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Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hah! Victory is mine! I knew I wasn't THAT senile! Can't be mods or Versions, because Skratti were there in both 2.02 and 2.06, and I don't have any mods affecting Skrattis. They were there even before I installed the one and only mod I use, the Caelum fix. |
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I've got plenty of Scratti in my Utgard theme. Which is good because otherwise I'd have a hard time casting Illwinter and Ice Devils http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
[ February 11, 2004, 21:41: Message edited by: Zen ] |
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The unit-by-nation sheets over at Sunray's library show Skratti as available in the Utgard theme.
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Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hah! Victory is mine! I knew I wasn't THAT senile! Can't be mods or Versions, because Skratti were there in both 2.02 and 2.06, and I don't have any mods affecting Skrattis. They were there even before I installed the one and only mod I use, the Caelum fix. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was refering to Arryn which is using a lot of mods IIRC. |
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The good news is that I have a W2 caster I didn't know I had. Damn. I've gone from turn 12 to 18 having water gem income, too. There's nothing quite like making a stupid foot-in-mouth mistake to draw the thread lurkers out in force. heh [ February 11, 2004, 21:45: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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Dont be too hard on you Arryn all those geants looks alike anyway, I usually took my scouts for my skratti http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
BTW perhaps you could do like at paradox forums and make a separate thread for comments about the AAR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [ February 11, 2004, 21:45: Message edited by: IKerensky ] |
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[ February 11, 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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I could *try* to have comments in a separate thread, but I seriously doubt people would listen. The type of players that play Dom are not the kind that play HoI or EU2. |
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just for the pleasure to haggle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
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This revelation that I have Skratti is serious enough that I've decide to redo turns 12+. I doubt it'll affect the outcome of my war with Pythium (I'll not say when the castle fell), but it changes how I would have made items and used gems after turn 12. Since no one but myself has seen what happened in turns 12-18 (since the turns haven't been written and posted yet), it won't matter to the AAR. Or not much anyway, other than my having some foreknowledge of what the Pythium pretender has in store for me.
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Unless your plan involves sending your scout-prophet and a horde of scouts to attack a province? |
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Well blessing or no, a Jotun scout is more capeable of taking lightly defended provinces in sneak attacks than are normal scouts...
Blessings for Jotun can do wonders for the units too, depending on what paths you have taken, though in the case of Scouts its a bit trickier to get them blessed while they are sneaking. Shroud of the battle saint would work, but probably better equipment to give them if you are serious about trying to use them as a sneak attack force. I'm not recomending using them for that function, but if you want that function they are better than indie scouts... |
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Aren't arguments great? |
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Aren't arguments great? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As I said before, the purpose of the AAR is for people to learn, myself included. And so I am. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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I forgot to reply about the Fluctuations of Temperature.
The scales of your Dominion are semi at the whim of the game. For no understandable reason they will fluxuate in temperature, order, production, growth, luck and magic (more than likely all of them including turmoil etc, but these are the only ones I really pay attention to). This is for all nations/themes. The only real exception to this rule seems to be when you choose Heart of Winter/Desert Sun, which holds fairly true to its cold/heat pushing effects. Pushing your Cold to 3, could potentially set your scales to your preference, or sometimes not, it really depends on whatever game variable is messing with your scales. There are however sites, that provide scale adjustments that can tweak with them so there is no real guarentee that they will stay where they are supposed to. But the main instance for choosing Cold 2 over 3, is the fact that (most of the time) your capital will remain in your Dominion temperature. Your capital, like your initial castle, has alot to do with the direction you go in the game and having a stable and consistant -5% income loss (0r -3% if you take growth 1) in the only real guarenteed large province you can in a game is a very real factor. Starting position plays alot into the game and the speed with which you expand, research and a variety of things. So if you found/find that Cold 3 works to your benefit more than your hamperment, I would take it. I personally don't like to count on assurances of randomness (like the fluxuating scale(s)). |
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For a more repelant example, tho', one could cite the "Ye New Galactic Bar & Grill & Phong's Head Cantina - After Hours" thread, which weighed in at a revolting 2983 Posts before its locking down. It was commonly refered to as naught but a rank-padding thread, and I must say that this accusation seems rather hard to dispute. The original "Ye Olde" etc. thread was bad enough, and it was only half as long... [Edit: typo] [ February 11, 2004, 23:26: Message edited by: E. Albright ] |
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<waving> Hey, Emil! Nice to see you around here!
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Sure getting cold 3 will hurt you alittle, the point is that it will almost certanly hurt others more than its hurting you. It will make the provinces turn cold faster as thats a function of the difference of your scales and the current scales. Also with growth 1 thats in my opinion the best replacement you get (albeit slowly) increased income from your provinces in a long game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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It doesn't turn provinces faster to cold by any degree, unless you choose Heart of Winter.
And the same problem comes up, where the only one you know is going to be Cold 2 (or 3) is your home province, you can still under that scale get just as many Cold 1's. It's just on how the sites are set and whatever impact is on the temperature scale. And if you happen to get a game without a heavy variance (it happens probably 50/50)and loss of gold income, poof, you are taking -3% income in your largest starting province as well as most of the provinces you control. Growth isn't even a 'long game' increase in income. The effect is so minute that it's not even worth mentioning the growth rate unless you are talking in the 100's of turns. The only reason in my mind to take growth is you need supply and have no access to items to supplement you, or you plan on some savage blood harvesting with heavy patrollers (which growth can even out some of) or you can't up another scale that would increase your income (order, production, luck). If you want to make sure you have your temperature scale without worrying, take Heart of Winter. It clears it up as well as spreads outside of your dominion. [ February 12, 2004, 00:26: Message edited by: Zen ] |
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Yes, so you have to either go with the chance that you will stabilize your economy for the 75% 3k-8k provinces with the 25% 10k+ as you take them with Cold 3, Growth 1 or give you an across the board -3% loss including your capital.
Or you can take Cold 2 and have 75% 3k-8k, 25% 10k+ provinces giving you 3% Less while your capital gives you 3% more. Like I said, it's all in your playstyle and what you are willing to accept as a variable. People don't take Misfortune 2 because of the chances of a variable happening, while others do. In this particular case the one thing almost guarenteed is that your capital will be losing -5% income (or -3% with Growth) which is a factor, like I said, for me as I place more value on initial effects that impact the game than longstanding ones. Especially with how important gold is. |
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<center><font size=1>Turn #12, Early Spring of Year 2
Spring water.</font></center> An early thaw allows travellers from afar to bring word from Ulm that Tulka the Black Lord, self-styled as the "world's most beloved hero" is the new false prophet of Ninhursag. It appears that his predecessor had his career cut short, by a head. Word also reaches us that someone grandiosely titled a "King Triumphant" speaks for the Machakan pretender Uzumna. I suppose that insects must make greater pretenses. Caelum makes good on it's declaration of war from this past summer and attacks my capital with a score of magically-summoned Black Hawks <font size=1 color=brown>(via Call of the Winds)</font>. The 25 Jotun militias of the local defense easily deal with them, but the battle frightens a number of influential locals (6 unrest), causing a minor drop in the flow of revenues and resources into the city. I vow to punish Caelum at my earliest convenience for their impudence. A more positive event is the unexpected harvest of a winter wheat crop in the Black Alps, bringing an extra 30 gold in taxes and quieting the remaining dissenters in the province. There is truth in happiness being be found in a full belly, be it humans and fresh bread, a giant with a haunch of venison, or a Wyrm and an ex-cavalry mount. The siege of Pythium enters its fifth month, as my avatar is met, in the wasteland named for the magical Well of All Waters, by a Garnet Priestess, a Garnet Sorceress, ten cowed and defenseless sacrificial young virgins, nineteen amazons, and a gryphon rider. Jorgun begins the battle at the rear of the field, which the gryphon promptly reaches, attempting to harrass him during his casting of preparatory spells. After casting his second spell (Body Ethereal), the wyrm takes a moment to deal with the pesky beast next to him and delivers a venomous bite, followed up by another bite that swallows the rider -- and mount -- whole. Tasty. Meanwhile, the foul sorceress sacrifices a half-dozen of the helpless girls in three futile attempts to inflict bleeding wounds on my avatar. Jorgun completes his final spell preparations, casting Astral Shield and Astral Weapon, in time to receive the advancing amazons. A half-dozen of the aggressive females strike at the wyrm only to become instantly paralyzed. Jorgun lashes out and eats two of the immobilized barbarianettes, which induce the rest to run for their lives. The wyrm calmly finishes off (eats) the other four snacksicles, as the fleeing amazons run past the virgin slaves, killing three of them in their panic. One poor, abused slave remains on the field, and my avatar mercifully ends her life -- in a single gulp. Jorgun adds another 7 kills and 12 trophies to his tally, and discovers the (level-0) magic site known as the Well of All Waters (which provides 3 water gems per month). Tahmar reaches the Alps with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen. The number of dissenters declines by one in Gwyrth and Bel. Atlantis conquers the Wailwind waters just offshore to the south of my capital. I will have to deal with this situation once I am rid of the Pythium pretender. The Seithkona Ambla joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the second rank of 'Construction' magics. <font size=1 color=brown>The 3 Nornas in the capital reduce the chances of bad events there by 15% each (3 checks). I have 1x 3-Astral, 1x 3-Death, and 1x 2-Nature Norna, which is a prefect split as far as I'm concerned.</font> My realm has: </font>
Gem income is: </font>
With the discovery of a water magic site, I command that a Jotun Skratti join my coven so that use can be made of the new magical resource. The sudden attack by Caelum fresh in my memory, I increase the provincial defense of the Iron Range by a half-dozen militia (to 7 total), and raise a half-score defenders at the newly-acquired Well of All Waters. These preparations drain the treasury of 332 coins. My prophet Grymis makes progress proselytizing to the inhabitants in the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium (dominion changes to -1), and carries on with his preaching. Tahmar, in the Alps with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen, continues on his way to join the encampment at Pythium. Ualgo takes command of the newly-recruited Jotuns at the castle and takes to the now oft-used route between Jotunheim and the Alps via Gwyrth. My scout Bdvar is rousted from his hibernation and sent into Helmshire. My avatar, still alone, makes his way towards Pythium by way of the Feral Woods to the south, which have revolted against Pythium's control and appear to be defended by a half-score Vine Men. <font size=1 color=brown>PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.</font> |
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Woo. Go Bdvar. I suppose the hapless, neglected Bdvar received his attention thanks to the discovery that you have Skrattis? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Well at least I know of three or four people from the Paradox forums that play both EU2 and Dom2. Granted it is a minority, but we are spreading the word. |
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I have played all 3 games listed in your sig, BTW. And yes, we are a -- growing -- minority. |
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Just wanted to chime in about Paradox, HoI, EU2 and Victoria besides playing Dom2 here, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
CharonJr PS: I really like the style of this AAR [ February 12, 2004, 07:40: Message edited by: CharonJr ] |
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Gerne ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
And I don't even want to think about what time it is in Houston right now, but about 3 am I would guess... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif CharonJr |
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I like Gift of Health for Jotun. Your troops Last longer than normal troops, if well cared for. The exp stars exponentially increase the value of a Jotun. Enchantment Five also yields Dispel, providing you with two strategies for countering Burden of Time.
Aikamun [ February 12, 2004, 17:00: Message edited by: Aikamun ] |
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Personally, I'm thinking Conjuration 5 looks like a good next target. With Construction 4 imminent, the acquisition of water gem income, and the recent rediscovery of Skrattis, it may be time to start producing those Clams to crank out the astrals. In my experience, you can never have too many Astrals: They are by far the most useful gem type in the game. Combine with the fact that there aren't all that many uses for water gems, as most of the water spells I like tend to be either inexpensive, or free combat spells. Most Water GEs, the really heavy sources of gem expenditure, are undesirable for casting or just not that impressive for a non-aquatic nation.
Gift of Health is a good thing to have, but with a puny 19 nature gems in your treasury and a mere 2 per turn, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Takes at least 200 gems to make a GE stick vs. the AI, and anything worth doing is worth doing with excessive force, as I always say. So clearly, a good starting target is Conj-5, for Acashic Record. Search those provinces good and proper. [ February 12, 2004, 18:33: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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Please bear in mind that I do this in addition to making clams with the water income. In the mid-to-late game I burn through quite a few astral gems summoning Angelic Hosts. I just love those move-3, fire-3, holy-4 avenging angels. I can never have too many. |
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Clams, on the other hand, assuming you didn't want Astrals at all, and only wanted water-to-water, would be a 20 turn investment, assuming you did nothing except build the clams, equip it, and alchemize the astrals produced into water gems at 2 for 1. If your primary concern is the water gems produced by the SK, the ROI on clams is better, and better still if you actually want those Astrals...and it looks like you do, as 3/turn is rather anemic. It gets better if those Astrals are then immediately used to search for more sites via Acashic, which will surely expand your gem income on all sides. As for the other uses of the Sea King, such as forging those boots of quickness, a Skratti can do that also. You needed the Skratti to summon the Sea King anyway. I personally think you're better off cranking out as many clams as income permits, rather than saving for the Sea King now. If you can summon a Sea King, you can start summoning trolls with your own Skrattis anyway. The Sea King can wait until the gems start pouring in. [ February 12, 2004, 19:23: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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PS - all my mages in my R'leyh game have clams, but just 1 each. That game has 3 sea kings thus far, and about a half-dozen on my fav angels. Plus many other, non-void, summons. Very magic-heavy, as you might expect from the squids. |
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PS to all: I need more feedback on what magic school you'd do next ... [ February 12, 2004, 20:01: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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Hmm.. conjuration, but forget the vine ogres. too little for the mage time.
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Personally I dont feel they are worth the time, your mage could be put to better use than summoning those. If you like em thats up to you tho http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.
PS. Im still a newbie too, so this might not be correct. |
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Certainly there are times when you have better things for your mages to do, but there are also times when having a few dozen vine ogres will be really useful. I doubt that many people base a game strategy solely around the creation of vine people (does anyone ever use the Master Druid?), but it can fill in the gaps where you need this kind of fodder, and you have the time and gems to spare on it. |
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I almost never send mages out site-searching. That's what I use Acashic for. And I think that I have enough mages to both support my research and my one army. At least for now. The mages supporting troops would be much more important if I had decent offensive spells. The biggest hit I take is the loss of half my meager N gem income. Thoughts? I need massive amounts of N gems to be able to make items and empower to get to the 5N (from 2N) I'll need for GoH. So Enchantment, for now, isn't a real good choice of study I think. There are many nice L6 construction items I'd like to have, but my gem income is a tad weak to support the amount of items I'd like to make. That pretty well narrows the field between Conjuration and Evocation ... |
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I'd go with Conjuration. As you yourself noted, your gem income remains presently anemic....this isn't going to improve much unless you start doing some more band-scanning for sites. At the rather poor mage-time ratios for vinecreature summonings, plus that it'll likely take you a turn or two to even get set up, then move all your newly summoned creatures to the front, it'll be at least a dozen turns or so before they start showing up in useful quantities. Better to work on getting the gem machine rolling, which will greatly expand your future options.
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<center><font size=1>Turn #13, Spring of Year 2
Woodland surprise.</font></center> This month there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands. While digging in a ravine in the Well of All Waters for more water gems, the prospectors find a single earth gem. My force at Pythium, in this sixth month of the siege, breach the walls of the citadel! In the Feral Woods, my avatar confronts a druid, nine Vine Men, and three Vine Ogres. Jorgun begins in the very rear, as has been his tactic for the past few months. <font size=1 color=brown>Defensive spell scripting is: Personal Luck, Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Resist Magic, and Astral Weapon. Followed by 'attack closest'.</font> The wyrm, an unrepentant carnivore and detesting such vegetarian fare, nonetheless eats all of the vine creatures, taking numerous hits (36 HPs worth) while dining, despite his tough physical and magical defenses. The druid, after casting a pair of defensive spells, fruitlessly attempts to put my avatar to sleep no less than five times. Stupidly stubborn, or just not very creative of him. After all his leafy creatures are no more, he flees the field, and goes into deep hiding in the woods, never to be seen again. Jorgun adds 12 kills and 17 trophies to his tally! He discovers a laboratory in the Feral Woods that was built by Pythium. This is very fortunate for me, as I will be able to equip my avatar for the coming castle-storming with a few magical items, built using my mages' recently-gained construction skills, without the delay entailed in ferrying items from Jotunheim. It will also permit me to use my avatar for magical research as the items are built by other mages. Tahmar arrives in Pythium with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen, while Bdvar reports from Helmshire the presence of some two-score fanatics (aka: modded militia), archers, and heavy footmen. The number of dissenters declines by one in the Iron Range, Gwyrth and Eribon, and by two in Bel and the Well of All Waters. The Skratti Tunne joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the third rank of 'Construction' magics, and report that they expect to achieve the much-desired fourth rank by next month. As this, fourth, level will be sufficient for my needs at present, I instruct that they should commence studies into 'Conjuration' magics immediately. <font size=1 color=brown>This Skratti has 2W, 1N, and 2B. I was hoping for 3W, but 1N is very nice.</font> My realm has: </font>
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I recruit a Seithkona to join my coven, as well as a Jotun spearman and four Jotun huskarls (w/spear). I increase the provincial defense of the Iron Range to ten Jotun militias (+3 increase), and raise one provincial defender in the Feral Woods. These preparations drain the treasury of 288 coins. My prophet Grymis has made no further progress proselytizing to the inhabitants of the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium this month, but continues his preaching as there remain a stubborn core of adherents to the snake faith. Tahmar, handing over his longdead troops to Urd, and the living ones to Bove, heads back to the Alps. Ualgo and his five Jotun bodyguards march from the Alps to join the camp at Pythium. From Helmshire, Bdvar next heads east into the plains of Tesifon (#58). My avatar remains in the lab within the Feral Woods, conducting magical research, and spreading his influence (dominion) into the area. The Seithkona Sigyn commences construction of a Horror Helm (for Jorgun), and all 5 of the death gems in the treasury are set aside for this task. <font size=1 color=brown>PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.</font> |
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Why not Hauspeux then? I don't see Acashac Record as really being worth its cost other than for a few provinces that you havn't gotten to. I'd suggest taking one (or more) N2 mages and hauspexing your provinces if you don't want to take one out on tour (need N3 for best results if you search by hand).
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