Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

/me vote for modding tools of course.

What do we need?
Unit editor, race(nation)editor, god(pretender) editor, hero editor.
All other editing tools are just +++ for us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 28, 2003, 15:42: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Wow, I'm kinda shocked with how vicious you guys are being with Nerflix. Sure he expressed his viewpoint a bit too strongly, but that's no reason to call the guy names. And I think he has made a positive contribution to these Boards - I rate him 4 stars

With regard to modding, when it comes to a saleable feature modding has a lot of pull - people love to tweak something which they can actually play - 'see their name in lights' syndrome. So I think it may increase the desirability of the game to most people.

Nonetheless I would prefer not to see it happen. Not because I don't like elves, orcs, etc., but because about 0.1% of mods are worth downloading - I think modding is mainly itching a different scratch from playing a good game, if that makes sense. In other words, the satisfaction and enjoyment from playing a good game is one thing, and the satisfaction from creating your own little world is another thing. What I'm saying is that it's pretty much an illusion that adding moddability will in any way enhance gameplay.

That, of course, doesn't mean modding is bad - I just hate playing a ton of crappy mods and would happily just play the carefully engineered and well-tested game that Dominions II will be.

Just my opinion - don't flame me just because you disagree.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

I strongly disagree with you. 0.1% of the mods are worth to download? You must be kidding. I play many mods for many games, I barely even play with the vanilla games. Mods are super. Yes, there are bad mods, so what? You won't play with bad mods. Who will?
The point behind modding is that you can design what you want to see and to play with, using the engine of the game. Simple as that. If the others will like your mod, its just a +++ to the community. Think about that.

As for Nerfix, he sounds like an idiot, I reckon. His opinion is ridicolous and nonsense about modding. 1 star for him. Ooops I already gave him 1 star a few days ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
14 persons used the voting system to rate Nerfix...Hes got 2 stars...I think at least 8 voted with 1 star? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 28, 2003, 15:53: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Have you played Dominions more than 2 times? Have you played it at all? I have dedicated my life to Dominions, i have played it for something like 2 years, and i knew immediatedly when i got the demo that this game was unique. I and my friends have our own webpage and Boards, and i have watched the progress of Dominions II from the beginning. I have spent countless nights thinking what will become of Dominions II.
Is it so horrible that someone actualy like this game the way it is, even with its "horrible", "ugly" GFx?
This game is literaly holy to me. I don't want to see it being destroyed, but my worst nigthmares are turning true.

Every damn passing day these Boards sicken me more and more, and that is because of you whining GFx worshipping Tolkien fanatics! I hate you all, i couldn't care less what you rate, i'm leaving these Boards NOW and i think i migth return if Dominions II will not trun out to be some beer and pretzel game!
Goodbye!

[ September 28, 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

WOW! Dominions 2. will be moddable? COOL! WOW! Imagine! Tolkien or Warhammer mods! I C.A.N.T W.A.I.T! I want Dominions II. now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dude, nothing will be destroyed. Can you tell us, that what the #$%^&*( are you talking about? You are not forced to download and play any mods, you...*insert bad words here*
I can't belive that this kid is so stupid.

As someone suggested, do not even load this thread, you are just making us mad and angry with your stupid replies.
Stpatrick - This is lot more than disagreement. Nerfix cannot tell us anything wrong about modding. 'He just don't like modding'. Shrugs....
Leave this god damned thread Nerfix, you are making no sense.

[ September 28, 2003, 16:07: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

UMMMM, Nerfix is a typical troublemaker. Ignore him.
1 star for him.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Ok, so maybe 0.1% is an exageration - but honestly something like 1% or 2%, in my experience. Of course there is an inversely proportional relationship between how good the original game/scenario is and how worthwhile the mods are - if the original NEEDS tweaking, then mods can be a really good thing. I suspect if people are no longer playing vanilla it's because vanilla needed something that a mod added. I definitely don't think that's the case with Dominions.

And Nerflix - I agree with you in being opposed to mods, but you are stating the case too strongly saying that having the ability to mod will ruin the game - it will still be possible to play "vanilla" Dominions and ignore the mod world.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, this is what he can't understand with his 70 IQ I guess.
As for the rest, you don't see the point behind modding as well. Mods aren't made only to fix the balance, the best mods are totally different from the original game. It is a GOOD thing.
If someone says that its bad, its sounds abnormal to me, sorry. Why? Because as someone mentioned, more diversity = more fun. Got it?

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

ok, so I don't want to get into a huge pointless argument here - I'm quite happy to agree to disagree, but here is maybe the key issue:

you say (or rather quote) more diversity = more fun, whereas I think while diversity can contribute to something being fun, it is in no way a sufficient condition to make something fun - much more important is careful design and balancing. Some of the best games of all time are incredibly simple - hardly any diversity at all. So I don't agree that more diversity necessarily equals more fun.

Honestly I think (without getting too philosophical on you all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) that valuing diversity so highly is one of the most foolish things about our postmodern culture - we value diversity more highly than it deserves - it is almost the sole criterion for determining worth. exhibit a: this whole discussion about modding.

However, such philosophical musing are somewhat irrelevant, because what it comes down to is Illwinter deciding whether or not they like the idea of modding. You want them to, I don't want them to, we'll see what they decide. I guess I'm willing to leave it there.

[ September 28, 2003, 16:46: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Okay guys time out.

Just because some folks mod the game doesn't mean it will be ruined. Most people play SE:IV plain vanilla and it has a thriving community. But if some folks want to tinker, why the friction. Letting people have it their way is what grows a community, not threatens it.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

I don't know....SE4's modding....some of the mods, i really like....

Dominions...I doubt I would ever really mess with any mods for it, cause the game itself is just so much what I have looked for in a fantasy tbs game.

Having said that, I don't think modding will ruin it...but, many of you are all pissed at Nerfix, calling him names, cause he doesn't want mods, and he may have called you names...

He doesn't want mods....you do....does that make you better? more superior? does that make him better? more superior? no...but I will say this, Nerfix has studied this game for quite some time...you can't trash that....illwinter respects him for his hard work and dedication to the game...you cannot trash that....

I think it shows your own foolishness to bash him...you are pointing out your own determination for modding, just as he is for no modding....

stupid arguement really....

(i do think that modding WILL add to the ppl wanting to buy the game. that could be a good thing, or a bad thing...will ppl want to buy the game for the game itself, or just so they can "change" things? sure sells are good....but what at what expense to the original "work of art"...ALSO, if Dominions is made primarily for MP, modding WILL make MP games a bit more tougher to play....think about it....)

[ September 28, 2003, 17:54: Message edited by: cpbeller ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

I disagree with the fact that modding can be an annoyance, because you find more often than not crappy mods.
Lets take the Paradox serie of game, starting with Europa Universalis, ending with Heart of Iron. There is only a few mods available, which asks for much work from several fans. If you are a bit serious, before trying a mod, you goes to the modding forum, and at least browse what is here. For exemple in HoI there is mainly 2 mods, which are Nighty Road to war, and Steel CORE mod. Within some minutes you should know which one fit you the best (I prefer Core btw!).

Or goes to the SE IV forum, to speak a bit about a Shrapnel game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . You'll find plenty of mod, AST, Proportion Mod, TDM mod, etc. This is really easy to get the one which will please you. For the content, reading a readme, or browsing the forum is sufficient. For the quality, browse again the forum, and you will rapidly see if the fans talk happily of the mod.

So ... the ones which are saying that mods are a pain in the rear because you always get crappy things ought to be a bit more involved in a the fan's community of the game they are playing, and they will soon knows how the game evolves, and by whom.

my 0.02 euros.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Amen to that.

Lads, lets make it simple. Some of you do not like modding. You wont download mods.
Some of us like modding. We will download mods, and play with them. Propably we will have long and nice conversations about them.
I dont think that anyone disrespect Nerfix. However his comments are very childish and ignorant. That is not very good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

On a final note: I think that mods are adding huge value to any games, just check out the moddable games and their communities...That is the best proof, that why modding is good.

[ September 28, 2003, 20:46: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

cpbeller - Nerfix doesn't doing anything, he is asking questions, and making some idiotic comments. He totally sounds like an ignorant kid, if you ask me. (I think many of you have noticed this.)
Personally I don't care, but he posted too much BS here. Enough is enough you know.
The problem is that he doesn't had a single valid point in this case, just for example..making absolutely no sense to me.
He made a fansite, so what? I can make a site like that in 1 hour. We all love this game, he cannot post BS without consequences.

[ September 28, 2003, 20:56: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Ok no more flaming please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
This thread is about suggestions and stuff. I think that we passed the 'I like the idea of modding and you dont' case....

If any of you have suggestions, that what modding tools we will need, just post them.
However I think that everyone will agree that first of all we need the unit/nation/pretender modding tool, or a proper database editor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All of what you're thinking of so far sounds good. IMHO, the most important thing isn't the tools, it's getting the relevant data out of the code and into external files (text files usually being easiest). Dedicated modders will figure out ways to put it all together, and some will have enough programming experience to write their own utilities for installation and mod-switching, etc. (although it's always preferable if the devs do this themselves, especially for MP purposes).

In fact, if the tools themselves are slightly 'user unfriendly', this can actually have a beneficial effect on the overall quality of mods... you won't have hordes of neophytes releasing untested mods that they whipped out in 10 minutes with an editor, you'll have a smaller number of intelligent, dedicated people who produce quality work. Of course, there's no need to make things difficult on purpose, but there's not really a burning need to produce a slick program for it either.

One of the few things that MOO3 did (almost) right was to externalize just about everything in Excel-based tables, saved as .txt files. This allows anybody with a text editor to make whatever changes they like to the data. In many cases the structure even supports extending the tables, or even creating new ones with the right format. They also had a structure where the default game files were stored in compressed folders, and the program would look for similar files in uncompressed subfolders, and over-ride the defaults if it found any. This allows for easy installation and removal of mods without over-writing the main game files (especially handy for MP). For examples of the kinds of mods that are possible in a system like that, you might check out MOO3Mods.com.

The problem is, this kind of open-ended modding is easiest to implement if it's part of the original design... having no knowledge of how you've set up the current game code, I have no idea how easy it would be to put it in now, or in a patch.

As for which specific items to put in first, my personal preference is for a system that allows you to not only tweak stats, but also to add completely new elements to the game (which also includes the ability to change pretty much everything about the existing ones). In other words: new units (basically the capability that's already there, plus the ability to assign units to be buildable by certain nations/independents); new nations (and new themes for these, as well as for the standard nations); new spells; new items; new special dominon effects (assuming these are treated separately from themes); the ability to remove standard elements (pretty trivial to accomplish once the rest is done); new graphics (this isn't my personal main area of concern, but it might be necessary for new units and nations), etc. That's more or less in (my own) order of importance.

Obviously, I don't expect that all of this will be trivial to implement (or necessarily even possible at this point), but you did ask for wish-lists... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

On the subject of whether to include 'moddability' or not in the first place, I think all the relevant arguments have already been made (and re-made, etc.). I will say that, from a publisher/developer point of view, modding only enhances the value of your product. It not only increases the initial appeal (it's a very nice thing to have on your list of features these days), but it greatly extends the lifespan of the product. Even well-designed programs benefit from the ability to be constantly refreshed by the input of new ideas (in fact, I'd say that they benefit even more than poorly-designed products that mods just can't save in the long run... I'll refrain from giving examples here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

From a player perspective, it's a win-win situation. If you're happy with the vanilla game, you can happily keep playing it as long as you like, and there's no need for you to even be aware that mods exist, secure in the knowledge that (for technical reasons) the vast majority of MP games will be played with the unmodded game anyway. If you have a hankering for a game with a different 'theme', but the same basic gameplay, then you can try out some mods, or build your own. The argument that the very existence of mods 'makes MP more difficult' is completely specious... it does no such thing. In fact, the opposite is true... the existence of MP makes modding more difficult, since odds are that the community as a whole will not want the same mod running, thus most MP games (at least those where you play large numbers of people, or total strangers) will have to be with the unmodded game. If there's a relatively simple means of installing mods, and of reverting to the default settings, then both needs are satisfied quite easily.

Sorry for the excessively long post, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart for a variety of reasons... I should point out though, that on the strength of what I've seen of Dom I, none of the above would be necessary for me to enjoy Dom II... but any of it would be more than welcome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Edit: I forgot to mention new Pretenders! Hopefully that was implied by the combination of new nations/new units... if not, then add them too... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ]

[ September 28, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Bard of Prey ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wish you guys would just drop it - in one breath you say you don't disrespect Nerflix, in the next you're calling him all kinds of names, disparaging his comments - I don't care whether you do or don't respect Nerflix or his comments, but I see no need to bash the guy.

to ask a question relevant to the thread: what are the top mods you would want to make, if Dom II becomes moddable - your own fantasy worlds, or stuff based on Tolkien, AD&D…other pseudo-historical nations?

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">very well put

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Aye well said Bard.
If my english would be good enough, I would post like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

What mods will we create? Well if we can edit units/nations/pretenders, there will be no limits.
Tolkien world, AD&D, Warhammer etc.
My personal favourite is Middle Earth of course.
The War of the Ring would be the best era for a mod. [Mordor, Isengard, Gondor, Lorien, Fangorn etc. for the nations.]

[ September 28, 2003, 22:09: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Hell yea! Tolkien's Middle Earth is the best!
Perhaps we should make a team to make the mod?
After we can mod of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wish you guys would just drop it - in one breath you say you don't disrespect Nerflix, in the next you're calling him all kinds of names, disparaging his comments - I don't care whether you do or don't respect Nerflix or his comments, but I see no need to bash the guy.

to ask a question relevant to the thread: what are the top mods you would want to make, if Dom II becomes moddable - your own fantasy worlds, or stuff based on Tolkien, AD&D…other pseudo-historical nations?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. There is no need to call other folks names to make a point. Everyone has stated their views on this issue, let's keep it to that, the issue at hand.

Thanks.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Okay, again, let's drop the attacks.

Either post with civility or accept the consequences. We are all adults here, if you have a complaint with a poaster take it to PM's or drop me a line.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh... you should catch me first thing in the morning before I've had my first cup of coffee... my english isn't great in those circumstances either... and I don't even have another language to fall back on... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All of these are good ideas. Personally, I've always wanted to do a Middle Earth mod featuring something other than the War of the Ring (which wasn't so much a war as an RPG-style adventure/quest... hard to replicate well in a strategy game)... maybe the Last Alliance, or the battle between the Valar and Morgoth. The Fall of Numenor could provide an interesting scenario as well... the possibilities are endless... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

What kinds of modding tools do you prefer (in order of importance). We can make a poll when we have a number of suggestions.

Tools for remaking nations seems popular and is probably not too difficult to implement.

Adding monsters is already possible, but only in scearios. Probably more interesting if combined with a nationmodder.

Other mods such as unit editing is more difficult to implement.

What good mods are there in other games. We will need to delve into this and might need some guidance.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We need the following tools, in my opinion:

Must have editors:
1. Nation editor
2. Unit editor
3. Mod tool to add/remove units for the nations
4. Pretender editor

The following editos arent necessary, but would be awesome to have:

1. Spell editor [Guess this would require scripting, but if someone can do it, why not?]
2. The ability to add/remove spells -> This could allow pure medieval mods for example
3. Interface editor -> To change the layout

If you want to see good mods, go to www.civfanatics.com for example. -> Lot of awesome mods there for civilzation games. Examples: Gouble your Pleasure, Fantasy Empires etc.
Or just check out the [local] Space Empires 4. mods. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 28, 2003, 12:50: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Indeed. I for one want to see a Tolkien mod first of all. I will help to make unit graphics for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Yes, we need that Tolkien mod/scenario. I want to kick some *** with the Uruk-Hai! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Don't worry, if we can mod, we will work on a LotR mod first of all, as I said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
We will need a good Middle Earth map, so post links, if you know about some. More detailed = better.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Larger = better too. Larger then 800x600 would be best.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

I have big maps of Middle Earth, or even Arda. And when I say big, I mean it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

My aim is to make a War of Beleriand scenario, but I will surely wait for an extension to the scripting language. Also, I wont have time to mod perfectly all units to fit in Tolkien theme, so if you can start a 'generic' Tolkien mod, then fine for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Check out this:

http://www.taylorcustom.com/localink...h03_a4_6up.pdf

This is perfect for map location names.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nice and detailed map.

Pocus - Your maps are 'Online maps'?
They can be found on the net?

[ September 29, 2003, 14:10: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

The same guy (Chris Taylor I think is his name) also has a [smaller] Version of the same map without names on his website. Plus which there's a link to a map based off his which is bigger, in colour (which of course would have to be tweaked [no plains/farmland distinction]) and looks very pretty. However, it does have names. Lots of them.

The first website is
http://www.taylorcustom.com/localink...mearthmap.html

and the link to the big coloured map is
http://www.ititches.com/middleearth/

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Ok but isn't this a bit early? I mean 1. the game isn't released at all. 2. the release of the modding tools are far far far away I guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I can't wait to play with the Tolkien mod! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL, yes......but its all kewl! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I love that color map, its very good.
Damn I want to kick some *** in Rohan! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 29, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nice and detailed map.

Pocus - Your maps are 'Online maps'?
They can be found on the net?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I made the Elric map which is on Illwinter site. It seems a small contribution, but as of today there is more script lines in it that the sum of all other maps published http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I is still played in pbem (turn 65 or so, many players remaining). The map is rather rich I would say... as Marignon thats the fourth consecutive turn that I cast a wish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL, yes......but its all kewl! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I love that color map, its very good.
Damn I want to kick some *** in Rohan! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Who cares? We can talk about it at least! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ... until we can start modding!
Still we can collect graphics for the units etc, and resize - paint them later on.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

It seems to me that one simple way to enable mods for Dom II would be to make the nation themes mods - thus the game would come with certain 'mods' and more could be added easily, whether by Illwinter or players. The making of a theme could involve as little as adding one or two units (and removing others), or could involve changing all the units to something completely different. The idea of designing your own theme also gives a balance between the purist who doesn't want to mess much if at all the game as it stands, and the person who would want to turn the game into something completely different.

Comments?

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Making themes sounds cool, I agree.
However modding is a bit different. Modding means, that you can design/add/delete/change lot of things, not just add a few.

That is why modding is big fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Well… I'm more talking about a structure for changing a lot of things than a particular level of change. As I see it there are three things you might want to change:

1> maps - add new maps, change existing maps, make scenarios, etc. - all about (at least in Dom I) changing the .map file and corresponding picture

2> monsters - similar deal. I don't know much about this, but I gather there's been talk about this and it's not impossible

which leaves
3> nations - which is what I am suggesting with having themes be structured as mods. Like I said before, this would allow for little change, or much change, depending on how much work you want to put in. For example, it would be totally possible to do a "Noldor" [for the unenlightened Noldor=a kind of elf from Tolkien] theme which would change every unit of a current nation to well, Noldor units. Similarly you could add a "Dunedain" theme to another nation etc.

It's been a long time since I've coded, but if I remember aright having a structure in place which defines what you can and can't change, so that you can interface between the game and the mod in a relatively clean way is really helpful.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

You really didn't read my first post very closely at all Mortifer. I hope the clarification clarifies.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Themes would be an interesting thing to play with. Even just the ability to add/subtract units and add some inspirational text would do a lot in that direction. Most themes in the game have additional effects, and those would take a lot more work to implement, but just being able to create and add/subtract units, choose "scale setting" prerequisites, and define some flavorful text for various events would do a lot, especially in sync with the power already available with map creation.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Making themes is not enough. We need the ability to mod the map, units, nations and gods.
With themes we cannot even make a Tolkien mod, just for example. Themes are only good for the existing nations. It is not enough.
Enough said.

[ September 30, 2003, 08:15: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

st.patrik - I think that is because of my bad english. So you are saying that making themes would be good, right? I agree with that, BUT that is not full modding.
Just like Stavros has said, modding means that we can edit/add/remove units/pretenders/monsters, we can make maps, we can design races/nations. This all together. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Mortifier: You said that "modding means that we can edit/add/remove units/pretenders/monsters, we can make maps, we can design races/nations."

We can, and could even in DOM 1, make new monsters. Same for maps. New monsters were harder to make, mainly because you needed two graphic files for them and it seems not many have artistic abilities. But while making a map, you can define almost anything.

And with themes, you can change the national troops. Even if Marignon is named Marignon, if the troops are the ones of Gondor, and the citadel is called Minas Tirith, and they are in war with Ermor who has Orcs, trolls, oliphaunts and what ever Sauron got under his forces... Is that not enough? Magic sites would then be about the only thing you could not customise. And the troops you are able to recruit from a given province.

So, modding themes is about everything you want that you don't yet have.

As said before, in a .map file, you can define almost anything. I remember doing my own .map-file while I only had demo, putting all kinds of interesting magic sites and items to my commanders and to my provinces. I was somewhat disappointed when I realised that I couldn't set my pretenders' magics over 19... I exploited the bug with which you could use astral gems to research paths over the level four that was normal limit in demo. In that game, I casted Wish for the first time. And second, and third, and fourth... It's enough if I say I wished for a Master smith, made him commander, empowered him in astral until he could cast wish and made him forge all the unique artifacts... But the map of Melnibone, made by Pocus, is much better example for the power you have when making a map.

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

I wonder who you are Endoperez? Bob Perez of the newsgroup?

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Well, whatever, if we can do those [edit/add/remove units, pretenders, nations and monsters [we can make maps already]] we are all set to make wonderful mods. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 30, 2003, 13:10: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Ok I don't get it. IF we can make themes, that means that we can edit everything? I mean we can redesign the nations(races), add 'nation units', monsters, change the pretenders(gods) etc.?

If you call theme making - modding, than I am happy too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The 3 main things are: unit&nation&pretender editors. Don't forget about that.

[ September 30, 2003, 13:23: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

Re: Making mods for Dominions II. [Basic editing/modding discussion.]
 

Look at the themes there are:

Themes change the troops available and the starting sites. There are more complicated ones as well, but this would be enough to make a new nation.
With map editor, you can make any creature the pretender of any nation. You can also define the magic skills on any commander, up to 19 in every magic. And choose the sites of certain province, as well as it's name. You can also chooce two provinces to be neighbours, even if they have no common border. And, you can make provinces not neighbours, so that you can't pass over them. Think about too high mountains.

If there was a possibility to add/edit themes, it would be your 'nation editor',
You can choose pretenders with map editor that already exists,
And it is possible to make new monsters but there is no editor for that.
And it is possible, if the community is interested enough, to make a program for monster making. Although I don't think you will be able to edit existing units.
Have you read the mapedit and the monedit manuals? They come with the game and are in doc folder. They can also be dloaded from IW site. They are in pdf(the file type). From them you find all information you need to make monsters/ maps, although making maps in DOM II is quite a bit defferent compared to DOM 1.