Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've wanted this for a while. In fact, I wanted it in AOW / AOW2 / AOW2SM but it never got put in... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

-Cherry

P.S.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Naw, realism is most important, not gameplay! =) But you forget, I think, that naked farmes can burn quite a lot of calories...

[ October 29, 2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've wanted this for a while. In fact, I wanted it in AOW / AOW2 / AOW2SM but it never got put in... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

-Cherry

P.S.

Quote:

This should be first and foremost an issue of game balance and whats the best game mechanic though, not one of what's more realistic, how much food does a guy with plate mail need compared to a naked farmer...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Naw, realism is most important, not gameplay! =) But you forget, I think, that naked farmes can burn quite a lot of calories... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Bah you were one of the anti-surrender people weren't you? Come on admit it! I know you were http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You probably joined that rediculose anti teleporter society too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Death to Realism!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

Non-uniform training time might well have a big impact, and seems reasonable -- untrained, generally lightly-equipped irregulars could be recruited and mobilized much faster than those who need to be trained to fight in armor and in close formation, and it'll take even longer if horsemanship or archery plays a part. Even if you have plentiful material resources, training will still take time unless your society's so militarized that your recruiting pool is already trained as a part of their upbringing.
And yeah, demobilizing makes sense. They may be irregular conscripts rather than professional soldiers, and once the threat's over they'd rather go home. Conversely, if there's a nearby threat loyal citizens might even volunteer to protect their homes (e.g. higher chance of militia event).
Combining the above with high maintenance cost for maintaining a standing army would increase the incentive to keep a smaller army followed by rapid raising of militia.

Edited: Incoherent and dropping words today.

[ October 29, 2003, 21:54: Message edited by: Taqwus ]

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">These sound like good ideas; I'd widen the area where only light troops were allowed (frontmost area as well as the flanks). But, what's going to be missing from the role of light troops is the disorganizing factor of light troop missile fire - with no formations to maintain, this will be hard to take into account...

But, the real problem is the supplies. The "supplies" abstraction in Dom is only about food, but I think it should reflect more than that; it should be near impossible to raise and maintain a standing army of only heavy troops. These heavy troops should be a backbone that your army is build around - better morale and durability, but too expensive to have them make up more than a quarter of your army. I like the idea of some number of "light" troops in each Province not requiring supplies.

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I entirely disagree. Light Troops were tactically very usefull, for example in rough terrain, against elephants, or for the mobility and speed. Light Cavalry in particular were always usefull unless the terrain was just too rough for horses.

Costs were obviously an issue as well, but I don't think they were the defining issue. It certainly wasn't true that light troops were only used because one couldn't instead field more heavy troops.

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

I don't mean to imply that cost was the only advantage, as there were many examples of light, mobile units slaughtering sluggish armored ones (the Crusades come to mind). But I think it was a huge factor, and that if the cost had been equal (like in Doms II), heavy units would have made up the bulk of historic armies, rather than light units.

There's also a possibility of assigning heavy units penalties in certain terrain types (swamp, mountain, forest).

[ October 29, 2003, 22:38: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hypaspists were the elite heavy infantry in Alexander the Great's army. They were perhaps lighter armored and more flexible than the Hoplites, but they definitely were not light infantry.

In Dom 2 this is also the case -- they make very good heavy infantry. Their stats now seem clearly superior to hoplites.

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">IMHO Morale loss from damage due to missile fire is a reasonable aproximation of disorder from missile fire.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I disagree. In particular Roman and Greek armies were composed mostly of well armed Heavy Infantry. Focusing solely on the cost equation is IMHO not the answer, as it will invariably lead to the most cost efficient unit being best.

Also, you wouldn't mind the supply cost of light troops if they were actually effective in battle.

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

"Also, you wouldn't mind the supply cost of light troops if they were actually effective in battle. "

True, that is why I suggest lowering their supply (and proably upkeep) to make them more viable than they are. All the historical evidence is fine and dandy, but it has jack all to do with Dominions and the underlying game mechanics.

What it boils down to (aside from the AIs inability to select the most effective troops) is that there is virtually no use for LI in the game. That's probably like 15-20% of the units in the game that simply will never be built becasue there is always a better alternative. Now of course there can be instances where you need a quick dose of LI, but for the most part their cost/benefit is out of whack with the higher cost units. This situation only gets worse the longer the game progresses as nations gain better economies and begin to fill their key provinces with important armies. There simply is not room for the LI since they have no combat advantage over HI once you saturate your provinces with units (i.e. the supply limit is hit).

So lower the supply usage for LI, lower their upkeep, and bang, now they can be competative again. People will still gravitate toward the better units, but there will be a bigger place for LI in the game.

An alternative is to make HI take up more command points from commanders as well, or make LI count as 1/2 or something. That doesn't get around supply and upkeep issues, but it does make swarming more viable, especially with low command rated commanders.

Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't see that being so clear cut. For an easy example, take the Mongols. Probably the best pre-gunpowder army, and mostly comprised of Light Cavalry.

Even the Romans, quite fond of heavy infantry, still kept some lighter troops around for tactical flexibility -- even though they could have fielded armies of purely of heavy infantry.

What it really came down to is that a certain amount of light troops will increased the effectiveness of heavy troops.