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Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Another exception is that mines ignore shields.

[ December 03, 2002, 20:31: Message edited by: capnq ]

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Back about Organic Armor. Is there a really big difference between pre-regenerating & regenerating after the battle?
I believe there is, in case OA is _not_ on your ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Quote:

OA is still extremely cheap, costs organics, and also results in faster build times compared to ships with shields. More importantly, they don't have to worry about shield-damaging weapons, which really cut even high-tech phased shields down to size. Also, if you compare the organic regen rate and cost to say, a shield regenerator in the standard game, it is a big advantage. Especially if you pile lots of OA on a large ship, and then give it a movement strategy such as Max Range, which in a fleet action will tend to have it retreat every other turn (or more if you use long-reload weapons), giving it time to heal while other ships fight in the front lines.

PvK, you have a lot of very good points there, but I tend to agree with the Baron on this one. Once you get into battles with more than 5 ships, a targeted ship tends to go Foof! before it ever gets a chance to retreat. If it does survive the round, it will not retreat because it will certainly not have a single engine left. This said, the build up of repair (two turns tops) will at least allow some lucky first round survivors to repair enough to retreat, and perhaps even repair enough to get off one Last shot.

With the new rules, I think I'd only put on organic armor because it isn't made of minerals, which would increase build time (as you've pointed out). Hardly worth picking the Organic trait for this, I'd rather go with Hardy Industrialists.

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

the major point why one might not want to choose the racial armors as that two other armors - scattering and stealth - have extra bonuses, as well as a good +25% to defensive bonus, which is A_LOT.

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Quote:

Originally posted by Taera:
the major point why one might not want to choose the racial armors as that two other armors - scattering and stealth - have extra bonuses, as well as a good +25% to defensive bonus, which is A_LOT.

It's 15 bonus to them each, and so thus totals up to 30% bonus. Although that 30% isn't worth anything without an ECM to back it up. Also, racial armors are really, really tough and really help out your ship in combat.

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Quote:

Originally posted by jimbob:
PvK, you have a lot of very good points there, but I tend to agree with the Baron on this one. Once you get into battles with more than 5 ships, a targeted ship tends to go Foof! before it ever gets a chance to retreat. If it does survive the round, it will not retreat because it will certainly not have a single engine left. This said, the build up of repair (two turns tops) will at least allow some lucky first round survivors to repair enough to retreat, and perhaps even repair enough to get off one Last shot.
[/QB]

Well it does depend on your enemy's battle tactics. If they are concentrating fire to finish off crippled ships, there are some disadvantages to that, compared to other firing priorities. I have watched many large-scale battles and yes, many ships get caught and destroyed in one turn. Nonetheless, organic armor takes a lot of damage, and often ships are pounded and do get to back away and are not hit again for a turn or more.

I actually haven't run into many enemies using Engine-Damaging weapons, but I'm also not convinced that ships using OA can't just as easily have shields and/or supply storage on them as standard ships.

It seems to me that OA would still be useful even without regenerating ability, mainly because it is relatively strong, immune to shield damaging weapons, and costs very little.

Quote:

With the new rules, I think I'd only put on organic armor because it isn't made of minerals, which would increase build time (as you've pointed out). Hardly worth picking the Organic trait for this, I'd rather go with Hardy Industrialists.

Build time and maintenance cost, because OA is so cheap. Choosing it is a matter of style, and I don't usually go organic, but the times that I have, have all been quite successful.

As for pre-healing, it's extremely powerful, limited only by the concentrated fire of large fleet battles, and makes zero sense.

PvK

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Almost all of the ships I build have an ID on them....

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Quote:

Originally posted by Taera:
CA is more useful against most other weapons.

Yep, but most of the players like to use PPB...

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

MB: and then? PPB still doesnt pass phased shields.

Re: thinking: OA vs CA

Shield Disruptors. Knock out the generators, and CA becomes only slightly better than standard armor.