.com.unity Forums - Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)

- Dominions 2: The Ascension Wars (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55)

- - Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=17474)

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

OTOH Luck+3 without Order is still a good recipe for catastrophic outcomes. Plagues events that kill 50+% of your capital's pop shouldn't occur with Luck+3. And even then, they should be restricted to dominions of Death.

Death scale hardly needs to be made less desirable. Limited to misfortune would be far better. <hr /></blockquote>That wouldn't make death scale less desirable, since plagues can already happen in a death dominion. And as it is now, I don't find death scale particularly bad.

<hr /></blockquote>If not having death scale would make one immune to plagues, surely it would make people less likely to take death? Death makes supply harder and reduces population. Seems pretty bad to me, though I guess less so in a short game.

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
If not having death scale would make one immune to plagues, surely it would make people less likely to take death?

Well, since it seems I can't grow pop when events are aplenty, I'm not even considering buying a growth scale with turmoil+something/luck+3 (I default to death+1 now). If I pick a positive growth scale I can accept lossing 3%, or even 1/5th (emigration due to turmoil) of the pop in my capital with these turmoil/luck settings, but surely not 50+% due a plague event! That's a problem that needs to be fixed. Plagues make sense with a death scale and I've no problem with it - I got what I paid (or actually didn't pay) for.

Quote:

Death makes supply harder and reduces population. Seems pretty bad to me, though I guess less so in a short game.

It's bad yes, but it gives you lots of design points, and if you buy order+3 with those your pop losses to bad events are extremely rare. Seems quite a bargain to me. I certainly lose way less pop with order+3/death+1/misfortune+3 than with turmoil+1/growth+1/luck+3, and it costs 200 less design points and makes you more rich to boot!

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Getting 1500 gold and level 6 magic item(s) early is pretty great. Yeah, it doesn't happen every time, but luck is luck, it's supposed to be unpredictable. I think that limiting the worst events to negative luck scales would be enough.

Having played through hundreds perhaps thousands of turns, about half of which with T+3 and L+3, I've seen that _once_. It's colorfull, but in terms of balance it's insignificant.

The only really good events that occur on a regular basis are heroes (if you get a mage).

[ January 25, 2004, 19:30: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

The 1500 gp event is no more uncommon than any other rare event, provided you have the requisite scales (luck +3). We played a mp game a while back where one of the players got the event 3 times before turn 40.

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Hehe. Seems all we can conclude from all this is that there's a lot of luck in luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
The 1500 gp event is no more uncommon than any other rare event, provided you have the requisite scales (luck +3). We played a mp game a while back where one of the players got the event 3 times before turn 40.

I've probably just had "bad" luck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

That's always the problem with analyzing such rare but potent events, as a large variance is to be expected... I suspect that that 3 times in one game is an extreme outlier, but without knowing how many rare events exist I can't caclulate anything. On average I think it be fair to say that a player probably will not see this event in any given game, possibly even once in 10 games.

Moreover, even if one is astoundingly lucky enough to get this event 3 times in 40 turns, the resulting gold is _still_ much less than the income difference between Order+3 and Turmoil+3 -- or even the income difference between Order 3 and 0!

[ January 25, 2004, 20:27: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
The 1500 gp event is no more uncommon than any other rare event, provided you have the requisite scales (luck +3).

Do the rare bad events also have requisite scales (luck -x)? (I think they should!)

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
And how about, instead of/in addition to militia randomly joining you, useful commanders randomly joining you? Few people would turn up their nose at a free Sage, let alone an adept of any metal order or most other indy mages.

You do get useful commanders joining sometimes.

e.g. the Lore Master (I think they get 4 random magic picks and about 12 research) - event is something about some seal being broken and the old guy within agreeing to serve you for freeing him. I've also seen a few mages pop up with 2 nature, 2 air or 2 water. Not as impressive as the lore master, but beats a buncha militia.

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

With Luck +3 my men found an item - Soul Contract - made the difference of my survival in my most recent game, and is still responsible for the backbone of my army!

PvK

Re: Order +3 Luck -3 : still a no-brainer

What event frequency are people playing with?

I have been playing commen events for awhile now as its more balenced and I'm using a +-13% (mis)fortune mod which alters the chance that an event is good/bad by 13% per level of dominion. I have been mainly playing testing T'ien Ch'i theme mods so I have used this combo alot using luck3/turmoil3. Generally I use the Lady of Fortune as she makes a big differnce. With this setup I would say that I would generally have got ~1000gps by turn 20 - sometimes more, occassionally alot more. I do get bad events but I'm yet to get one in my home province using the Lady of Fortune - I suspect this is a run of really good luck.

I have actually started to enjoy the events as long as they don't cripple my home province. This happened as soon as I trialed the Prince of Death in a luck race (appropriate I guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ) ). Having to retake provinces occassionally is all part of the fun and there are alot of historical games I'm critical of for their lack of more significant events.

I've been keeping an eye on how many gems I get when I get a handful of gems and 2 seems fairly average - what is others experiance? If this is representative then its pretty piteful but I suspect luck has skewed things.

I would recommend people try a +-13 (mis)fortune mod and play commen events. This seems more balenced than playing standard with rare events. If you still want still better luck then change the mod to misfortune 15 making the chance of a good event with luck3 95%.

----------------------------------------
#modname "+-13 Fortune"
#description "This mod alters the chance an event is good (or bad) by 13% per level of (mis)fortune instead of the base 10. For those who find luck underpowered and misfortune not bad enough."
#Version 1.0
#domVersion 2.06

#misfortune 13
-------------------------------------------

Cheers

Keir

[ January 26, 2004, 07:29: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]