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- Space Empires: IV & V (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

- - New Bug? (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=20337)

Roanon

August 15th, 2004 07:23 PM

Re: New Bug?

I think it happend like that:

Alarikf declared war on me. This was instantly flagged on the client side, and this flag has been taken over by the host. (OT: this should NEVER be done with Online games, client has to be allowed to send commands only and not to change ANY data directly, host data MUST BE modified the host programm validating and evaluating client-issued commands only. I hope this is done more striktly in SEV).

The host program run the turn, somehow loosing the Messages before evaluating them. There are known problems with Messages in large games, we all know that trades tend to get lost when not done as the very Last thing during the turn. The result was that Alneyans already flagged empire shot at me, while the lost message never resulted in a like change of the flag on my empire's side.

Renegade 13

August 15th, 2004 08:52 PM

Re: New Bug?

Therefore, if you re-send your declarations of war, your ships should behave as they should have in combat.

Roanon

August 15th, 2004 09:08 PM

Re: New Bug?

Maybe, if the same bug doesn't strike again - and only from next turn on. Would be nice if the damage done this turn could be undone. If not, I'll have to live with it, but not another turn.

Greybeard

August 16th, 2004 01:08 AM

Re: New Bug?

Quote:

alarikf said:
Here's something else I just noticed - can either Geo or Roanon look at the battle for Hurvinek VII? My planet there is listed as "taken" by Roanon's ground troops - this acurred in the same place where he was attacking an Earth colony (whom he was at war with) and would be the only instance where his ships took offensive action against me - so its another wrinkle. Color me confused.

Alarik

This is a know bug that you can capture the planet of an ally when attacking the planet of an enemy. It has happened to me at least twice in PBW, one where I captured an ally's planet, and once when one of mine was captured. I declared war when my planet was taken before learning of the bug...

Atrocities

August 16th, 2004 02:21 AM

Re: New Bug?

I haven't read all the Posts in the thead yet, but this sounds like an intel attack to me.

geoschmo

August 16th, 2004 03:14 PM

Re: New Bug?

Quote:

Suicide Junkie said:
The treaty status could be a key symptom.

Perhaps the declaration of war was hit by a comm interception intel op or something, so they were only half at war...

Quote:

Roanon said:
I think it happend like that:

Alarikf declared war on me. This was instantly flagged on the client side, and this flag has been taken over by the host. (OT: this should NEVER be done with Online games, client has to be allowed to send commands only and not to change ANY data directly, host data MUST BE modified the host programm validating and evaluating client-issued commands only. I hope this is done more striktly in SEV).

The host program run the turn, somehow loosing the Messages before evaluating them. There are known problems with Messages in large games, we all know that trades tend to get lost when not done as the very Last thing during the turn. The result was that Alneyans already flagged empire shot at me, while the lost message never resulted in a like change of the flag on my empire's side.

I obviously can't say that this is definetly not the case, but I have never seen or even heard of anything remotely like this happening. Like everyone else I have heard of problems with Messages getting lost, but I have never seen a situation where two empires were "halfway" at war like this. What are the odds that a bug this serious has never occured before now in all the games of SE4 that have been played?

I will send an email to Malfador tonight when I get home. Maybe they can figure it out.

Geoschmo

geoschmo

August 16th, 2004 04:51 PM

Re: New Bug?

Ok, well I'm leaning back the other way towards thinking you guys are right and it's some sort of "halfway" treaty thing. I ran the next turn offline and the ships act very similer, dancing around and whatnot. In several places where your ships are sharing sectors there are a couple of combat rounds played in each place. They do the dance for a couple rounds worth of combat and then finally wake up and start shooting on the Last round of combat.

I thought that was interesting, so I replayed the turn again this time taking control of Roanons empire and declaring war on the other guy. This time all Roanons ships go right to shooting like they should and all the combats only happen once.

This is quite bizarre to me. I know I've seen many games where one player has broken treaty and not declared war and both ships fight on the same turn. Not sure why it's not working right here. Malfador will have to try and track that down cause I've reached the limit of what I can figure out by rerunning turns.

We could roll the turn back and let you all do the Last turn over. For whatever reason Alarik's war declaration did not get to Roanon. There is no intel project that would stop a comm like that. You can tap comms or fake a declaration, but not stop one from going through normally. It must have something to do with that known communication bug that affects trades from time to time. If both of you declare war it should avoid the problem.

Geoschmo

AMF	August 16th, 2004 07:42 PM

Re: New Bug?

So...he gets to know that I'm attacking him, huh? sigh. Oh well.

Quote:

geoschmo said:
Ok, well I'm leaning back the other way towards thinking you guys are right and it's some sort of "halfway" treaty thing. I ran the next turn offline and the ships act very similer, dancing around and whatnot. In several places where your ships are sharing sectors there are a couple of combat rounds played in each place. They do the dance for a couple rounds worth of combat and then finally wake up and start shooting on the Last round of combat.

I thought that was interesting, so I replayed the turn again this time taking control of Roanons empire and declaring war on the other guy. This time all Roanons ships go right to shooting like they should and all the combats only happen once.

This is quite bizarre to me. I know I've seen many games where one player has broken treaty and not declared war and both ships fight on the same turn. Not sure why it's not working right here. Malfador will have to try and track that down cause I've reached the limit of what I can figure out by rerunning turns.

We could roll the turn back and let you all do the Last turn over. For whatever reason Alarik's war declaration did not get to Roanon. There is no intel project that would stop a comm like that. You can tap comms or fake a declaration, but not stop one from going through normally. It must have something to do with that known communication bug that affects trades from time to time. If both of you declare war it should avoid the problem.

Geoschmo

Roanon

August 16th, 2004 09:15 PM

Re: New Bug?

Quote:

alarikf said:
So...he gets to know that I'm attacking him, huh? sigh. Oh well.

I don't like this option - I don't think that's fair.

Better thing would be it could be fixed by MM, running the turn with the same .plr files. Maybe MM can just decode my .plr file, add the two declarations of war to it(on Aether Lords and True Republic) enabling me to shoot back, make a new .plr and redo the turn with this?

Another option might be, I usually save the game before sending Messages, which I do Last every turn, as they cannot be undone. I could use this savegame, add the sent Messages as far as I can remember, add the 2 declarations of war enabling me to shoot back, and subit the turn otherwise unchanged. That requires some trust though, and is therefor not a good option; I would prefer MM fixing it one way or the other.

AMF	August 16th, 2004 09:20 PM

Re: New Bug?

Quote:

Roanon said:
Another option might be, I usually save the game before sending Messages, which I do Last every turn, as they cannot be undone. I could use this savegame, add the sent Messages as far as I can remember, add the 2 declarations of war enabling me to shoot back, and subit the turn otherwise unchanged. That requires some trust though, and is therefor not a good option; I would prefer MM fixing it one way or the other.

Dude, I trust ya. That's fine with me. I presume all the other players would also abide by this idea?

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