Re: Worst Summon ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. I've mentioned Podarkes, my elite Cave Drake flying carpet commando squad leader, before.

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Druids with Ivy Crown and Thistle Mace summon 2/turn for ONE nature gem, and have the upkeep of 7 infantry. A nature-1 mage with a treelord staff and ivy crown can bring 3/turn for one nature gem, and probably even less maintenance. Crank crank crank... Clockwork Horrors use a bunch of earth gems, and IIRC require magical leadership. Anyone can lead vine ogres around, and they are relatively tough compared to Clockwork Horrors. Lots of different pros and cons, but Vine Ogres are quite good, even in fairly small numbers, as long as you combine them effectively with other troops. The point is not to make an ALL VINE OGRE army... that wouldn't be so hot. However, combined as something ELSE the enemy must deal with, along with whatever else you have, vine ogres can make a big difference, especially because they don't use food, are fairly fast, and you get a lot of toughness for every spare ordinary leadership point you have.

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How about a nature-2 mage using a treelord's staff and a moOnline bracelet from the arsenal this month?

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

Corpse Man Construction is better when you have one of the items that makes the spell give you more corpse men.

Soulless are pathetic but still take effort to kill, can go underwater and can't be life-drained and are immune to various threats, such as poison (cough) and coral weapons (cough). They are not the worst summons by far, if you use them as part of a larger plan.

So far I only see people posting about units that they don't appreciate because they haven't figured out how to use them effectively.

Worst summon is perhaps summoning something ridiculous using a Wish.

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats how I tend to see it. And most of the game really.

I dont really knock such an attitude. But I do like to say that the way to excell in this game is to experiment and find what works for you. What lets you do the things you would do anyway. Other peoples strategys are fun to read but they dont just fit in your pocket like in other games.

Anyway, I highly recommend that anyone people avoid thinking of things as weak or useless. You will find that advanced players refer to them as "things I havent found a use for yet". That way you might test it again later. Or at least you wont be so stunned when you come up against someone who did find a use for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 18, 2004, 00:00: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

Wishing for souless seems like a pretty useless summon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I've found a lot of summons to be substandard to the point of uselessness. The list includes:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Spirits of the Wood: Hama dryads are weak, immobile, fragile, and expensive. The worst of all possible worlds.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Corpse Man Construction: 1 souless isn't enough of a return to justify spending a mage's turn, let alone any gems.</font>

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

The real issue is whether or not you can use them effectively.

You can use Corpse Men effectively, but it's more costly than it's worth.

I have yet to play in a game where someone uses their Air Gem Income, with an Staff of Storms (or Lightning Rod) and start summoning Corpse Men.

The same can be said for Hama Dryads. I have never summoned them for their cost effectiveness or their special abilities; but on a lark.

Both of those units could use a slight change or adjustment in either +Path bonuses to make them more attractive to even use them situationally.

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

Corpse Man Construction is a level-one spell, and would be useful early on for someone who had a death-1 air-1 mage (and preferably, a lightning rod) to make an amphibious army (IIRC that they can go underwater like most undead).

It's not an impressive spell, but that's appropriate for a level-one spell, no?

I have used it in MP, but only because I had a Staff of Storms available which I didn't want to use for other purposes, and a death-1 air-1 mage without anything better to do. Seemed like a pretty decent way thing to do with a temporarily-idle staff of storms.

That's something to keep in mind when thinking about balance: there are many items which increase magic power level, and sometimes the powerful mages who use them, don't need them for several turns, while they do something else. So weaker mages can borrow powerful items without costing anyone anything, and can thus cast spells which might seem under-powered for the required magic path levels, but are quite good for a weak mage who is borrowing power-boosting items.

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats how I tend to see it. And most of the game really.

I dont really knock such an attitude. But I do like to say that the way to excell in this game is to experiment and find what works for you. What lets you do the things you would do anyway. Other peoples strategys are fun to read but they dont just fit in your pocket like in other games.

Anyway, I highly recommend that anyone people avoid thinking of things as weak or useless. You will find that advanced players refer to them as "things I havent found a use for yet". That way you might test it again later. Or at least you wont be so stunned when you come up against someone who did find a use for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Those are some excellent points, Gandalf, and they illustrate what a great game this is. In many games that are only developed to the point of release and then abandoned by the corporation that paid for their development, there are only a few best strategies which need to be found and used to play competetively. Dominions gives a lot more leeway for playing with a wide variety of styles. Players can afford to find things that are useful to them, and to discard things which aren't useful, and still be able to play effectively. Also, there are many nations and situations where some techniques aren't very useful, or aren't available, which happen to be great when used by other nations, other styles, or in other circumstances.

PvK

Re: Worst Summon ??
 

Personally I'd say Contact Draconians. Extreme cost and while they look kind of neat on paper they seem to die very easily in practice.