Re: OT: Atrocities
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. We're all familiar with the concept of a TROLL here, aren't we? Doesn't the name strike you as a bit suspicious? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, I am quite familiar with the concept of trolling. I've read /. before you know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But, if you take a look at his member profile, he joined April 8th. So he's been lurking around for at least three weeks, and decided to post first on this topic. I would think that a troll would begin posting inflammatory stuff as soon as registration went through, not three weeks later.

I give the benefit of the doubt. Especially when I know a lot of otherwise very decent people who hold the same opinions about what should be done with the Iraqis, and just what corner of Hell they should burn in. All of it is nonsense to those of us who realize that Iraqis are people just like us, but oversimplification, revenge, jingoism, etc. get in the way sometimes for others.

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

Seeing this turned my stomach as well and made me thing of how, once again, the actions of a handful of fools can bring about such widespread ramifications. If they only knew.

Two thoughts on your Posts, gentlemen.

1. News agencies are reporting that the SSgt who ran the camp somewhat claimed something to the effect that he wasn't trained on the geneva convention. Hogwash. I remember during my service that was reinforced ad nauseum, from basic training to promotion tests. He should have known better.

2. I has been extermely common for armies (US and others) to informally characterize their foes as something a bit less than human... (i.e., "krauts" "japs" "gooks") [no offense to anyone intended]. It makes the enemy easier to deal with (kill). And now it's common to lump arabs into that Category. This subltle dehumanization helps opens the door for abuses such as this.

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

Well, I just read that the American's aren't the only ones now charged with prisoner abuse. Some rogue members of the British Army absolutely went nutso on some prisoners in Basra. Beaten within inches of their life, then thrown from a moving truck, Last known fate unknown. When found out, the officer in charge told them to get rid of the evidence! Not to stop but to make sure they aren't found out.
at www.themirror.co.uk
I'd like to think that I'd be a fair and just person, but dealing with that level of danger and frustration day in and day out I could probably just as easily go medieval on some poor soul.
Why wasn't Al Jazzera reporting on items like this when it was going on ALL THE TIME

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

why register to just say that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

careful trolls about

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

After seeing the footage and such, I was shocked and appauled at what they were doing. Who in their right mind would for an instant believe that that kind of miss conduct would be acceptable?

They desearve to be court marsheled and sent to Lebonsworth for a good long while for that. Terrorist or not, POW or not, NO ONE has the right to do what they did to another human being. Totaly inapproprate.

EDIT:

I must also say that what the Iraqis are doing to the people they kidnap is most distrubing, far more so than what has happened in the prisons. I feel that the only thing people like that understand is force. Unfortunetly far to many inocent victims must pay the price for ending the violence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ May 03, 2004, 22:27: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry for this completely OT twist to this OT post, but I found this amusing. Not that the on-topic OT is amusing in the least, but I'll take the humor wherever I find it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Back on topic (well, kinda):

Discipline--there are three kinds. Self-discipline, preventative external discipline, and reactive external discipline. The more of the first you have, the less of the second and third you'll need. Originally, the first type held society together. Now, most Americans (and many non-Americans, it seems) have little to no self-discipline. For a time, the second type held society together; then those accustomed to allowing themselves to do what they wish rationalized away preventative discipline (i.e., structure, standards, expected norms). Now, even reactive discipline (i.e., punishment) has been greatly weakened. Prison time is a thing of the past if you have a glib enough lawyer; you need psychiatric evaluation and counselling and "reform," not punishment, because you can't really be held responsible.

If those guilty of prisoner abuse in Iraq had self-discipline, they would not have done this. If their commanders had enough preventative discipline, these men would not have dared to do this. As it is, we now have to see the reactive discipline.

Thus endeth the sermonette for the evening. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

Do you get the feeling that the Military Intelligence personnel think their accountable to no one. I like that excuse that they weren't trained in Geneva Convention protocols. Neither was I and I know what's right and wrong. Hope this isn't the tip of the iceberg.

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

I'm just curious to why they would be taping these things in the first place? In the entire history of video cameras - secret tapes with things you wouldn't want other people to see - always get found... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

It's to easy to hate.

Re: OT: Atrocities
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is in fact the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118958,00.html

Also, I was listening to the 'Diane Rheim Show' on NPR this morning and they had an investigative reporter who is following this as a guest. He said that people he has talked to are indicating a huge mass of material yet to come out. And not only have they got pictures, they've got video tapes of people being abused.