. Germany and the Czech Republic are still negotiating the deal for 50 of those tanks as of this writing.

2. Germany just in the last couple of weeks passed one of its biggest defense budgets in years. To add more weapons systems tanks etc. (Only has ~250-280 operational tanks of all types to include their LEOPARD 2A5 tanks (20-25).

That pushes out those Czech Republic tanks at least 1.5 - 2 years minimum.

I would recommend either of the following German LEOPARD 2A4 units to be the STANDARD for countries getting that tank, UNIT 268 or UNIT 269, with START JAN 2023.
https://www.czdefence.com/article/th...-2-tanks-users
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/12...leopard-tanks/
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=264
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=280
Which one? We won't know until the contracts are signed as there are some slight differences between the above two.

I'm off to bed long day yesterday playing in the strong winds and "balmy" very cold temps (Though I enjoyed watching some of my coworkers wishing they were elsewhere. :D) and Santa has
been flying around waiting for me to get this done-or else it'll be a "BAG OF COAL" for sure.

So have a good whatever, wherever and Merry Christmas however you celebrate it!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I found the following from FORBES an interesting read concerning the start of the war in Ukraine.

Maybe you will also find it the same...:dk:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...fd914f146d7d15

Regards,
Pat
:capt: