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Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

Yimboli said:
...many criticisms are summarily ignored...

Or, perhaps, they are agreed with, which is less likely to get a posted response than something disagreed with?

Captain Kwok said:
90-95% of the currently reported bugs/flaws were reported - but unfortunately the release date came before most of these could be addressed.

Though people need to keep in mind that there were a lot of bugs fixed and features rebuilt for playability purposes during the beta, so it's not like Aaron twiddled his thumbs or anything...

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

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Artaud said:
I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.

I've never seen someone told that they should not give their opinion. I have seen people offer:

1. help with customizing the UI
2. Custom MODs available BEFORE the game was even official
3. Details about Malfador's patch policy, which is great.

Other than that, what help can be expected here from a bunch of guys here on a forum setup for FANS of the game? There are things that will be patched, things that can be modded (or customized, like the UI) and there is the core game, which is pretty much set in stone.

How much validation does someone need if, after all that help, they still dont' like the game? What is the board supposed to do? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

I honestly did not mean that criticism should be squelched and everyone should sing the praises of se5. I will admit that it has problems. I intended NO hostility toward anyone at all but I do believe that most of the people who love this series do so primarily for the moddabily. The complainning I refered to primarily comes from people who have probably never played the series and jump in (and actually wasn't even on these boards). kwok brought up a good point that the problems do prevent the fanbase from growing to an extent because new players do get put off at first. So I apologize if anyone felt I was being harsh or rude. I know we've all seen a game we thought was ok just needing a little work SLAMMED in forums by people who just expected instant gratification.
Luckily these forums do tend to be open and everyone seems to be well spoken and polite. So to the new players and those put off by the game I would say...have a little patience and give it chance. It will grow on you.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

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Xrati said:
The Beta Testers should have been choosen more carefully. It IS an important step in releasing a product. Many of these bugs could have been found in the playtesting and patched before release. These don't seem to be bugs that require a 'long' game to discover, but are 'in fact' some basic game operations that are flawed. While I don't agrue that the playtesters did a good job, maybe they just needed some modders and dedicated players to have been playtesting?

With all due respect Xrait, you were not involed in the beta testing therefore you have no knowledge as to what went on. So please keep your specultive derogatory, and that is the way I read it, comments regarding the "beta, or beta testers" private.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

Not knowing how the play testing did go, does not matter. I see the end product! I had hoped, it would have turned out to be better. It appears as all the original purchasers are the testers! While I have no doubt that all the bugs will get fixed. I'm afraid that the game has already lost a good portion of sales due to the original release of a "bugged" game. Once you lose creditability, it�s hard to regain it.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

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mac5732 said:
This Forum has always been open for everyone's opinions, whether is was for, against, or whatever. To say one is tired of hearing complaints on a particular game is an unfair ascertaion to the meaning of this forum. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Thats what has made this forum a unique place among forums. We have no flame wars as we respect everyones opinions whether we agree or disagree. What better place to discuss the aspects of various games, the pros and the cons. There have been many discussions on a whole range of games as well as other topics within this forum. Everyone here has a right to put forth their opinion as long as the forum rules are observed. This forum encourages discussion among its members on games and other topics. Not everyone will agree or disagree on any one topic. That is our choice. Therefore, if one dislikes, is dissatified, loves, or becomes addicted to a game he/she has the right to express his/her opion without ridicule. No computer game is perfect, and on the same hand, some games are released to soon and still need work. Where better to discuss the problems, bugs and whatever then here on the forum where everyone is able to put forth their 2 cents. Which in turn can/is relayed to the designers of that particular game. after all, isn't the whole idea to make the game/s better, more playable, and fun for everyone? This can be accomplished by explaining bugs, problems, etc that are found by us the gamers in order to be delivered again to the designers. In addition, sometimes, what some consider to be bugs or flaws, after discussions here on the forum, are found to be just the opposite and have legitimate reasons for doing what they do, or one finds that they were using them wrong or not in the proper way. Without discussion of the pros and cons, some of these complaints would be unnecessarily sent to the designers which would take up constructive time from fixing the actual problems that were found.

This is my opinion and not intended to hurt anyones feelings but to put forth my impressions of what this forum is/has/was and continues to be, a free and constructive forum on all aspects of games and other topics where no one should be afraid to give their opions/feelings/likes/dislikes/ on the topics contained within.

THIS FORUM is a very open minded, helpful and cooperative one. If this forum was the "Official Forum" it would be better, unfortunately the people new to the game are going to go to the official site. I know several of you visit the other site and help where you can but it may not be enough to really help sell the idea to wait for the patches and give the game a chance. REMEMBER what happened with moo3! admittedly it did not have the support this does but if the people do not know about the mods and other items this forum has that are not posted on the "official" one then the game may not be the success it has the potential to be.

I know way to wordy and roundabout but i have not slept lately. yawn. just my 2 cents worth.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

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Kana said:

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Atrocities said:
Was the game released to early, YES, yes it was. I say at least 8 to 12 more weeks were needed. However by releasing the game early, a ton of new bug reports have been generated by players. So in the end, releasing the game in the state that it was in was a good move for improving the game, but a bad move for those explecting a 100% bug free game on version 1.0. (Unrealistic in my opinion but hey they are out there, and they ***** like mad when things aren't bug free.)

I agree as well...yet I heard of the 50 or so beta testers...about half or more flaked out, which left the rest with a large workload. Plus it seems that most companies now are pre-releasing most game, in some form of public beta test, months before release, to squash bugs, balance game play, and test game engine, and any MP infrastrucure if need for said game. In many instances, Company of Heroes for instance, made the end release a much better game, not mention helped the hype of the game.

SEV could have used a bit more beta testing in my opinon, maybe a slightly large pool of testers other than the initial 50...Yet with MM track record of patching, and listening, and now that this is his so called full time job, he will be able to do it in a more timely fashion than SEIV. So I say play the game to death, find out whats wrong, and report it. The game will become better, and the mods will make it playable for many years to come. Much longer than some other games I've played in the past 6 years.

AT, My comment was based on this information. The modders and "Hard CORE" players would have made excellent testers. To those playtesters who stuck it out, 'Great Job!' They are not the ones I'm talking about. They are still here on this forum and still playing and modding. I meant we just could have used more of them and I still beleive that they should have been chosen better. To those who bailed, well enough said.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

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Elsemeravin said:

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Yimboli said:
I have. It's nothing I can put a finger on and say "Here's the hostility! Here's what we're talking about! Everyone look at this!" but I've felt it. I've seen little or no outright bashing of critics on the forums, but I have noticed that many criticisms are summarily ignored, yielding contempt and a growing split.

Don't you think it could simply be that reasonable people will easily react and add comments to one opinion they agree with, while only read without answering to someone whose opinion they do not agree with.
They of course the result is a few post with negative opinion and few answers and more enthusiastic posts with many emotional answers.
It does not necessarily means contempt and ignoring.

could be! but I'm not the only one talking about a split.

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

Xrati said:
The modders and "Hard CORE" players would have made excellent testers.

2/3 of the testers are modders and "hard-core" players, though. They were chosen well. The only ones that were not explicitly chosen are the ones that won the lottery, or that got a slot from the Race to SEV tournament.

For the record, it was far less than half that "flaked out..." Really only a few. There were a few that had to stop testing due to real life reasons, but there is nothing shameful about that (or foreseeable).

Re: SE5 bad reviews and problems.

I have to agree with Fyron. There are over 11,000 posts in the beta forum in just over a year. This does not include the Chat sessions, Features DB, or emails to Aaron. The beta was officialy delayed once or twice do to RL issues but not for long. The beta testers were an exceptional bunch of dedicated people who spent a lot of their personal free time testing the game. Their efforts made the difference and if you were to ask Aaron about it, I am willing to bet my copy of SE V that he has nothing but good things to say about most of the beta testers.

I have been invovled in at least five beta tests now and by far this one has been the most productive of them all. Our suggestions and bug reports were acted upon by Aaron.

Aaron is only one man, and being steam rolled with bug reports, feature requests, suggestions, and other, does result in a more drawn out beta than if there were a team of programers working on the game. For one man, and a small beta test team, Aaron has done a wonderful job with SE V. The game will only continue to get better as the bug reports keep coming in. In a year I will bet we will all be very happy with this game and will even be discussing what we would like to see in an expansion pack.

This game has so much potential that it fills me with joy just thinking about it. And to actually make me fill optomisic enough to feel joy given the way my mind works, is truly a profound thing.

The more the bugs and dislikes about the game are reported in a constructive helpful manor, the better the game will ultimately become. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif