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Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
Now that I really think about it I am not sure that tugs will work the way they should, there is actually no option or use for tugs in the SE4G setting that I am aware of. Maybe one of the more experienced players could shed some light on this.
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What do you want a "tug" to do? Is it related to a tugboat that moves large ships through a harbor?
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Yes, I'm curious about this aswell. I am not aware of "Tugs" in Starfire. I only have mostly 3rdE rules, was this a new rule added later? Or are these ships equiped with Tractor Beams?
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To be 'up to date' in 3rd Ed Rules you need the UTM, 3rdR rulebook, ISF rulebook and SM#2. The 3rdR URM (Unified Rules Manual) is undergoing construction, refinement and review at this moment.The URM is going to consolidate and update all the rules into one book. Hopefully we will get it out here in the next month or two. All of these things can be gotten from the SDS website. Dan K |
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Will the UTR include the rules from ISF? My ISF is copyrighted 1993 with credits going to David [Weber] himself! Needless to say it is an old and cherished “Artifact” in my collection; I even have a 2nd Edition (?) SF rule book with the same copy right info, I bought them both on the same day. Point is I need a replacement for the ISF book.
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Where is this "SDS" website? Can this new material be purchases Online? I have been out of the "Starfire" gaming loop for a loooooonnnng time now (since 96-97) and would like too know.
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Check out the new thread Magnum.
"OT - Too Cool" Follow the links that appear after the intro. |
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Heya.
Looks like the project's doing fairly well. |
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Sorry been occupied elsewhere. Black holes are a @#$ch to escape!!!!
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So after a long week of busting my butt at school and home with the kids I finally get some down time. It goes without saying that I have spent that time to work on the Mod, so here is the status:
Component Enhancement File: 100% Component File: 100% (One known issue, waiting on Dan K) Tech Area File: 100% Vehicle Size File: 100% Facility File: 100% Culture File: On Hold Intelligence File: On Hold All AI Files: On Hold Edited In: Status Update as of 8-Feb-04. That leaves Culture File and Facilities File, I will work on the facilities file next and maybe work on the culture file, but for that I will most likely have to task out for help (Dan K and Mr Floppy), the point is that it is no big deal to me for the beta testing. If I did not mention a file it is because I did not feel it needed any work right now. Speaking of Beta Testing here is the list of people that have contacted me, if your name is not on the list and you feel it should be than send me a private message or email me. Dan K Mike (Not a Forum Member) Mr Floppy (should the “r” in mister be caps, do you have a preference?) CLC Taxes are done, more school reading and one assignment, I think Friday the 13th will be a good release day; anyhow I was never one for superstition (where the heck did I put that salt?). [ February 09, 2004, 02:00: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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Wow, what a feeling it was to actually see this Mod start. There was the inevitable flaw or two that had to be corrected but it was truly great. It is actually ready for beta testing now, but I will hold on to it until the 13th anyway. This will give me a chance to knock out some of the bigger bugs. One that I found is in the Ic. I can not figure out a way to make the Ic work and keep the I. In light of this I will have to drop the Ic out. Sorry to say it, however I knew when I started this project that there was bound to be flaws that would require some give and take. Suggestions?
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Hey Shang, could you tell us what specifically makes using the Ic impossible too do in the mod? Is it because the AI can't understand why too put it on Civilian ships compared too Military?
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The (I) generates full power in combat but only about half system cruising speed, relative to its combat speed that is. The (Ic) generates a higher system cruising speed but provides no combat movement bonus. The problem I am having is in keeping the (Ic) from using the (I)’s combat bonus. If I put the combat bonus on the (I) than the larger ships do not get the correct combat movement so I have had to put it on the hull.
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Clc came over this morning to take a look at the Mod. In the process of checking it out we discovered a new bug. It seems that you can only have “x” amount of “items” attached to one tech area. Through the process of elimination I found that I could tie all component enhancements, vehicles, and facilities into having a “HTL” requirement for their development. But if I tried to tie any components (even one) into the “HTL” line it would not work. This apparently would not be a problem if you wanted to start out at HTL 1 and work your way up; in this case you can develop HTL2 etc just fine. But if you want to start at the “medium” or “high” technology at the start up screen than forget it, you start with HTL at level one instead of 18. I have contacted Malfador about this issue to see what Aaron has to say. I will keep you updated as I get word.
“Items” are anything from components to vehicles. |
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I could have deleted the below message but I do not like to hold back any info, I got it working and everything is back on track. It turns out that the colony component can not be tied into the HTL tech area line, once I dropped that out and made it a stand alone all started working again. I am having two new problems that I would like to shot down before the Beta goes out.
1) Sometimes the computer starts me on an “other-than-oxygen” world; I do not want that to happen. 2) No matter how I toy with the “combat movement” setting I can not seem to break speed 7. |
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Colony techs are selected in a special process that ignores start and raise levels. SE4 finds either the first or Last component that has the colony ability in the components file that matches your HW type and that also can be available based on racial areas of the tech reqs, and then assigns its tech reqs to you. You do not get any other levels of those tech reqs to start with. [ February 09, 2004, 18:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
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Thank you Fyron for the answer to question #1, it does not happen often enough and I tried to reproduce it but could not, I am sure that this is what is taken place.
About #2, they are working just fine, it turns out that when modding you should always make sure you have enough sleep and that you press the save button before testing the change. Also make sure that you have enough sleep. I will be back later tonight with the update on the Mod status, heck forget that, DanK sent me the info I needed and all major bugs that would prevent the testing of the Beta are done and gone. We have all green lights; let the countdown begin…“T minus 4”. |
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All is still a green to go for the 13th. Growltigger had helped me to resolve the PDC issue but I had forgotten to Mod them in, that was a quick fix and they are now there. I could not think of a way to create the PDC hostile\desolate and extreme so I left them out. Also there may be an issue with the PDC’s themselves, but we can resolve that when the beta is tested. I am sure there will be other issues that will need to be addressed but then it is a beta. Make sure that you are patched with the “se4goldpatch3.exe”, you can get it at the below link, just click on "patch download".
http://www.malfador.com/se4.html T minus 3 and counting. [ February 10, 2004, 14:09: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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Errr what is an uber colada? I assume it is like a turbo shandy which it basically the liquid equivalent of being whacked round the head with a half brick wrapped in a sock
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Step 1) Mix a Pina Colada.
Step 2) Pour it into a clean pLastic 4 gallon pail. Step 3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 until the pail is full. Step 4) Drink the pail. Step 5) Mod. Step 6) Profit! |
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So far so good, I have run into one or two small issues dealing with components but so far all that called for was changing a number to the correct value. There is an issue with play balance and the shipyards, but again this is something that I feel should be addressed by all of us.
On another note I have decided to go to Home Depot and buy one of those 10 galleon orange buckets. With it I will try to make a Mega Uber-Colada. Why do I feel like a power ranger? Missile damage will need to be looked at for balance. [ February 11, 2004, 03:55: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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Mr Wubbles, sounds positive.
I have re-read a bit more of my starfire rulebook (do you know, I managed to find my first edition rulebook!! I wonder if that is worth anything on Ebay!). Questions as follows: 1) have you managed to duplicate shear planes? although I beleive the effect of tractor beams in SEIVG is of less than in Stafire cannon; 2) what have you done on overload dampeners? 3) how on earth have you dealt with XO racks? 4) what are force beams, and what are energy beams? |
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1) Unfortunately there is no way to duplicate shear planes in SE4G, and since the tractor effect in SE4G is instantaneous a shear plane would not actually work.
2) Overload dampeners: I am pleased to report are in the Mod, I think that once you see it you will understand why I moded it the way I did. In other words it does not follow the “cannon” effect perfectly, however this is one of the components that I managed to capture the “spirit” of, and very well at that. 3) XO Racks: Even if this Mod comes out of the Beta stage DOA I think my solution to the XO rack is a legacy that will live on. I don’t want to say too much about it here as I am still looking forward to the surprise factor. 4) Force beams and Energy Beams: I wanted to keep some of the SE4 flavor so that those uninitiated to StarFire would find a connection back to SE4G un-moded (other than the graphics and interface) and not feel to “alienated”. I have split most all beams up into two categories, energy stream weapons and energy pulse weapons. For a little preview of the Mod here is an excerpt from the Tech Area text: Energy Stream Weapons: The most powerful energy weapon family, but must smash shields and armor first. Energy Pulse Weapons: A weak family of energy weapons that can skip shields, armor, or both. I am sure this does not fully answer your questions; however you only have two days to wait now. I will be back later to give an update as to the status. I am still toying with the missile and interdiction field as they are not operating very well, more later have to run now… |
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Ooooh, you is a smug person aren't you Mr Wubbles - look forward to seeing if the Beta is as grand as you are promising - expectations are running rather high!
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The problem I ran into is when I brought two missile armed corvettes together to fight; the regenerative ability of the interdiction effect prevented either one from damaging the other. I have a possible solution but I will accept suggestions.
Keep those expectations up as I have a fairly good “hunch” that you will not be disappointed. Also keep in mind that this is a Beta Version, look for problems no matter how pleased you are. |
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Nah, I am just going to run off with the beta, play to it my enjoyment, make sarcastic remarks and bare my broad buttocks at the lot of you.
I am certainly not going to help. Hmmm, not sure what to suggest about the interdiction field regenerating. My immediate thought was to turn off the regeneration ability, but then that wont work if other weapons can knock down the shields attributed to the engines. Let me have a think. As to the sheer plane, not bothered that you havn't included it, as I dont think I ever designed a starfire ship that had it.... Brilliant |
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I have just had my first major fleet action, both sides involved were HTL1 and I must say that I was rather pleased. How many of you have tried to role play against yourself and with no less than 5 empires? It is the craziest thing I have ever done, I have role played in the past (D&D, etc) but this is something else. The new solution I implemented for the interdiction effect seems to be working good enough. I have unfortunately run across a new problem that I think will have to be accepted as a “necessary evil”. Even after all of the engines where blown out on one of the destroyers it still had combat movement. This is because I moded the combat movement onto the hull as it would not have worked on the engine. Comments, questions or concerns?
Yummy, buttocks! |
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Actually Dan it is doing that now, unfortunately there is a limitation to this effect. Namely that it does not apply to any “abilities”. To give the ships their extra speed in combat but keep there cruising speed down I had to add in the “combat movement” “ability”. As the engines are lost the ships are loosing speed, but this is only to the extent of the natural speed (the non “ability” speed) provided by the engines. Let me give you an example (not from the mod).
You have a ship with 6 engines and the hull of this ship has the ability “combat speed” set at 2. Out of combat the ship will move at speed 6 (assuming 1 engine per movement point). In combat it will move at speed 5. Formula: Out of combat: 6 engines at 1 point each = 6 movement points. In combat: 6 engines at 1 point each = 6/2 (all non-combat movement is halved) = 3 + 2 combat movement = 5. So when all engines are destroyed if the combat movement is added to the engines the ship stops. If however, as is the case here, if the combat movement is added to the hulls the ships keep moving but at a reduced speed as it is no longer getting the first portion of the In Combat formula: As above: In combat: 0 engines (all destroyed) at 1 point each = 0/2 = 0 + 2 combat movement =2 Did I just confuse you? The upside to this is that a ship with one or more working engines can out run a ship with no engines even though the ship without engines can still move, and once combat is done the ship is “dead in the waters”, you will not be flying it home for repairs. The downside to this is that you still can move and thus ramming takes on a new light. I could reduce or even eliminate ramming damage to offset this, if I do reduce/eliminate the Sr will still work as it does damage on top of any caused by the ramming attack. |
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You could build the combat movement bonus into the engines. It would not be reduced until all engines are out, but it would prevent ships from being able to move once their engines are down. Of course this leads to the problem that it can not be tied to ship size. So, you can add a special engine with nominal strategic move and the combat movement bonus, and make it really big. Then use scale mounts for each hull size to get it to be the appropriate size for each hull. It would take up a bit more space on each larger hull, thus simulating a reduced effectiveness on larger, more massive hulls.
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I could overcome this by making multi-class engines. For example:
A class 1 engine would only work on the EX and ES A class 2 would only work on the FG and DS Something along those lines, I would have to pull out the UTM 1.1 to see how it would actually divide up; but you can get the jest of the idea from the above. Should we take a vote? A) Play test Beta as engines are now, knowing the below problem. B) Create (for lack of a better term) “Multi-Classed Engines” and Beta test them. I will not be voting on this one, I can do either before Friday, heck one is already done! I posted this after Fyron, but it is basically the same principal that he is talking about. Edited in: There is no such setting as a negative “combat movement” bonus. If we go with option B above than we will have to accept that freighters can move at the speed of warships in combat or I can reintroduce the commercial engine, however we will NOT need multi-class Versions of it. No one said this would be easy or perfect. Thus I will introduce part 2 of the vote. If you choose B above than do you want to: 1) Accept warship speed on freighters in combat. 2) Re-introduce the Commercial engine (Ic). [ February 11, 2004, 20:31: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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Actually thinking about the engines being blown and the continued movement caused me to regress to high school physics. No friction in space, ergo no slowing down. So the engine problem is not a real concern. Not blowing the crap out of the other guy is. Must fix so death can be dealt. I say go with what we have and fix problems as they occur. Hey that is why it is a Beta Test.
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Also clc as to your point of “going with what we have got” that is true, except when all of you beta testers where at work today I was here creating an alternate Mod using the B2 selection below. It came out to 7 Versions of the Military engine and 1 Version of the commercial engine. As a fact I am play testing the alternate B2 Version right now and I must say that I am very happy with it. So it is up to you beta testers which you would like to try out. |
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Wubbles: as for the engines, I can hang with option B and add in Ic. It be closer to cannon.
clc: The Starfire physics of the engines is basically this: They create a field that spreads the inertia of the ship over the surface of this feild. This inertia is so spread out that it becomes nearly meaningless as it is spread over many miles. When the drive field 'collapses' the inertia of the object is immediately imparted back to the ship in an instant. Dan K |
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Ok now that all of you have patched to the latest Version of SE4G it is time to patch some more, with the Image Mod! Just follow the below link and there you will see a list of sites to download at, I suggest selecting the link to “Imperator Fyron’s Mirror #2”. It is almost always reported as being “offline” but do not let this fool you. Once you click on it you will want to download, unzip, and copy and paste into your *root* SE4G directory the following files:
Facilitiespack11 ====== Full Planetpack9 =========== Full Eventpack2 ============ Full Componentpack22 ======= Full Combatpack10 ========== Full You could get the patch only file and save some download time, but I would play it safe. Finally I can send you the Mod in one of two forms: zip or rar, just IM or PM me with your choice, once contacted I will start the final list and add your name with your preference, if your name is not on the list you can still add yourself but it may not be in time to meet the Friday release. http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html *Root* Unless you changed it at installation your root SE4G directory should be: C:\Program Files\Shrapnel Games\Malfador Machinations\Space Empires IV Gold\Pictures\??? Where ??? indicates the corresponding folder, answer “yes to all” when asked if you want to over right, copy over, oh you will know what I mean when you see it. So I have 1 vote for B2… All green still counting… T minus 2 If I have not said it enough let me say it again, thanks to all of you for your work, input, and patience; especially you Floppy and Dan K too. |
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But Fyron, what if you still want too keep an unmodded SE4G on your system? I plan too have unmodded and the Starfire Mod both on my system and interchange from each one if I wish by changing the .exe path.
Hey Shang, I vote for Plan A because you have already started it that way, and I don't mind ships still having some combat movement speed (I would consider it as auilary Feild Generators kicking in too componsate for the main ones being destroyed) which would allow you some limited movement abilities for a short while (at least for a few hours for combat purposes). I was thinking about voting for Plan B, but with all those engines for each hull size, that might be difficult too code into the AI files effectively. |
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My post was only about installing the Image Mod, not SF mod. Shang was directing you to install the images into the stock folders already, but he assumed that they would have a path info built in and get extracted to the appropriate folders automatically, which is not the case.
The Image Mod (not really a mod) does not replace any stock images. It just adds (tons) of new ones. You will still be able to play unmodded SE4 just fine, even in multiplayer, with the Image Mod installed, and there will be no difference what so ever. The point of placing the Image Mod into the stock picture folders is so that you do not have to have more than one copy of the images if you use two or more mods that use the Image Mod (most mods use it these days). [ February 12, 2004, 07:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
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Actually Fyron I was not saying to download and unzip into the root directory, thus I said to “download, unzip, and copy and paste INTO your root directory” notice the commas. Why would I ask someone to copy and paste something from a directory back to itself? Then below that I go on to explain the path and that ??? indicates the corresponding directory, what I did not say and what does not need said was that you would want to put the combat pack into the combat folder etc.
Magnum: Do not worry about adding this [the Image Mod] into your base SE4G game, it does not change any of the play factors; it only adds more pictures that other mods may call for. Otherwise you could get a nasty little error message. So in essence your SE4G game will still be unmoded. Does this mean you have had a change of heart and want to beta test? I thought that you were busy… it isn’t too late I just need your file preference [*.zip or *.rar]. *raspy voice* “Magnum…You are my son…Join me.” Wasn’t that how it goes, it has been a long time since I watched it. So moving on, do not worry about the AI aspect although I am glad that someone brought it up. The AI will always check for mounts as that is hard coded into the game, they should not have a problem using the engines. Edit In: Two more things: 1) The *.zip file is looking about 1.19 MB in size, the *.rar file is about1.02 MB. 2) Magnum: considering the work you have volunteered to do for this mod I think that more than entitles you to a copy of the Beta without feeling the need to actually “test” it, but I would still need your file preference. [ February 12, 2004, 13:10: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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Beta Testers who have checked in:
Dan K = File format “StarFireMod.rar” |
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Hey Shang, I'm honored that you would really like me too be a part of the Beta test crew. But again, I must decline because I'm putting my full concentration the ship sets (which is fairly time consuming) and I have other projects that I need too take care of too.
I still vote for option A on this, but option B is not bad etheir. I'm glad that you can code in the AI too understand option B. |
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Here we are; I must admit that I am somewhat nervous. I should also admit that I am prepared for the worst, that this Mod sucks and should be shot and dragged around the forum to be laughed at. Ok, all of my concerns aside here it goes, as they say Last call for alcohol:
Dan K = StarFireMod.rar Clc = ??? GrowlTigger = ??? Mike (not Forum) = StarFireMod.rar T minus 1 [ February 13, 2004, 02:53: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ] |
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