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-   Dominions 2: The Ascension Wars (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55)
-   -   Looking for help with SC pretenders (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=20718)

deccan September 8th, 2004 01:34 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Cainehill said:
(For example: my scout watched _two_ very well equipped golems lose to one VQ. In fact - the VQ was unconscious, and the tramplers _STILL_ couldn't do anything to her - they'd trample, the VQ would shift about the battlefield in her sleep, and the golems kept losing fatigue until the VQ woke up and finished things. This, despite the fact that the golems had good weapons.)
IIRC, the astral golem doesn't have trample innate right? Guess the lesson is it's a waste to give boots of the behemoth AND magic weapons to an SC.

Arryn September 8th, 2004 01:37 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
deccan said:
Guess the lesson is it's a waste to give boots of the behemoth AND magic weapons to an SC.
Or Boots and Stymphalian Wings.

alexti September 8th, 2004 01:44 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Nagot Gick Fel said:
Quote:
The Panther said:
I am sure it is the same against any other SC who has quickness/flying/mistform. Trample has a pathetically low probability against these buffs.
Nope, the big decider here is etherealness (although if the trampled has a lifedraining attack it's even worse). For the record, I saw an AI Dagon lose an arena dearhmatch to a Black Servant once.

Myself I learned the effectiveness of etherealness vs trampling the hard way in my first MP a few years ago, when I lost THREE Iron Dragons to a Dusk Elder and an etherealized Ghoul! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
Just a few days back I've learned that trampling is much more dangerous than I thought. Some crazy golem with stymphalian wings had nearly trampled my fully equipped wraith lord to death. The problem is that the trampling still causes the damage (1 hp) and the wraith lord doesn't have too many of them to start with and there's no way to replenish them vs Golem. My WL has barely get away with it, finishing the battle with only few HP left.

alexti September 8th, 2004 01:50 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Cainehill said:
(For example: my scout watched _two_ very well equipped golems lose to one VQ. In fact - the VQ was unconscious, and the tramplers _STILL_ couldn't do anything to her - they'd trample, the VQ would shift about the battlefield in her sleep, and the golems kept losing fatigue until the VQ woke up and finished things. This, despite the fact that the golems had good weapons.)
VQ is not in danger because of the regeneration, otherwise she would be risking to run out of HP (like what nearly had happened to my wraith lord). But of course, knowing what it has to fight VQ has little problems dealing with such golems, whether it is by Hand-Of-Deathing them or dusk-daggering or both.

Pickles September 8th, 2004 06:01 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Cainehill said:
(For example: my scout watched _two_ very well equipped golems lose to one VQ. In fact - the VQ was unconscious, and the tramplers _STILL_ couldn't do anything to her - they'd trample, the VQ would shift about the battlefield in her sleep, and the golems kept losing fatigue until the VQ woke up and finished things. This, despite the fact that the golems had good weapons.)
I am pretty sure 0 enc golems do not get fatigue from trampling. Otherwise sounds right.

Pickles

Boron September 8th, 2004 08:10 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Cainehill said:
(For example: my scout watched _two_ very well equipped golems lose to one VQ. In fact - the VQ was unconscious, and the tramplers _STILL_ couldn't do anything to her - they'd trample, the VQ would shift about the battlefield in her sleep, and the golems kept losing fatigue until the VQ woke up and finished things. This, despite the fact that the golems had good weapons.)
How did the Vq get unconscious ?
She has 0 melee encumberance so did she win against the golems AND e.g. a drainlife caster to fatigue her ?
Or does trampling do fatigue to the target ?

Tuna September 8th, 2004 10:09 AM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Just my take on the Sc-lot: Prince of Death with 4 air, 4 death, optionally some earth or water. Give him a water sword (or better, two) at start to replace that horrible wand he has, research some alteration and you are good to go. The main thing going for him is the enc-0, innate flying, good stats and full set of equip slots that make him into a terrific late-game sc. Early in the game, his suberb fear means he doesn't really have to kill indeps, just stay untouched until they flee, which doesn't take too long. Also, his innate high death is very good for caelum because it fills the caelian void of summon magic.

Cainehill September 8th, 2004 12:10 PM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Boron said:
Quote:
Cainehill said:
(For example: my scout watched _two_ very well equipped golems lose to one VQ. In fact - the VQ was unconscious, and the tramplers _STILL_ couldn't do anything to her - they'd trample, the VQ would shift about the battlefield in her sleep, and the golems kept losing fatigue until the VQ woke up and finished things. This, despite the fact that the golems had good weapons.)
How did the Vq get unconscious ?
She has 0 melee encumberance so did she win against the golems AND e.g. a drainlife caster to fatigue her ?
Or does trampling do fatigue to the target ?
Casted enough big spells to drive her unconscious.

That said - it really seems that I've watched VQs and perhaps some other beings continue doing things when their fatigue is over 100. Possibly a bug.

Thufir September 8th, 2004 01:02 PM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Quote:
Cainehill said:
That said - it really seems that I've watched VQs and perhaps some other beings continue doing things when their fatigue is over 100. Possibly a bug.
I believe I've seen this with all my pretenders, but it's hard to say if it's a bug, or a reflection of ambiguous combat reporting. Much as I enjoy this game, I really have a hard time getting a precise understanding of what has ocurred in combat, based on watching the replays.

The ambiguous aspect w/r to fatigue is that I don't know the sequence of recording fatigue vs. when actions are taken. For example if my pretender shows 103, then the next round the sequence could be:
1) fatigue drops to 98
2) pretender casts 5 fatigue spell
3) fatigue back to 103
4) fatigue updated on pretender's fatigue display

In which case, no bug.

But I've seen other cases where I something more complex is going on, but I really don't know enough about fatigue mechanics to attribute it to a bug, or my lack of knowledge.

Whatever the case, one of my most wished for improvements in this game is more detailed/accurate information reported during combat.

Huzurdaddi September 8th, 2004 05:12 PM
Re: Looking for help with SC pretenders
 
Tuna,

nice post that sounds like a good pretender.


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