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Well, actually you are to blame your team for that because by letting you die they died themselves 100%. So, basically the game concept is fine, the problem is in who is called a vet and why. Also, team game and regular MP are two different things. A person may be a fantastic MP player and do very poor in a team game despite he is called a vet. That's quite usual.
And there're the opposite examples. I played some game with chrispedersen and, although it was rather long ago, I never thought he was a really good player. And he was not. But after having read the NaV forums of the chris' team I understood that he is a really good captain even if he is still not the uber-level player. I'm absolutely sure that people who played alongside him, learned a lot.
That's what it's all about. You just happened to play in the wrong team, believe me.

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Ano:

I had to read your post a couple times. There's a gramatical problem in the first sentence which had me misunderstanding it. I believe you mean that my team failed by letting me die. I agree.

My point was about using team games to learn to play Dominions. I'd break it down a couple more ways.

1) Team games don't stop noob ganking from my experience. I've played 3 team games and they aren't any better than FFA for that.

2) Big team games are brutally slow. Therefore, while you learn hopefully from good players you can learn a heck of a lot faster playing in smaller games. Blitzes, small team games, small FFA.

3) Your mileage may vary. Which is much like you say. ChrisP is incredibly dangerous in a team game because he's a tyrant :) So his team plays like one big player and doesn't make many mistakes. Guys on his team learned massively. No matter how good a captain is, if he can't afford time for lot's of coaching you might as well be playing on your own.

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Yes, that's what I meant. English is not my native language, so sorry for that.
Everything depends on a personality. Some people don't even need to play much to be terribly effective, the others will play for ages and learn nothing besides the basics. The examples are numerous and it is especially true for Dominions as a very complex game. So, personality is a key to everything.
When you join the team game, especially the one like Sept's, you need to understand what you want from it. Play for fun or learn? If you want to play for fun, then indeed it is even worse than a regular MP because it is slow, complex, leaves little place for improvisation etc. But if you want to learn, the first thing you need to do choose your captain. That's terrifically important, maybe more than anything.
Yes, and that is where you should learn. Good captain will explain each and every of his decisions in much detail and always leave an option to act alternatively if you're able to prove it's better. Is it tyranny? Well, maybe, to some extent. It resembles the army structure more and that's why it is efficient. The difference is that in the army you're not given explanations or place for alternative thoughts. Can you learn from it? I think yes.

Not only time, he should also have the wish to do it. Only then he can be called a good captain.

p.s. I'd suggest that the title of this thread is renamed. It makes me nervous :) :)

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not renamed, more like closed, because there is already another thread for the actual game itself... this thread started as another advertisement of Sept for his game, and than, as always, he deflected by changing the subject to something not directly NaVII related...

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Some interesting discussion on team games, which could benefit readers.

I think basically you get out of team games what you put in. As with anything. I know I enjoy communicating and working with others.

Maerlande, I'm sorry you didn't have the experience you hoped for in that particular game. I've played in FFA games as well and didn't get all that I hoped for, but it hasn't stopped me from joining them.

I don't know if DrP, targeted individual noobs on a team or there were other factors involved. I would wager though that, the confluence of events that led to the early attacks by Neifelheim probably had more to do with proximity, early conflicts, diplomacy, nation strengths and weaknesses, and so forth. Generally though, you stand a better chance with allies than without them.

In a game with more experienced players (or even players of the same experience level, you know the saying two heads are better than one) on your team you can learn from them and the enemy at the same time (this was one the things people asked for after the NvV series (to play with vets on the same team), whereas facing just enemies in non-diplomacy games you really only learn from what you can discern of the enemy while your busy removing his axe from your skull. :)

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Sept, he cannot read this. He is banned. If you want him, you have to go to the other forum.

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Actually I think he can read it. We tend to have 5 times as many unregistered lurkers as registered people so Im pretty sure its viewable even if he cant respond

Of course, whether or not he wants to might be a different matter

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He is IP banned actually. (His words).

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Yeah, maerlande is IP banned, so no amount of account juggling is going to let him respond. Nor should you probably be saying such a thing. That sounds naughty of you.



And for the record we never targeted noobs specifically on our team. It just was advantageous for us to hit who we did at the time. We needed to clear kailasa off of caelum, so that's who got hit. And yomi was in dire straights for most of the game.

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Sorry. How was I supposed to know?