.com.unity Forums - how modable ?

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- - how modable ? (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=16656)

Re: how modable ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
It would be nice to be able to add new summonable units, which inherently requires adding a new spell to summon them (for example, the Japanese theme that was being discussed on another thread could get to summon kitsune, yuki no onna, tengu, etc.). Some national themes rely on national summons (especially Ashen Empire, Soul Gates, Carrion Woods and Desert Tombs).

Do you have any plans to add spell editing in later releases?

Also, you didn't specifically mention: can you add a new special theme to a nation, without having to modify or replace an existing special theme of that nation?

I have some ideas for a "Black Widows" theme for Machaka where the queens have taken over the government and priesthood and no king reigns for more than a year before he is sacrificed to make way for his replacement. (Obviously they don't get the King Triumphant as a national hero!) The God Forest has been corrupted, and the Shadow Queens raise undead Hunter Spiders to fight for their cause (this would require either a national summon or an "enter to summon" site, since undead Hunter Spiders are too powerful to be available as a special reanimate like lictors and tomb wyrms - I'm thinking they should still be sacred; almost every nation and theme has some sacred non-commander, and Black Widows will lose the living Black Hunter). Some queens are normal and some unholy priests (replacing all the usual priesthood), and the Black Sorcerer is replaced with a Black Sorceress with a heavier emphasis on death magic.

I haven't decided yet if there should be any change to the basic military, witchdoctors or sorcerers. They may need a scout since they lose the Ear along with all the other standard Machakan priests - but on the other hand, they would still have Bane Spiders. Forcing them to rely on Bane Spiders or indy scouts for stealth could be an interesting counterbalance to the new stuff they get.

Can I do all that without having to make it the only theme for Machaka in my mod? Can I do it at all given that I want to add a unit that isn't recruited normally? Adding new themes requires adding new capitol sites that enable the new theme's capitol-only units and have the appropriate gem income for the new theme. Can the existing mod tools do this?

Also, if people do design their own themes, is there a chance they could be incorporated as official themes in a future Version of Dom II?

Currently you replace the default units of the default theme of a nation with units of your creation or altered units from the game. You can also disable other themes. Name, flag, scoregraph color, heat preference can be altered. Home sites can be removed and added. The sites themselves cannot be altered yet (you will have to use existing ones), but if you change the sprite and statistics of a site specific unit there are no problems with recruiting new units from a site.

We will probably not incorporate themes from players in the game, but mods we like might become recommended and put on our website (when it is more representable).

Re: how modable ?

OK I know I never speak for a majority, and its probably too late for this....
(pardon me if this was covered somewhre else already)

Mods will change how Dom2 plays ALL maps? Change the internal units themselves permanently? So if I made that change to a sprite and a summoning site or nations starting site then thats what I would get in every game I play whether solo or multiplayer? At best, that seems like it would be very confusing. At worst, abuseable.

My personal opinion (for what its worth) is that Id much rather they were external files (especially since then I can play with a generator RandomMapCult RULES!). Better yet have it work completely from expecting the files to be specified in the .map file and found in the maps directory. Maybe in the game-save directory. Or a directory for each added theme off of a directory such as maps.
Such as #newtheme 3 "Arthurian.txt"
which can have all the info on which man theme to replace, file names for images of Arthur and Merlin (replacing old one-eye as a hero), names of knight heroes, adding Excaliber, /etc /etc.

If you needed to add blank placeholders into the game such as another 100 units saying "this space available" to make this work then thats OK with me. I can program around those numbers. But Id rather a mod didnt permanently change game things.

[ December 05, 2003, 15:57: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: how modable ?

Indeed, I'd like to echo Gandalf's thoughts.

I would like to add new themes to races and leave players with all options. I don't want to overwrite what is already there.

I want to add MORE to the game, not replace what is there. If adding requires subtracting, it's a harsh sacrifice that drains the purpose of such efforts.

It's hard to tell exactly what the situation is from the little description we have, so it's possible our worries are unfounded. Still, it's best to get this stuff out in the open, so everyone can be informed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 05, 2003, 16:11: Message edited by: apoger ]

Re: how modable ?

Yup. If mods can rewrite the core game with unreversable changes I am not going to even try a single one, I want my game to stay 'pure' for MP purposes.

If they are just boxes that you can tick on/off when launching a game then it's a different matter.

[ December 05, 2003, 16:28: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Re: how modable ?

They are toggleable. No need to worry.

Re: how modable ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
They are toggleable. No need to worry.

Whew (sigh of relief)
THANK YOU. What about the other points?

Its going in the /dominions2 directory? Or map/game specific? A new directory?

It does need to replace one of the 1010 units? Can we get unit ID on the unit display? Or turned on with a keypress? Should we start developing a list of not-in-the-game units? That will be really hard to do without some sort of in-game ID. Even with it. There are 4 or 5 Versions of the red dragon, I dont know which ones are used where. Many knights that all look the same. Will some blanks be added?
(sorry if Im pestering you in territory you havent entered yet)

Re: how modable ?

Quote:

Originally posted by tkobo:
How do i make a start position for a country ?
okay, i figured this one out.

How do i dismiss global spells ?

Sorry I think thats only going to be with mod tools if at all. You can dismiss national units by doing things like removing the special magic sites they start with, and even more destroying the starting castle. This can be handy for setting an AI at a worse starting position.

Or for building the leader of the independents. I did that using Man. Without his special units he is pretty much just the same units as independents (him or Ulm). I have one random game I play in Dom1 where I kill Mans god, remove his specials, give him ownership of provinces with structures scattered all over the map. Basically I set him up as the King of the Independent Provinces.

Re: how modable ?

Quote:

Originally posted by tkobo:
A king figure who could summon no/low upkeep knights to him would be very cool and fit the "theme" i'd like for my man games.
Course, i havent won a game as man yet ,but its still fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Go to the http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/ site and download the mods files. At least the Hoburg one. The files are all either text, or tga image. Look at those and I think you will see enough there to get a start on making your own King Arthur mod.

For a starting point on making tga for new pieces look at references Ive made elsewhere about screen capture. You can use your print screen button to grab the screen while inside a dominions game (such as the image of a knight) then you can paste it into a paint program to make slight changes for your own pieces.

The only thing I didnt notice in the files was a way to make a new hero or maybe to temporarily overwrite one of Mans

Re: how modable ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
[qb] They are toggleable. No need to worry.

Quote:

It does need to replace one of the 1010 units? Can we get unit ID on the unit display? Or turned on with a keypress?

You can access a list of all mods located in /mods directory by going to preferences menu in game. From there you can activate/deactivate any/all mods from there. Mods are done in text files much like .map files so you use some text editor for making them (there is documentation included) but there is no unit ID so far.

Quote:

Should we start developing a list of not-in-the-game units? That will be really hard to do without some sort of in-game ID. Even with it. There are 4 or 5 Versions of the red dragon, I dont know which ones are used where. Many knights that all look the same. Will some blanks be added?

Each mod can have text description attached to it, so it is best to be informative about these things you mentioned in those descriptions instead of just typing "XXX mod made by YYY". There is map at Sunray's site that has all units included in it by number so you can use that (at the moment) to decide which unit you want to use/change.

[ December 10, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: how modable ?

Further note to modders to be: A human is 32 pixels in height.