Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

While I did state my opinion in one sentence, I wasn't really interesting in debating it since it has been done and I don't want to re-hash it since I don't have anything new to add to the debate on whether they are more powerful on paper. And I am not even saying that I get trounced by Ermor or that they always win the conflict. I even admitted the possibility that maybe just everyone thinks they are over-powered.

I am saying that, for whatever reason, it has caused every large map game I have played to turn into world vs. Ermor (barring the one I allied with them for a change of pace). Hype or no hype. Noobs or non noobs (and I am the former, don't think I have doubts about that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

- Kel

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

Oh, and let me add that while I am a very avid player and have gotten a few games under my belt, it is by no means a statistically significant, or even large, sample http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It could be pure coincidence. I hope so, anyway.

- Kel

[ April 30, 2004, 02:11: Message edited by: Kel ]

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

I like having Ermor around when I'm not Ermor. They're such a huge magnet for public ire, due to Kel's reported "everyone vs. Ermor" effect, that I can justify nearly anything in the name of "let's kill Ermor", all while pursuing my own agenda which has absolutely nothing to do with actually doing anything about Ermor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

Zen, maybe it's because they have a big scare factor. All the living immediately drop their swords against each other and gang up on Ermor when it comes into play.

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

I believe it is the MP learning curve and nothing else. Since games take weeks if not months to play, it is much easier to say the 'greater factor is this' because people spend more of their initial time playing against a certain strategy/level until they learn to overcome it. And it takes a while to learn to counter those strategies simply because this isn't a WC3 game over in 20 minutes game.

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

I think that it's a combination of the factors: Ermor *DOES* have a large scare factor that tends to intimidate players: As a result, they'll often drop everything to gang up on Ermor.

Unfortunately, this tends to actually stunt their ability to learn how to ACTUALLY deal with the problem, since they come to see the dogpile manuever as their most effective solution. Then they complain that Ermor is overpowered because it requires a dogpile of everyone vs. Ermor to defeat.

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

It seems to me that Ermor both is and isnt overpowered at the same time. Ermor is very one dimensional but also very powerful in that dimension and its easy for people to see this. I've been playing dom2 for about a two months and im just now starting to get into the semi-correct usage of battle spells. Maybe thats just Ermor's flavor... they can be used well by almost anyone, they scare people alot, and the AI can't handle them well. Offsetting this is the perception people have of all these things which causes people to gang up on them.

The disadvantage of having everyone with a preconcieved notion that your top dog certainly doesnt seem worth any advantage they have.

Even when Kel says most games he play devolve into everyone vs Ermor... that doesnt mean Ermor wins often, or at all.

Quite frankly i dont want to see a game where every faction seems like a recreation of the others with a different paintjob, and i love the fact that there are factions that work in radically different ways.

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just to make it completely clear, I am in no way saying that they normally do or do not win World vs Ermor battles.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, see, that's kind of borrowing from my point, actually. You don't want nations to all be the same (and neither do I, then again, theother nations aren't all the same and they don't have this effect)...but it is turning all of my games into being the same (more or less). That's just as bad !

- Kel

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

Sure, I've got no problems with nations being dramatically different, but I think they should be based around rational concepts. Nothing like the killer dominions.

"I've got an idea! We have this theme that uses hordes of free troops! Because they're free, you don't need scales to support them, so they'll have a beefy SC Pretender ALL THE TIME! Oh, and their dominion KILLS EVERYONE, so armies can't invade without nature magic or fay boars! And when they do, the land is TOTALLY USELESS because EVERYONE'S DEAD!"

Re: Paper, Rock, Marignon!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ya, a lot of the time you can get away with saying "Don't attack me, I'm trying to get rid of Ermor" regardless of whether you actually are or not. Doesn't really work with any other nation.

I don't think Ermor is especially powerful, but with Miasma and Carrion Woods, they are among the most annoying nations to fight against.