Re: Any Plans
 

Shouldn't that be the other way around?
cost to fun ratio = cost/fun. If cost/fun=high, then the game costs a lot when considering how fun it is.
Instead, it has a high fun to cost ratio, so fun/cost = high = a lot. Considering the problem is that the game costs a lot you get: fun/(a lot) = a lot => fun = (a lot)^2, which is much more descriptive of Dominions 3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Any Plans
 

If someone can't see how much variety and strategy the game has from the demo, they haven't spent enough time playing the demo.This is a pet peeve of mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Gamers are notorious cheapskates who often seem to forget that games are a luxury item. They constantly whine about how expensive indy games are, even after people have repeatedly explained the concept of economies of scale to them. I'd rather see Shrapnel and Illwinter stay in business and make more games, than try to placate the complainers who will never be satisfied with a game's asking price.

Re: Any Plans
 

If they do not buy every crap that comes to market they should have a lot of money to spend on few good games. And they spent at least $1000 for their computer, so I am sure they can spend $50 every few months for a game.

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A few times during a year shrapnel games might provide a 10% to 15% discount. I purchase about 3 games during a year and would definitely recommend buying this game for any TBS gamer.
IDEA_1: If these friends are relatives you could buy them the game as a birthday present.
IDEA_2: You could also uninstall the game on your computer, let them have your copy of the game for one week thus you'll have to play other games. After a week passes they uninstall the game and return your copy of the game back to your hands. One week should be enough time to determine whether or not they enjoy the game. This idea will only work if these friends are honorable and local to your area.
IDEA_3: If any of these friends visit your house once a month or more then you can organize a hotseat game on your computer.
IDEA_4: If they play at least 3 different games in the demo those friends will probably enjoy it enough to purchase the game. At least that's what worked for me on the Dominions_2 demo.

Re: Any Plans
 

I think you guys are forgetting that you already know how awesome Dominions 3 is. For someone who just plays the demo and looks at the cost, it's not nearly the same. It's very easy to spend $60 on something that ends up being complete garbage, so they're looking at the risk that Dom3 might be another one of those situations.

When you're younger, you have far less money and are far more attracted to flash rather than substance. Most gamers can tell you a story about how they saved up their money for the hottest newest game, bought it at full price, and got burned by what ended up being a complete waste of time.

We take that hard lesson with us as we grow up, and even full grown adults with expendable income are reluctant to spend what they feel is a corporate big budget price for an indy game. Of course we can tell them what a fool they are for not getting Dominons, but there is reluctance all the same.

I'm not really sure how to fix this. Obviously the developers deserve the money, but maybe there is a way to create a price break for a Dominions "light" vs. a Dominions "gold". The light version costs less, has full functionality, but perhaps slightly less content. Fewer nations, maps, maybe just Early Era. The gold version would of course be the real deal. Dominions "Light" players could at some point in the future pay the difference to upgrade to gold if they wanted the increased content.

Maybe not the best example, but I'm sure there's some business model that could solve this. Personally, I had to buy a 2nd copy for my friend because he thought it was too expensive. Which meant that I had to wait for his birthday, which meant the world of Dominions went without their God for several months. What a travesty! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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sector24:

Oh yes, Heroes of Might and Magic 4&5, what a waste of money...

With so many crap games today really many people pirate games and then buy ones they like. But it is not a thing to recommend to anyone. I just try not to touch anything made by EA and it makes choices much easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I have 2 games only now, Dom3 and ET:QW.

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I don't think the price here is as much an issue as the total lack of flash. Forgive me, because I really do love the game, but I do not think it is marketed well. I think one web site with the descriptions of the kingdoms from the book, along with appropriate graphics, could really help sell this game to the right audience. I think most strategy/fantasy gamers will respond to things like "Atlantis is inspired by lovecraft" and so on.

Just a thought, and I make no claims as an advertising consultant, but I do think a bit more "art" needs to go into marketting this game.

-Jeff

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I think that's a very good point jaif. When I come across a website with a load of background detail I always end up reading the whole thing and then really wanting the game. Dominions could do amazingly well like that.

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I've been thinking of doing few Dominions-based animations some day. Huge battles, grass catching fire under the Abysian army, demonbred or three flying above it all and raining fire and brimstone over their enemies - and a pretender crushing the whole Abysian army with relative ease. At the moment I'm at the "trying to model a human body" phase though, so it'll have to wait for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Any Plans
 

@ Agrajag: Heh heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

@ Theonlystd: As you can probably already guess, my feelings run along the same line as Capnq's response. I wanted to take a moment to further point out a couple of more differences.

The mainstream retail market has conditioned consumers to expect to see games marked down within weeks of release. Depending on how popular the game is, this mark down could be as much as 50% for those not selling well. Online retailers, needing to (a) compete with the brick and mortar world and (b) needing to sell in large volume typically mark down their games. Again, this creates a condition whereas the consumer expects to never have to pay full retail price for their game.

One of the initial reasons the indie world sprung up was to give the developers/publishers control over their own destiny, such as avoiding the scenario painted above. An indie developer can set their price and not worry that in two weeks after release they'll have to cut the price by 10%, 20%, et cetera.

And where does the money go between mainstream and indie games? For mainstream developers they're lucky to see even a dollar off of every purchase. Sometimes they see nothing.
For the indie developer though they're seeing a nice chunk of change for each purchase, which in turn means things like for the next game they can afford to upgrade their computers, hire more artists, and so on. Why would anyone volunteer to essentially take a pay cut as time goes on? Does anyone at a "normal" job say, "Hey boss, I've been here a month, please cut my salary in half!"

It's also interesting to me that folks sometimes expect indie games to cost less, simply because they're indie titles. I think some of that comes from the fact that too many developers undervalue their products, and sell everything for $19.95, although this has never been true for other publishers such as HPS, Spiderweb, or Stardock.

But here's some food for thought: in the real world outside of computer games "indie" products normally cost *more* than their mass produced items. For example, when buying a one-of-a-kind handcrafted bed you're going to pay more than a made in China, pressboard bed. So really, shouldn't indie games actually end up costing *more* than mainstream games, since they're handcrafted labors of love?

What if we strip the indie label though? Why not look at Shrapnel as simply a publisher who doesn't sell in brick and mortar stores?

In the end, hey, I know nothing I said above will ultimately make a difference for your friends to decide to open their wallets. People spend money as they see fit. But I hope it at least provides some insight as to why things are as they are.

Finally, yes, as I mentioned and as others have, there are periodical sales, although you won't ever see anything approaching 30-40% off. I just checked Amazon and they have it for $49.99, and it ships free. But no, don't expect any drastic price reductions in the near future.