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- - The Middle Way X - Faerun EA [Abandoned] (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33164)

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

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FrankTrollman said:

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Care to elucidate?

Opening up the CB file is a window into perplexing comedy.

...

Wow. That's a pretty compelling argument, Frank. I get what you're saying about selective use, but I can't say I understand the game well enough to say for myself whether CB is in fact fatally flawed, or not. At the least you've pushed my opinion far enough to categorize it as "experimental", and as such I'd vote against it for the purposes of this game.

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

I was the first person to sign up, yet Im not in the list....

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

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Evilhomer said:
I was the first person to sign up, yet Im not in the list....

I was waiting for your nation pick - I'll put you in now though.

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

I'm not on the list either, and I posted before Izzyz and imororg (and they are on).

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

Just for the hell of it im going to argue some more, even if im completly fine with doing a vanilla game aswell =)

Trollman wrote:
In an attempt to somehow make blessing less important they gave giant boosts to the Oracle, Blood Fountain, and Master Lich. Do I have to draw you a diagram? Those gods already start with 3 in a path and a high dominion. For a Double or Triple Bless Startegy that's all that matters - the god is going to be imprisoned anyway.

The "giant" boosts to the blood fountain and the oracle is that they receive 2 astral gems/slaves per turn. If you imprison them as you say you will receive an additional 2 gems starting from about turn 30 (good players have gem income of 50+ at this point). This is hardly a "giant" boost to a bless strat, in fact it's so small it won't be noticed...

The lich...thing is he starts with death 3, not a great path to build most bless strategies with to be honest. Also he will never be a good rainbow searcher (there are better choices), neither an sc (5 hp). Maybe the cost reduction was a bit to much but there are still better chassis to build blesses around for sure.

I do agree that some points in the cb is not optional to a big game like this (basically scales where boosted with small game blitzes in mind, they are to strong in a game like this), but I still think there are more pro's than con's to be honest

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

Cool, another Faerun game. I love that map.

You can sign me up with Helheim (unless that scares people too much at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif) , it's about time I play with one of the heims and see what the fuss is about.

Oh, and about the victory conditions: imo this map is made to played with VPs, else there will be little reason to attack the well-defended ones.

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

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Evilhomer said:
edit: the link you are giving is to the old cb mod i belive, should be a 1.0 out there.

Fixed.

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

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FrankTrollman said:

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Care to elucidate?

Opening up the CB file is a window into perplexing comedy.

Specific problems are too numerous to even mention because there are too many for me to even count off on my fingers, after which I lose track.

From a conceptual standpoint, the CB series seems to come from a standpoint of simply looking at all the things that are most often used in his experience and then nerf them all. And then take all the things that are rarely used and give them boosts. Unfortunately, this is completely retarded and unsalvageable way to go about anything because there's the whole notion of "selective utility" which the designer of CB seems to just plain not understand at all.

See, if a unit or spell is selectively useful, that means that it is highly useful in some circumstances, and won't be used in others. And the game is full of that stuff. That's part of the strategy. If I'm not fighting a glamour army, I don't pack Chariot Archers, and so on. But if you simply look at all that stuff that is rarely used and make it good enough that you'd use it all the time then you have something which owns things in its niche, and is totally useful all the time anyway. That's actually broken.

But then on top of that, in addition to just going about giving bonuses and nerfs to units that really don't need it on grounds that make no sense (your normal mainline units get nerfed and your specialty problem-solver units get bonuses so that it just inverts your production schedule for no reason), the actual changes don't make any sense at all.

In an attempt to somehow make blessing less important they gave giant boosts to the Oracle, Blood Fountain, and Master Lich. Do I have to draw you a diagram? Those gods already start with 3 in a path and a high dominion. For a Double or Triple Bless Startegy that's all that matters - the god is going to be imprisoned anyway.

I mean, the Master Lich starts with a 3 Death, a Dominion of 3, and a Pathcost of 20! But for some reason the Conceptual Balance geniuses decided that he'd be better off costing forty less points. What the hell? Seriously, what the hell is that? With the points you save on Dominion, he's actually a cheaper triple bless platform than an Archmage. And this was supposed to decrease the preponderance of bless strategies?

It is not a project that has accomplished anything, it's a phenominal waste of time. It's not just that they have repeated boner moves like the Oracle and the Divine Serpent, it's that the very methodology of the mod creation is actually incapable of delivering a decent or balanced product.

-Frank

Nice. Perhaps next time you should consider playing with it before commenting on it being a phenomenal "waste of time". Especially considering your completely ignorant remark on the usefulness of those chassis as bless. If you paid any attention to cb mod at all, perhaps you'd like to find the points for these triple blesses you are speaking of. Not to mention Fountain of Blood and master Lich are awful bless chassis. As for anyone talking about master lich being a good rainbow, I'll duel anyone in a best of three series, you pick master lich. Lastly, your manner leaves room for desiring. As for your chariot archers stopping dual blessed HelHerdlings with Sulphur Haze, you were playing noobs. Bye.

Re: The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Recruiting]

Frank,

I have read your drivel one too many times on this board. You are *always* on the wrong side of arguments wrt. balance. You simply do not know what you are talking about and you really should keep your mouth shut when the subject comes up.

Seriously, the master lich is a bless chassis? Really? For what? The feared D9 bless? Nerfing things that are most commonly used is "retarded" LOL! Do you even THINK before you post ( answer: no )? Why do you think that some units are commonly used? Is it people looking for flavour in MP games? Seriously why don't you do us all a favor and shoot yourself in you god forsaken face?

QM has done a great job with the CB mod for Dom3. Dom3 needed it badly. Heck I don't know if he went far enough, but he is trying to take small steps on some on the more broken units.

Hey, maybe I am being harsh but when Frank does something *anything* as good as QM then he can talk smack. Seriously, anything.