.com.unity Forums - Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)

- WinSPWW2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139)

- - Don't Feel Sorry For The AI (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42733)

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 684147)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22 (Post 683383)

What did the AI pick? 60 75mm guns, only four of which were onboard. There was some other artillery but I didn't bother counting them.

The guns are what mostly gets me here, as having that many guns going off gets to be a real nuisance irrespective of what damage it may cause, but this battle also rather epitomized how lopsided things can often get in favor of the AI. In most situations at this close range (7 max) my AFV's would very often not hit on the first shot (probably 80% misses), while the Polish ones did, often destroying, with something close to a 50% ratio. For a couple of times I noticed the percentage on one of my tanks,

EVERY year the AI hands a player a hard time it's "suggested" the AI has an advantage. It's a regular event right along with us saying it doesn't get one so I won't bother saying it again

So, the AI picked 60 guns. Is there a save game ?? We always ask so is there one ? Without a save game so we can see what the AI picked and where on the pick list it was chosen we couldn't possibly guess what may or may not have gone on or if perhaps there is a problem with the way the pick is coded. The picklist for the AI is set up so there are always random variables otherwise it would be the same thing over and over and over and over and sometimes, as "luck" would have it, there may be the computer equivalent of rolling snake-eyes three or four times in a row and the little bits of code in the picklist that says...... "Buy this or that or in 10 chances out of 99 buy this AND that just to keep people on their toes" kicks in and then seemingly odd things happen

A save game of that 60 gun game would be nice to see

Don

Despite what it may had sounded like, as I suppose I didn't express myself as clearly as I ought to had done, I wasn't saying the game was defective, so why would I save the game and post it? It was more an observation than anything and an attempt to convince people that the AI can indeed seemingly rip you off. IOW, don't have mercy on it, because it 'can' rip you off, even if it's just a matter of getting boatloads of random odds against you; which is perhaps unlike most battles.

Despite how much time has passed since when I posted the thread, well yes, I do still have a save towards the end of the game. Only problem is I can't find it on my computer (but can in the game). If you really want to see it, telling me how to translate what I see on the 'load game list' screen would be helpful so I can find the file on the computer. I have looked for every single bit of data on my entire computer that shows on that screen, and nothing comes of these searches.

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch (Post 684230)

I’m sorry if it was unclear on a couple of things.
Number 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22 (Post 684065)

I can't make heads or tails of your observation. I can't see how 3 units attacking in any form would split 9 ways experience gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

If I attack each unit with three of my own

meaning that I have three units for every one unit of the enemy. 3 enemies X 3 units of mine = 9 total of mine units.

Number 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

You mentioned cutting back in France, do you indent to delete your lowest experienced units?(spelling fixed)

I made this comment based on the your comment, quoted below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22

I'm not interested in keeping my core smaller until France.

I was curious about how you decide to make your core smaller. I appeared to me that you might start with a large core, see who gets the most experience over the course of several battles and then delete the formations that did not progress. This would leave you with a selection of the most experienced units to take into France. If you have no desire to subtract units from your core, the misunderstanding is all mine.

Thank you for your comments. As I mentioned before, I don’t know all the ways that units get experience. What I do know is that units receive experience for moving, shooting and killing, and thanks to Andy, being in the core. My thought was this – if you have a large number of units in your core, some of them may not do as much moving, shooting and killing as others and consequently gain little experience. If those units didn’t exist (i.e. do to a smaller core), the experience they WOULD HAVE gained by moving, shooting and killing might end up going to other units, increasing their experience further then it might have been otherwise. I believe that my biggest mistake in understanding experience is that I subconsciously thought that there was a finite amount of experience in any given battle. If that were the case, then the more units you have, the less experience they could get. Since this is not the case, I stand corrected.

There may be a finite maximum each core can attain, regardless of size, but I had not thought of that, as I don't observe it that closely. Nonetheless, what I was saying about a larger force, drawing more enemies, therefore more possible kills, assuming some experience can be gained through kills, is that
the size of the force doesn't really matter, as the size of your force will always limit the size of the enemy, even if you decide to override the regular LC code and give the AI much larger advantages, or, conversely, less with giving your forces a substantial advantage by doing the same.

I just have always thought that one of two things gave you the most 'possible' experience 1) kills and 2)just being in core or firing guns. I had never thought a unit moving would make any difference, but you may be right. I am pretty sure I have seen units gain despite not firing (so certainly no kills as well) or moving though. Just being in the core alone seems to give some experience, and may be the entire basis of the experience formula, but I heavily doubt it.

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp (Post 684235)

Its all making it very gamey why not just buy what you want & be done with it this has all been discused to death previously & as Germans you do not need to worry about gaining exp much till mid late war when your exp starts to drop.

I don't know, I think an elite PZIVB had a better chance of a kill in France or the USSR, than a veteran PZIVB, but maybe that's just me?

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Truth be known...
I didn't know 88ATG's were available in poland.
Flak 88's yes and they had some AP value but in 1939 the germans did not realize this and doubt the rounds they did have were as considered the "super weapon",as they were in africa after some improvments.

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22 (Post 684308)

If you really want to see it, telling me how to translate what I see on the 'load game list' screen would be helpful so I can find the file on the computer. I have looked for every single bit of data on my entire computer that shows on that screen, and nothing comes of these searches.

OK, Let's assume it shows you have this save game in save slot 11

Go to the

WinsSPWW2\Saved Games

folder and look for ..........

SpSv011.cmt
SpSv011.dat

Zip them up and post them

Don

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22 (Post 684301)

2. Interesting, as the screen looks the same compared to day battles, it did not occur to me that it might be a night mission, but rather a heavy storm with fog perhaps.

This game lacks even the most basic representation of meteorology and the day/night cycle which is a travesty. It is a travesty because this is a war strategy game. Since the time before Christ and even to this day nocturnal/diurnal values and meteorological conditions have played decisive roles in the outcome of a battle, nay even a war. WWII comes to mind.

All the end user sees is a cryptic number value (visibility) which doesn't even differentiate between meteorological conditions and simple nocturnal/diurnal values.

Bottom line weather and day/night is so importent it must be added to the game. By a picture on the tool bar or accessed by a button so as to not take up space or just a hotkey.

Even a simple text description would be sufficient, such as a brief weather report (a sentence or two) and time of day. I think a text description is not too much to ask.

The argument that this change would not actually effect gameplay and is therefore unnecessary is specious.

Game icons do not actually effect gameplay (symbols could be used instead) and yet they are a necessary component of SP.

Andrew

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

As far as weather, when I am designing I use the following charts to go about setting the visibility and preferences to simulate those conditions. For the Searching, Hitting and Rout/Rally settings you need to add this information to the scenario briefing as players need to manually set them to get the full effects;

WEATHER AND VISIBILITY

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Don or Andy,
How hard would it be to input day/night cycles and variable weather conditions into the game? This is just a question NOT A DEMAND OR COMPLAINT. That would make the game even more interesting than it already is....;)

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22 (Post 684313)

...the size of the force doesn't really matter, as the size of your force will always limit the size of the enemy...

Hadn't thought of this. Very valid point.

Quote:

...I had never thought a unit moving would make any difference, but you may be right.

I just tried searching for the thread that I read about moving units and experiences, but couldn't find it. Could be wrong, could be bad search.

Andrew,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramm

This is not meant as a rebuke, but an observation. (Curse the lack of non-verbal communication!) While your arguments are valid in that weather and night/day were and are important in combat, I don't know what you're looking to accomplish with this post. For one, Don and Andy have expressed many times the game is not a simulation, i.e. that it does not take everything into consideration. The coding for weather conditions alone would take more hours than any non-programer (myself included) would ever care to imagine. Then, coding for what kind of weather takes place when, where and how often would be another nightmare. For all intents and purposes, limiting visability and making the ground muddy or swampy, or snowy is perfectly adiquate for imagining poor weather conditions in this game. Don and Andy do not need the headache of coding spontanious random heavy artillary bombardment to simulate lightning, or a condition when all of a troops moral suddenly dropping 20 points to show that they are sick and tired of fighting in the rain. Please remember that any changes to the game require time on their part and just because we want it, doesn't mean it's easy for them, or even good for us. I would get really discouraged if the Russian Winter had the EXACT same effect on my troops as it did on the Germans. Yes, it would make the game realistic, but there is a reason that nobody likes to fight a real war.

Second, while I can see your desire to have some kind of indication as to what the weather is, I personally can live with making up my own explianation for why visability is 12. I sometimes change the visability to a low number saying to myself that I want to assault the enemy's position at twilight as apposed to noon. Again, every change takes Don and Andy's vaulable time.

My recommendation to getting over this unfortunate lack of weather and night and day? Use your imagination. Also, Double_Deuce has done some great work.

Re: Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

On the weather it does not realy mater what type it is as game cant model gunflashes starshells etc tend to regard anything under 30 hexes as inclement weather or night dusk dawn & like DD adjust settings though rally had not occured to me. With TI units adjusting becomes a bit of a problem usually just restrict search slightly.
The premise for the above & assume DDs is the same if visibility is set to say 10 hexes thats the max distance you can see for whatever reason. But poor weather or night means you can only see well to less than that vehicles will be visible at max range infantry perhaps half.
While it would be nice to have weather probably beyond the engine you would need wind to. Seeing firing into a rainstorm upwind would be a lot harder than downwind.