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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
I don't imagine Zap is checking here all that often. He did, after all, say he was publically getting out of DomII. I'll post a note to Esben.
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
You need to mail to Esben.
He's not reading the PM here anymore, nor the board. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
I emailed Esben this morning - the game is up and running again, ownership changed to me since Zap isn't around. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Good ^^
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
For the second time this game I have won a battle, but the computer doesn't give me the victory
earlier, I beat an AI random event, he fled, but on the main map, he still held the province and I lost my men/leaders now, I had a leader wind rided to another province, he killed most of the defenders, and the others fled, and yet the enemy still controls the province and my leader is nowhere to be found, (he has stealth as well). the main board shows a battle took place and I watched it 3 times, and the enemy definitely fled and it said they routed and my man was still persuing when the film ended, yet he is gone and they still have the province anyone have any ideas? is this a bug or am I missing something? Wyxard/Vanheim |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
It's battle incosistency. The question is - is everyone using same game Version?
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Different dom2 Version?
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Yeah. Different Versions can cause it.
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Unless I'm mistaken, the game is running on 2.14, so any of the older Versions would give the hallucinatory battle replays. Regarding Vanheim's problem with Wind Ride - perhaps it's being cast on a province without enemy commanders, or where the enemy commanders have stealth, Earth magic, etherealness, or large size. And - we have a new turn run! |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
please see thread "routing bug"
as this has happened again, on a much larger scale again against pythium In the message I lost 12 of 13 leaders(including 2 sea trolls, wraith lord, bane lord, Djinn, 4 high exp Vans, etc)(all full of magic items, rune smashers, incinerate rods, spell focus, etc) in the film I only lost 2 of 13. In the film he lost most of his leaders, including both Air Queens, most of his theugs, (8 of 13 theugs died in my initial blade wind alone) yet on the message it says he only lost 2 leaders IN THE ENTIRE BATTLE?!?!? and he kept the province. this is Way too much of a discrepancy in my opinion to be attributed to different Versions or different algorithm results. In the film I smashed him. It made the game unplayable for me to spend that much time and resources only to see them evaporate by what seems like a bug. Wyxard PS- My wind ride also failed 3 times against Pythium, not that I am implying he is cheating, rather that the bug may involve pythium |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
I was still running 2.12 as I didn't recieve an in game message or see one here that it had upgraded to 2.14
(above, when switched to 48 hours, he questions whether we upgraded) so I guess this could result in the discrepancy, although my question now is, if I had the correct Version, would I have won on the main computer as well? ie did I see a valid film of how it should have basically panned out since my computer had all the data concerning the armies on both sides and somehow with the different Versions, my armies data was sent to the host incorrectly, so it ran the battle with erroneous data on my army, or would the patch have swung the battle completely the other way? and I think former is probably correct, since it is hard to see how I could have won one by so much and lost the other by so much. so I guess I got screwed by not having the same Version running (since noone said anything) Wyxard |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
There was a number of Posts in this thread suggesting that your problem was the incorrect dominions Version, including mine on the 18th where I said I was pretty sure it was running 2.14, so it's not like you couldn't / shouldn't have known. But no - you still wouldn't have won, because the server calculates the battle results. What you would have seen was the actual way the battle had proceeded, so you could see exactly what happened and what led to the destruction of your army - spell targeting differences that might have led to huge quick changes in how many mages were left, a charm spell that nailed your best commander, etc. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Precisely. The replay was wrong. Even such changes as the burning pearl going from 100% to 50% fire resistance would ahve a fairly significant impact on battle outcomes for example.
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
i still think it was waaaay different, I can't see how a few changes from a patch could have completely changed a battle outcome that wasn't even close. if it was close, i could understand, but all the way one side to all the way the other??? this means it completely nerfed all my commanders, and made all his 100x stronger? unlikely,
more likely it disrupted the data set, so it calculated the battle using incorrect info for my army. my film used old Version data, and got a more realistic result. if the patch did change the strength of his theugs, and air queens, then it made them much to powerful. if you saw the film, and knew the armies, I hope you would agree, again, it wasn't even close, I slaughtered him, and didn't lose any leaders, or maybe a few to him losing all? if one item can change this result that much, it is unbalancing. it is my fault for not having the correct Version, but I beleive you said in the earlier post you "thought" we were playing the new patch. it would be nice to let everyone know officially in the game and out here in the forums if something like this changes, especially if, as you say, it makes this much difference in battles Wyxard |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
No, Wyxard. It doesn't even need an item or spell that changed from Version to Version for the replay to be completely, 100% different. Think of it in terms of a dice game, where what you saw was the result of one set of random dice rolls, instead of a different set of dice rolls. If a Charm spell was cast on one of your leaders on the first round, and one dice roll meant it was successful, and another dice roll meant it wasn't, that can _totally_ change the battle results, especially given somewhat retarded spell casting AI. For instance - I've seen one of my mages get charmed. Oops - one of my other mages is scripted to cast Blade Wind, and casts it on the charmed mage who is in the middle of my other mages. There goes 9 or so mages, just like that. If the charm spell hadn't been successful, the blade wind would have been cast elsewhere, and I wouldn't have lost 9 mages right away. Or think in terms of the Japanese game Pachinko. Hey - it's the exact same playing board, the same pins, the same size ball, but the result is completely different each time. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
While theoretically posible, this seeems highly unlikely and I believe players would not stand for this much "swing" in an individual battle, the game would be vertually unplayable. you are implying that the change meant that I went from killing 8 theug in the first blade wind to 2 total leaders in the entire battle? that would require me to have gone from normal roles killing half (as it statistically should be, given their lack of armor) to rolling like all 2's for every role for most of the battle.
while statistically possible, given the number of men/leaders, and number of roles, I should have killed a lot more. the Data had to be corrupted/altered. again, statistically, given enough time and monkeys, you can get a monkey to type the complete works of william shakespear, but this is not likeley, nor would people play a game relying on one to do so. if you imply that a "simple" change can alter a Major battle this much (it wasn't even close) then that would unbalance the game and make it unplayable for how could you plan offensives? with all these roles, by the law of averages, the battles should play out essentially the same with a few leaders/ men killed one way or the other, but a much stronger army will eventually win due to the numbers. Wyxard PS- speaking to some of the other players, they were/are also not aware that the game had been undated to 2.14, since the only reference said we may playing the new Version, but noone said officially (in game or forum) that we all should upgrade, so many like myself simply stayed with the old Version 2.12 |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
You weren't aware? What part of, "Unless I'm mistaken, the game is running on 2.14, so any of the older Versions would give the hallucinatory battle replays" didn't you understand? That was posted on the 18th, the same day you first started complaining about strange battle results. If nothing else, a reasonably bright person would have _tried_ looking at the battle results with Version 2.14 to see if it matched the actual outcome. And you don't think players would stand for that much swing? Guess what - obviously they do. You fought Pythium - I'm guessing you attacked him. The _VERY FIRST THING_ that would happen is his spells - soul slays, enslave minds, things that could have killed, charmed, or temporarily incapicitated some of your mages. That totally changes the results of the entire battle. It's just like when you have a squad of 30 troops with decent morale, and 10 bloody archers shoot, not killing any of them. 90% of the time the squad keeps going. 10% of the time, the squad routs without taking any casualties, completely changing the outcome of the battle. In Dungeons and Dragons terms, it's like 1st level characters attacking 10 goblins. If one of the goblins gets lucky and hits the 4 HP magic user with an arrow, the magic user goes unconscious, doesn't cast the sleep spell that would have knocked most or all of the goblins unconscious, and so a good part of the party dies. If the arrow missed or hit someone else, the sleep spell would have gone off and the battle would have been a smashing success. According to you this would be "too much swing" and players would never put up with such a game. Sheesh. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
first, I agree in small terms, such a squad of archers, or a 1st level man attacking a level 10 man, this is a simple swing of one event, but an entire battle is different, this is too much to accept, especially when his mages are low level, not casting the spells you mention above - tho I did have high level mages casting similar spells you mention above (see reference to monkeys above and discussion below)
as for reasonable bright person, I guess you are saying that a lot of the other players in the game are equally not bright, since others are still playing the old Version, since there was no ingame announcement. (and I was unaware that the different Versions resulting in the battle changes until after this whole discussion began, in the future, I would check that) please see copy of post to Routing Bug for more theories below ok... I upgraded and watched the battle with the new Version. the battle did come out as the message said, with the altered ending, BUT, that is because the orders were changed, (which I know because with the old Version, my orders were mostly carried out)and the die roles went very askew . the updated Version film had all my mass protected trolls, (30) just standing around, not even attacking, getting hit over and over with stellar castcades, and my iron dragons didn't even move for almost the entire battle, just sat there and did nothing, and my spell casting was comletely screwed up. (again, in the first Version, they all moved as ordered, so something deleted their orders) now I understand that the AI sometimes changes things, but in my Version most went as planned, in this Version a whole lot of leaders/men just sat around getting slaughtered, and very few of my scripted spells were cast. still, with 40 or so crossbow with flaming arrow, wind guide, relief, and arrow fend, I should have done a lot more damage than the "updated" Version showed. so... I believe the Dom 2 web site should say using different Versions may "incorrectly" change the results of a battle due to Data Alteration, resulting in a different film , not just that the film may be different. the new film definitely had something wrong with it - hence the completely unbelievable/unlikely/incorrect result Wyxard anyway, I am tired of this discussion, as you seem to be getting emotional and making personal attacks. If it really was just bad luck those times that a 90% victory with 100+ large creatures/men and 13 mostly high level leaders full of magic items went to a total loss, then so be it. but my personal opinion is that the different Versions of the game resulted in incorrect data and incorrect/impossible results, not just a different possbile result/film. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
after upgrading to 2.14 I watched the new film that correlates with the server results. The battle runs completely differently than my film using 2.12
Most of my commands are changed, unlike in the 2.12 Version where they are mostly carried out (with the normal variations of the AI), in the 2.14 Version, large Groups of men/trolls just stand around getting slaughtered by spells, not engaging, my iron dragons just sit and do nothing until attacked at the end, my spell casters don't do a whole lot,and when they do cast spells, the are mostly ineffective, essentially it looks like something is wrong, not just a different plausible variation running with different die roles. I can email the turn to anyone that wants to view it under both Versions, as there is a huge difference. my email is Wyxarddom2@yahoo.com I will also try and email the turn to Ilwinter Thanks for everyones input Wyxard |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Possible orders/scripts issued under 2.12 do not process properly on the 2.14 server? Sounds like SOMETHING is borked!
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Who can believe it? Cohen went AI!?!? |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Heheh, truly... the most powerful nation in the game goes AI, that sure throws a spanner in the works!
Yeash. A lot of AIs in the mix now. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
And Mark the @#$@#, er, Merciless, who just killed a game by staling for over 10 turns, has started staling in this game. May I suggest that we all, us few non-AI nations, attempt to wipe him out quickly? It's better than just one or two nations doing the gobbling, as happened in For Whom The Bell Tolls (where the player who gobbled Mark's nation started to hate the game and quit). Myself, I'm rather busy dealing with the remains of Cohen (who, I'd never thought I'd say this, at least had the good grace to go AI) and Ulm, who has wreaked the wrath of the oceans by attacking both R'lyeh and Atlantis at the same time, so I won't profit much therein. War on the game-defilers, I say!!!! |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Hmm I dont border with him, but I will do what I can...
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
There's only five of us left, and while no one has asked for it, I'm going to slow the game down for the holidays after today's turn - something like 96 or 120 hour QH. If there are objections I can set it back, but I figure it's good to make it easier for everyone to fit the game into their holiday schedule. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
No problems here!
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
I have no objection. Did we upgrade to the latest patch?
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Good question - not sure if Esben has patched the executable there. I can't think of anything critical in this latest patch that's game altering (like the one where you couldn't have 2 fever fetishes or 2 clams on the same person) though. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
OK, whatever Version you guys want to use is fine with me. I just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page. Vanheim quit when I was battling him due to replay inconsistency.
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Isn't a question of what we want to use - Esben hasn't upgraded to 2.15, at least not according to what the notes there say. So we're at 2.14, albeit I always recommend trying the other Version if you get a really strange battle result / playback. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
This game is basically over - I've asked Esben to kill and bury it. At this point, there's only two nations left not gone AI, and Mark the Merciful hasn't taken a turn as Jotunheim in 15 or 20 turns. Guess that makes my first huge scale game I've won ( World map; by the time everyone was demolished or quit (Atlantis was running a close second in some ways, using multiple Wish spells a turn for territory, but that only takes provinces that don't have fortresses, near as I can tell) I had the highest provinces, forts, gem income, and by far the highest dominion and army size), in my first game with R'lyeh. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Quote:
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Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Quote:
R'lyeh isn't usually a big blood nation - but finding a province with the Summoning Circle ( 60 blood bonus ) next to my capitol, and one with the Black Tower ( cheap D1B1 and D2B2 ) also nearby really helped. Using a Void Lurker pretender for great starting magic and bringing him back mobile via Twiceborn didn't hurt either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
I was wishing as much as 7 times a turn... As near as I can tell, Wishing for territory can convert to your ownership any province that does not contain enemy units. So it worked great the first few turns and then after that it was pretty much useless.
AND THEN! I pulled the biggest bonehead of them all. I really cannot beleive I did this... I wished for Armageddon. Naturally I assumed my beefy mages would be tough enough to survive and everyone else's mages would die in large numbers. taht turned out not to be the case, and I suddenly found that I had killed off my own wisher's, massacred my own clam/fetish/contract farms, and killed my very well equipped mages in large numbers. I have no idea how it affected the rest of you, but I was basically defenceless after that point... Heheh. Ouch. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Heh. Is that what happened? It didn't really affect me much; certainly none of my wishers died, and I didn't notice losing anyone else significant - not even my "normal" mages who all had 20 HPs because of GoH, nor my farms, most of which had 36 HPs. Had you wished for Power on your mages, the one that grants like +10 to each stat, and lots of extra HPs? First thing I ever do, just to protect the investment. Then Twiceborn after the first wish for magic power, so as long as they die in friendly territory they come back once. And, I was empowering pretty beefy mages to begin with - Golems, Ether Lords, Wight Mage (reborn) pretender, the Aboleth hero, a few Stargazers. So nothing under a base 25 or 27 HPs. Heh. Armageddoning yourself out of the running.... I had wondered what you'd done that you felt you'd thrown the game, couldn't think of anything much unless maybe you'd blown your astral gems & didn't have a big income. Good game - I'm pretty sure I was going to win against you (bigger gem income, bigger commanders (lots of GoHed / healed tartarians, ice devils, most of the archdevils, empowered Juggernauts, Abominations, and Tarrasque that could self-buff almost every major spell) but figured it'd be a long grind. |
Re: MP Game - Try Something New
Oh yeah I didnt think it likely I could beat you. Maybe i just should have summoned and endless stream of doom horrors... certainly would have made it tougher on you imagine!
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