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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Playing Order+3/Misfortune+3 in a common events PBEM right now. In the first 26 turns, Version 2.02, I had 2 bad events at the capital (brigands causing unrest - one was automatically cured by patrols, the other did cost me ~220 gold as I dropped the taxes to 0 to get rid of the problem), 1 bad event in a 2k province (again brigands), 1 mixed event (witch giving gems and cursing units - as I had no unit there it was actually good for me) and 1 good event (some extra gems). Turn 27, just before we patched, I had 1 more good event in a province in enemy dominion - castle popping out in an underwater province, the bug that was fixed in the new patch - doubly lucky! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif After the patch, I had one more good event (+50 gold, -20 unrest). So in 29 turns, the net result is: +1 castle worth 450 gold +9 gems -170 gold |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Nagot Gick Fel,
Please keep us posted. I would love to discover what happens to you in the remainder of the game. |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Are you open to bribery? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Keir |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Playing Order+3/Misfortune+3 in a common events PBEM right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We might need more than two turns under the new patch to get a good feel for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It also would be good to keep a seperate log of events for the two periods , pre patch, post patch. Combining the two undermines the basis for comparision. Normally I would sit down and play through the first 20 or so turns of half a dozen games but I must focus on my mod. If Order/Misfortune does prove to still be a reasonable option then we are going to hear no end of complaints about those floods. cheers Keir |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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One thing to note with S&A though, you get quite a few free gems from luck, which a magically powerful nation could use. But turmoil cuts into your CM recruiting income. Quote:
You get the standard event frequency, but most events are bad. But you get +21% income from those provinces that haven't been overrun by barbarians or vinemen, flooded, stricken with the plague etc. I don't know whether this is a worthwhile tradeoff for 0 points - but some themes have to take order, and now one theme has to take misfortune, so in at least those cases it might work out. Quote:
I don't think that order 3 luck 0 will necessarily become a standard. The benefits of order are potent but 120 nation points is a lot, especially if your nation needs lots of supplies, or high dominion strength, or fast research, or you are playing a theme that costs points, or your nation relies on sacred troops and needs a good blessing, or... there are always more good ways to spend nation points than there are nation points to spend on them. Temperature is a no-brainer for certain nations. Any other scale you have to think about, unless your theme requires a +3 setting. I like this. Quote:
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
I don't have any particularly conclusive tests atm, but it feels to me that there was a slight (very slight) increase in events in Order3/Misfortune3 but Order0, Luck 0 there are less events than prepatch. I don't know if one of the hidden adjustments was to lower the overall chance of events in order to compensate some for the balancing of the scales.
If I have time I'll do some 50 turn tests with the basic land types unless someone else gets to it before I can while I struggle with making a good looking pdf. [ January 15, 2004, 04:44: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
I guess this would affect gameplay if it was changed to a great degree.
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Playing Order+3/Misfortune+3 in a common events PBEM right now. In the first 26 turns, Version 2.02, I had 2 bad events at the capital (brigands causing unrest - one was automatically cured by patrols, the other did cost me ~220 gold as I dropped the taxes to 0 to get rid of the problem), 1 bad event in a 2k province (again brigands), 1 mixed event (witch giving gems and cursing units - as I had no unit there it was actually good for me) and 1 good event (some extra gems). Turn 27, just before we patched, I had 1 more good event in a province in enemy dominion - castle popping out in an underwater province, the bug that was fixed in the new patch - doubly lucky! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif After the patch, I had one more good event (+50 gold, -20 unrest). So in 29 turns, the net result is: +1 castle worth 450 gold +9 gems -170 gold </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wondered how you built "Hill Fortresses" underwater, you damn Pythium cheater, now I know... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif And you're damn lucky to get all this with Misf3, I didn't get so good event with Misf1, I did only get 2 Heroes (but lost one to a stray iny Xbow bolt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif PDF, aka Allgemeine Von Ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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[Edit: typo] [ January 15, 2004, 15:15: Message edited by: Nagot Gick Fel ] |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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However, Turmoil 3/Luck 3 and Order 3/Misfortune 3 should not really be compared in terms of gold produced alone. Turmoil 3 is for nations that are less gold-dependant. Luck 3 is a playing style (and does give you a nice boost, don't forget to play common events !). The Turmoil 3/ Luck 3 works well with some nations (Mictlan, Ulm, Ermor I suppose, ...). What was really sad pre-patch was that Order 3/Luck 3 was a useless combo. And that Order 3/Misfortune 3 cost nothing but had almost no downside (specially with rare events). No wonder it was taken by everybody ! And they never noticed they were losing some very nice events, awesome heroes, and so on. This seems to be fixed now. Not convinced ? Try it ! Take a nation that is not too gold dependant, for example Ulm. Take Turmoil 3 / Luck 3 and whatever other scale you feel good with. Play it. Expand. And look at the nice events. The bigger you grow, the more events. Free troops. Free castle. Free lab. Free gems. Free Gold. Free unrest reduction. Free magic sites. Free commanders. Free artifacts. Free permanent increase in taxes or in ressources. While you are at it, try casting crossbreeding. Watch the awesome results http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Remember you paid 0 design points for all thoses events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Discover your nice national heroes (OK, Ulm's heroes suck, try it with someone else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ). Hey, now that the scale are fixed, I believe I'll try a Order 3/ Luck 3 game. The gold AND the events ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, I'll have to make sacrifices elsewhere. |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Will the devs confirm whether there has been an overall reduction of the number of events on the "common" events setting as part of the scale changes in the 2.06 patch?
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed also. Playing T'ien Chi S&A w/ Turmoil-1/Luck-3, turn 40 and worse that has happened is "Very ill omen...". There has been also a few cases of robbed witches and whatnots but my troops seem to have been agile enough to dodge those curses. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif OTOH, I have received about *ten* mines (of silver and gold-varieties), couple of permanent tax-increases (was it 35gp?), about 1k gold and a s**tload of gems. There just seems to be goodies waiting to happen every turn. Although my Divine Emperor might have something to do with it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif - Humer |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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I will consider surrendering, but payment should be in hard real cash, not in gems ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif [ January 16, 2004, 13:36: Message edited by: PDF ] |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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I will consider surrendering, but payment should be in hard real cash, not in gems ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL!!! I think that of anyone mine is the most hopeless situation (Arco nonwithstanding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), yet I won't surrender, I'll just pump out a hoard of totem shielded Empoisoners and begin operation assassination on the world!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Bah and to think, if I'da had one more turn things with Machaka would be very very different http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Here is some bits a bobs on luck from another post based on testing a T'ien Ch'i BK mod which has seen my use luck turmoil scales lot.
---------------------- When I tried using a pretender other than the Lady of Fortune I got severly manhandled by luck - 1/5th pop emmigrated from capital t.9 1/5th from biggest other province 3 turns late, plague, trog all in the first 16 turns. I was also been attacked by two neighbours early (bad starting position) and had Kau Feng (PoD) feebleminded by a random arrow shot as he lurked in the back wearing rainbow armour. I decide to give up on this one when my prophet bought it even though militarily I was still putting up a fight and taking the war to the enemy - I just didn't have enough gold coming in and hadn't got a second castle even though I was using the wizard tower. The random events did not destroy me and there were good ones (total of 150gps in cash) but I end up with that feeling described by so many - I'm paying for maximum luck scales and I still get bad luck. I went back to LoF and things went much better. I have never had a significant bad event in my capital using LoF and while this is probably just luck she has become my lucky taliesmen. In fact I think the only reason I have a far kinder view of luck than most is using the Lady of Fortune. Have I just been really lucky with her or does she have an ability to stop bad events in the province she is in? As luck issues are making it hard to get a good take on this I'm going to start using a simple luck mod. Basically its Saber Cherries idea of +-13% luck/misfortune on quality of events with no other changes to scales. This means with luck3 you have a 89% chance of an event being good - I think it was 95% in dom1 so this is not that extreme compared to what many of us are used to playing with. ----------- I noticed Humers comments on good luck using the Jade Emperor with interest. All my good experiance with luck is using the Lady of Fortune. I know there are characters out there who can prevent bad events - can these two. You read their description and you would think so but Kristoffer didn't mention it when he gave us details on their luck modding effects. Still you should not have to take one of these two to have a good time with Luck as Tuatha don't even get them. If there is any desire for it I will post the +-13 luck mod. Its very easy to make. Seeing as there have been a number of problem with the mod tools I must sit down and run a mod which makes it impossible to get a bad event to make sure event modding is working. cheers Keir |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Changing misfortune percent seems to work. I tried #misfortune 20 to make sure and ran a 50 turn test with no bad events. Best event was 1500gps, 10 fire gems, and a magic item. With the misfortune percent high enough to guarantee any event was good you get a pretty good return at turmoil3.
Cheers Keir |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Part of the opposition will get killed, others will get fatigued and you will win that battle easier/with fewer losses to your valuables. Also, you will have done some good, as befits a God, because the life of your Militias will have been meaningful, if short. |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Folks have started another topic regarding luck/order and have asked the devs to comment. They already have in this thread.
So...I am bumping this thread to the top so that the folks who haven't read it may do so before asking the devs for further comment. |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Question about the positive money random events.
Been doing some luck vs. order revenue testing. Through 900+ province/turns (event frequency is proportional to # of provinces, correct?) of turmoil-1/luck3 .... I've gotten the +500 gold event MANY times, but never the +1000 gold or +1500 gold events. Do the latter require that one not take turmoil? I noticed that turmoil3 significantly increased the number of pop destroying events... is this true or just a sample artifact? In other words, turmoil doesn't affect the distribution, just the frequency as I currently understand it. (subject to event domain local contraints) Did this change in the patch? Rabe the Revenue Researcher |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
While I am a vey new player, I had a suggestion that might help this.
Instead of luck affecting the % that a given event will be good or bad, could you perhaps make it so that good luck and/or bad luck has a chance of simply negating an event of the other type? E.g., Luck-1 30% chance of negating a bad event at the province Luck-2 60% chance Luck-3 90% chance Misfortune-1 30% chance of negating a good event at the province Misfortune-2 60% chance Misfortune-3 90% chance This would have the overall effect of reducing the number of events, as well as tilting their frequency. As an example, let's say you have 20 potential events in a province over 20 turns. These events would have a 50/50 chance of being good or bad. Under this system, Luck-1 would give 10 good events and 7 bad events. Luck-2 would give 10 good events and 4 bad events. Luck-3 would give 10 good events and 1 bad event. By contrast, currently it would be Luck-1 would give 12 good events and 8 bad events. Luck-2 would give 14 good events and 6 bad events. Luck-3 would give 16 good events and 4 bad events. I think this would streamline things a little. My other idea would be to basically tie the scale effects tighter to the dominion rating. That is, Order would give +.75% income to a province per dominion point in that province, as an example. This would apply to the Luck scale in that you could juggle the numbers to the point that a province with Luck-3 Dominion-10 would have 100% good events. And one of the problems currently is the effect of population-destroying events in big (e.g., home) provinces, right? Anyway, just some ideas... Bayushi Tasogare |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Hmm . . . I rather like that idea!
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
That's a good point, Norfleet, and not one I had considered.
However, I would think that low dominion is 'its own reward'. If you choose a 3 Dominion and bad scales, and I have an 8 or 9 Dominion and good scales, this would have serious repercussions on the outcome of the game, I should think. Certainly, you would have better magic and therefore bless effects, but you're going to have to buy temples and/or do other things to spread your dominion, which raises your dominion, which raises the problem. If you don't, you run the very real risk of dying from dominion loss. Another rather obvious solution would be to invert the negative scales with regard to dominion. IOW, Order is the best at Dominion 10, and Turmoil is the worst (for you) at Dominion 1. Personally, I don't think this is as balanced as the original proposal, though, because then you are rewarded for increasing your dominion, which is something you're going to want to do anyway. As it is with the current proposal, you can have a really good Pretender/Bless effect _if_ you are willing to dance a razor's edge where Dominion is concerned. Anyway, just my thoughts. Bayushi Tasogare |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
Did anyone comment on the lack of +1000 or +1500 gold events with positive turmoil?
Can someone with authoritative info clarify? Thanks, Rabe the Professional Gambler |
Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
I have no authority whatsoever, but
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
I'm playing TienChi S&A with Turmoil +2/+3 and Luck +3, and I have gotten "1500gold, artifact and gems" more than once. In the current game, even 2 events within 10 turns.
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Re: Luck/Order scales after 2.06 Patch
You actually get gold events fairly regularly with S&A with a Lady of Fortune. It is almost enough to counter the crippling economy and terrible base units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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