Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Yes - what do you know? Not having played in our game, I'm wondering how you have a clue...

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

During Worldcon (beginning of September) I was watching Yvelina play that game.
Lately we have been talking about it, and she has been trying to figure out
how anyone would have such a surplus of gems as to use tons of them for
defeating her enchantments.

Now, if I were in her position, I would go look for these clams. But then
again, what do I know...

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I think the answer would be - the same way she has tons of gems to cast the enchantments in the first place. Vanheim has cast Forge of the Ancients (twice), Gift of Health, Well of Misery, and Arcane Nexus in this game. That's a lot of gems, and dispelling takes fewer gems than casting the enchantment.

By the way, apparently Fire Storm > C'tis. I think my upkeep went down by about 200 gold this turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Hey, hey, a couple of points!

o Petar is not playing this game, I am. I am not positive that Pythium is the one taking down my enchantments.

o I thought that you cannot dispell an enchantment unless you put in as many gems as were invested in the first place. If this is not the case, then I am a fool for using at least the double of gems for each of mine (but that unfortunate first FoA). Or maybe tripple, you know? ;-)

o I have realized I positively HATE not knowing who my enemies are. Right now, I should probably be declaring war on Abysia, but have not, because if my secret enemy is Pythium, he will probably ally with Abysia and I will be in trouble, and if C'tis is the one who was taking down my enchantments, he does not deserve my help.

o And finally, I did not cast Fire Storm at C'tis. I have no fire mages or fire on my pretender, I am alchemizing all of my fire gem income, and unless I am mistaken, Fire storm is a level 9 spell, and I do not have level 9 Evocation researched.

o Oh, and did I mention, I hate this game. I wanna play team games, where you know which way your front and rear are.

o As for the tons of gems, I am using them for some benefit to me (or trying to) Whoever is taking down my enchantments is wasting them.

o I hate diplomacy. I think I will write Pythiumx2, Abysiax2, C'tis and AI on a dice, and see which way it rolls.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I think Schmoe is refering to the level 7 evocation spell, Fire Storm. Oh, and he most assuredly knows where it came from. =)

But Yvelina, you should be happy about the position you're in. The rest of us are just crippling ourselves while you hoard and what not. We spend all our gems fighting and the thought of casting a global hasn't even crossed my mind.

I am having lots of fun though. =)

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the cost to dispel is related to the extra gems put into an enchantment, but not directly equal. In order to Dispel, you have to spend the cost of the Dispel (30), plus an amount equal to the amount originally spent above the base cost of the enchantment you are dispelling. For example, let's say opponent X casts Well of Misery, spending a total of 100 death gems (80 base + 20 extra). The cost to dispel would then be 50 astral gems (30 base +20 extra). Most globals have a base cost higher than 30 gems, so you can effectively dispel for fewer gems than the amount spent on the global.


As bleach said, I know who cast the Fire Storm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif Oh yes, I know the culprit, and his red, scaly butt will be mine, I tell you, mine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Sorry you're not having fun. To be honest, the tension in the "cold war" was getting to me, too, so I decided to stir things up a bit. It looks like I may have been better off waiting a few turns, but it's more exciting this way. I may lose, but I'm determined to enjoy doing it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Well, I actually disagree. Dispelling your enchantments hurts you. What does an opponent want to do to his enemy? Hurt him/her. I personally don't expect any global to Last long. I just hope I get some use out of mine before they're all gone.

Hey, what about Arco, Machaka, and Pythium! They're still in this too.

Anyway, I'd be interested in a team game, too, once this one is over. Could be fun.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Here's a clip from a thread somewhere that I saved:


AFAIK if both the global spell and the Dispel pay the base cost, there is about a 50% dispel chance. This is however modified, depending upon (for both spells) :
- extra gems spent,
- difference in skill of the caster and the level of the spell.
There is also an open-ended d6 added to the gem input of every global and dispelling attempt.
Exemple : a lvl 10 nature mage casts Gift of Health (lvl 5) with 25 extra gems. Sum=25+5+D6(oe). Dispelling astrologer has astral lvl 3 only but uses 35 extra gems. Sum=35+D6(oe). Dispel will probably succeed (35+d6 vs 30+d6) : it's hard to beat a difference of 5 with one (even open-ended) d6.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

We're waiting on Arco, and I know he staled Last turn. J Henry, are you still with us?

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

J Henry has had two consecutive stales on us now, unless he shows up in the next 12 hrs, or unless someone objects, I'm going to change him to AI sometime tomorrow.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I say we give him another 24 hours. Since it's on 48h quickhost, and usually somebody takes more than 24 hours, it shouldn't be a big deal.

I know, it's a longshot, but it would be better than setting him to AI.

You know Thufir, the more experience I'm getting with this game the worse I feel about going AI in the Last game we played. I know that me doing so really screwed you over. I realize now I should have at the very least tried to find a sub, so consider this an apology.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

With him stalling every turn, it's just as if we had 48h with quickhost disabled. My term has started, and I really like it this way. And to make things even better, I know it is not Arco who is throwing spells at me. I really do not get it. Machaka, Abysia, and C'tis are fighting. Pythium should be happy to let me join the fray, so he can remain at peace and build up. Who the hell is testing my domes every turn? I wish I could throw a few fire domes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Well, I'm in no rush here, but I believe that it has been more than 4 days now since J Henry took a turn. IMO, Arco has been very static the entire game, and other than further perplexing Yvelina as to the source of hostile spell casting (which actually was of considerable value http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - but thats permanently lost now, no matter whether he shows up or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif), I don't see that he was likely to have much impact on the outcome of the game.


Actually, I just went through my list of games, and I don't see that you went AI in any of them, unless you were using a different ID? There were a couple of positions that went AI prematurely in Pandemonium (they were owned by "Jarenko" and "odd_enuf"), so I guess your apology is going to the wrong person?

In all the games I have created, I've never seen the need to be that "hardcore" about going AI or not. I can see the fun in creating a "no quitter" game, and I'd have a different opinion in that case, but none of my games to date have been declared as no quitter games.

In our game, it would certainly be bad if any of yourself, Yvelina or Bleach went AI. And if the game became unbearable for any of you, I'd certainly work to find a sub. But for the rest of us, it doesn't seem that we are likely to play a major role in the outcome.

OTOH, I've also never gone AI myself. If I become uncompetitive in a game, the level of fun in it does drop, but I usually find it pretty easy to crank out turns that are far better than what the AI could do, without a large amount of effort. I can also maintain a line of diplomacy that's consistent with the history of the nation I've created. I'm sometimes surprised by how many players go AI when they're down to their Last two or three provinces. It take so little effort to play at that point, and I usually value the opportunity to experiment tactically, w/o any great consequence hinging on the result. If I can drag out my ending for 1-2 turns longer than the AI could've then I congratulate myself for having contributed to the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So, generally, fighting it out to the bitter end is a good thing, but I've never felt it should be required. What *does* get me torqued is when a player just disappears w/o any notice whatsoever. It takes 5 minutes to post a PM to the game owner w/ your password and say "I'm gone". It takes maybe half an hour to post on the forum a note looking for subs, and doing a bit of follow up. Simply disappearing is totally lame, IMO.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

We can certainly disable quickhost - I'm fine with that. Is anyone opposed to turning off quickhost? If do that would it be ok to set it to host about 11pm PDT (which I think is GMT-7, since we're on daylight savings time).


Ah, fire domes are nice! Wouldn't a world where all the mysteries of life are removed be so boring! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Didn't you host a PBEM game back in May or June? I was Machaka, I thought you were Abyssia, and Ulm and Pythium had jumped out in the lead. Abyssia and Machaka had an alliance, and the turn I went AI, the AI decided to attack Abyssia, even though Ulm was seiging two Machakan fortresses! That was my first MP game. This is my second.

Anyway, I don't have a real problem with people going AI, but I think it's polite to at least try to find another resolution.

Agreed.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Yeah, I don't have a problem with going to no quickhost. I'm in the middle of a very busy semester, too. But I'm fine with quickhost enabled, if people want to keep it that way.

Don't we all...

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Erk! I double-checked, and it appears you were not the Thufir I was speaking of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Mea culpa. But still, if you had been that guy, and I had gone AI on you, I would have felt bad. Heh.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

OK, Arco is now set to AI. I will now set to 48h fixed hosting, and I will set it to host at 8pm, PDT. If there's any consensus to change that, I'll be happy to do so (I'm guessing that this is a time that will work both east coast and west coast - it's my impression that we don't have any European players in this game).

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Sorry all... ...lost net contact for a few days... ...figured I staled for a few turns but didn't mean to hold things up... ...and tried to play this morning...

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Sorry about that - but that was a pretty lengthy disappearance of yours, so I was at a bit of a loss. For future reference, if you can make it to a web browser via a friend's computer (or whatever), and let us know your out of touch for a bit, we could've worked up some alternate solutions.

Hope to see you in another game!

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

My apologies for the delayed response - I've been meaning to reply to this for a while.


I can certainly sympathize w/ the desire to play team games. I've talked a bit with Boron about the team game that he's in, and it does sound like fun. The downside of a team game is that unless your team has the time and the will to communicate and coordinate effectively, then there's not much of a point in being a "team". From what Boron has told me, they have had some communication problems in their game.

You may have read this, but a while back Bleach started an excellent thread ( here) on what this community thinks is reasonable while conducting diplomacy in MP games. I come from a background of playing the boardgame "Diplomacy" where cutthroat play and back stabbing are essential to the game being interesting (and it can get *very* interesting indeed, if you're interested in complex strategy). Partly based on Bleach's thread, I've decided to moderate my behavior while playing Dom2, as I think the majority of the Dom2 community has a different mind set than most Diplomacy players have.

That said, even in Dom2 I find it helpful to cultivate a bit of deliberate split personality disorder (as one would with any RP type of game - particularly those RP games that permit/encourage inter-player conflict). As such, the one that thing that I can promise you, Yvelina, is that if you were to attack the nation of Pythium magically, or otherwise, based on a possibly mistaken belief that Pythium cast those dispels, then I would react with fury in-game (well such fury as the weakened Pythium is capable of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), but would *not* carry it over to any new games.

YMMV, but for me the 2 keys to making FFA, diplomacy type games fun are to deliberately split in-game and out-of-game mindsets, and making sure not to carry over grudges between games. Oh, and perhaps not taking the game *too* seriously - if I've made my guess wrong and attacked the wrong player - who cares? It's just a game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On a separate note, I've hosted four games, and this game has had the most fun/interesting group to play with! It's been quite interesting to watch the ebb and flow of who's in the lead, and I'm looking forward to seeing the ultimate outcome!

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I am SO gonna hurt someone... Two more turns, and someone will pay for all the dispells, and all the spells that my domes intercepted, and the fire spell that got through.

If he happens to be the actual culprit, great! If not, well, I'll get to him, eventually! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif

Arco, you are out of the game, for which I am sorry... But was it you?

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Good for you!

Just remember, it wasn't me! I swear it!

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Woops. Vanheim's troops bumped heads with Pythium's forces again on this turn. But you know, that happens when you are invading the same nation. Although I was the attacked party in all three cases, I do not mind (not having any casualties helps)

On the other hand, I trust that there will be no further 'accidents'. There is a clear border now, and I will consider any attacks on Arco's territories north of it as agressions against Vanheim. These get punished.

On a different note, I see that some spies are still trying to penetrate my borders. I appreciate the training provided to my patrollers, but I warn you that I will be a lot less happy with the intruders if I were to start catching them deep inside my territories. A girl has to have her secrets.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Hey, is anyone still playing? I just looked at the game, and only Vanheim (me) and Abysia have taken their turns... Do you guys concede the natural superiority of Vanir over humans, spiders, and lizards?

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Well, I confess my interest is not exactly at a peak - but at least looking at the graphs, I'd think C'tis is still in the running. As long as C'tis or Abysia want to give it a go, I'll stick it out.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Hmm... I was just kidding about the superiority. Not that it is not true, or anything, but I did not expect anyone to agree :-p But if your interest is dwindling, all you have to do is own up to dispelling my poor little globals. Then the holy AND unholy might of the Vanir Empire will come down on you like... a ton of supercombatants.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Yeah, I'm here. Just not a lot of time to kick around on the Boards, ya know? Anyway, it looks like Vanheim will be looking for an opponent soon.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Vanheim has been defeated on the diplomatic front. No worries. Every negotiator has been issued a Gate Cleaver and sent abroad to redeem himself by trying a new approach. We'll see how that works out.

Foolish Heliophagi
 

The C'tis wish it to be known that a great Heliophagus, whose name will not be mentioned, and who was equipped with the Tartarian Chains, the Black Heart, and various other enchanted items, has failed the C'tis race miserably. When given orders to assassinate Burninator, the King of Fire, it seemed that he lacked direction. Inexplicably, the Heliophagus tried repeatedly to enrage, blind, and boil the blood of Burninator, rather than engage in combat and risk its skin. Some have whispered that the Heliophagus was never given explicit combat instructions and its feeble mind could compose no better course of action, but to say such is blasphemy and will be dealt with harshly. Needless to say, the offending Heliophagus has once again been banished to the nether realms. The C'tis are currently debating whether it is worthwhile to summon it again and give it another chance.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Be gentle. The C'tis are a peace-loving folk, after all. Never mind the undead titans and demons rising from their swamps.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

> Inexplicably, the Heliophagus tried repeatedly to enrage, blind, and boil the blood of Burninator, rather than engage in combat and risk its skin.

On the other hand, the timidity of your supercombatants served them well in the other battles. I wish they had not routed - I think I killed only one big guy or two... when I was shooting for a lot more.

> Never mind the undead titans and demons rising from their swamps.

As they rise, so shall they sink http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

The nation of C'tis concedes. They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn. Had the C'tis general (me) more time in RL, he might continue just to experiment with a few things before his swift demise, but such is not the case. Congratulations to Vanheim! And thanks to everyone who played in this game.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

> They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn.

I hope you do not think I was cheating. If you wish, I can send you a few turn files to see how I did it. By the way, the Last turn I divided my attacks between you and Abysia. And I have a good third of my forces besieging Pythium's castles.

If everyone else conceeds we might want to free the slot on the server.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I didn't take Schmoe's comments that way. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly have no reason whatsoever to think that you were cheating.


Well, that's a no brainer! Yes, I concede. Well fought Yvelina! Your forces in the end game were truly impressive, and I had no hope of standing against any of your high quality Tartarians.

It was a great game everyone, I learned a lot and really enjoyed myself. Thanks to all involved! If I don't hear any objections, I'll stop the game tomorrow morning.

- Thufir

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

No, I'm just slightly discouraged because I thought I was in a somewhat stronger position than I was. I probably made a few mistakes the Last 5 turns or so, as I had to rush my turns due to RL, but I was so far behind on the resource curve it didn't really matter. My best guess is that allowing you to have the Nexus as long as you did was a serious mistake. That, and the fact that you didn't fight another opponent until late in the game when Arco went AI, so you were free to spend all of your time building up. Seriously though, well done. You fully convinced me of the reasons I belonged in this newbie game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Yes, it is the ressources that did it. I had about 170 clams, 150 fetishes and 70 blood stones. The Forge of the Ancients turned out also extremely powerful. This was the second game I had it (the other one started much later, but was faster paced, and I learned TONS from it) Every turn, I was forging 10 pearls and 10 fetishes, and as many blood stones as I could. Apart from Odin, Veni, Vedi and Vici, my commanders were no better than yours. But I could afford much better equipment. I think that my black servants could have taken on a Tartarian of yours and won.Actually, I stayed out of the fray because I was afraid to get mobbed. I do not think that I lost a single mage or supercombantant in the war against Arco, Pythium, Abysia and C'tis. Pythium blinded a very powerful Ether Lord, and I had to rush a few Vanadrotts to the rear because they got the swamp sickness, but apart from that, I had no casualties.

And the events justified my fears. As soon as started fighting, although it was against the AI, I got mobbed :-)
When I started I was a MP newbie myself... but at Worldcon Petar (Tuidjy) and I played a lot of games together, and I learned quite a few tricks. And my placement in this game was very fortunate. I still wish I did not feel that I had to attack Jotunheim. But I think that without it, I would not have won.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

The game is now stopped.

Congratulations on a victory well deserved, Yvelina!

Couple of questions for you:

I recall one of your solo Tartarians kicking my butt in a water province - he was equipped with a Scutata Volturnus, a blood thorn and various other equipment. I've not seen the Scutata in use a whole lot - is that particularly effective generally, or more so underwater? It definitely seemed to be quite effective at mowing through my troops, as I recall...

Would you mind telling us roughly what astral income you were getting from the Arcane Nexus?

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Good game, guys. Well played.

I learned quite a lot.

Yvelina was just in an unstoppable position at the end. We should have done something about that much earlier.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Thufir, I can't speak for Yvelina, but I've used the Scutata quite a bit, and it's one of my favorite shields, maybe moreso than a Charcoal Shield. The free Shocking Grasp every turn is great for reducing the chaff, it provides good defense and protection, and it's very cheap.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Yeah, I agree. There was a point for me where I could go north and attack Vanheim, or go west and attack Machaka (and eventually Abyssia). Because my capitol was on the very border of Machaka/Abyssia, I decided to go west. The fact that Yvelina was a very accomodating ally helped sway my decision. In retrospect, things may have turned out very differently if I had turned north, instead.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

It is one of my two favorite non-artifact shields. The other is the Charcoal shield. I use one or the other depending on the situation.

The Charcoal shield is great against mobs, and gives you fire resistance, which is why it was the shield of choice on the C'tis front.

The Scutata Volturnus's attack is better against single, powerful enemies, has better defense, and gives you electrical resistance. Using it underwater, against Pythium, was an easy call :-)

Once I got fully into forge mode, I was getting about 400 absorbed gems, or 100 astral gems per turn. I would use them to wish for gems, which brings in 210 gems of all kinds, and use those to forge items. OF course, they would get absorbed back into the Vortex http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Absolutely. But I was already prepared for a defensive war and you would have probably not have been able to unite everyone against me. At that time, you looked like the one to beat, not I. Although I doubt that anyone had anything that could beat Odin, Veni, Vidi or Vici, who already were equiped with the best artifacts.

... and now I am off to bed. I love debriefings, but what I need is sleep. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

I was very open to the idea of uniting against Vanheim before C'tis invaded Machaka. I believe Vanheim already had the 3 AQs, the Arcane Nexus, and a Tartarian factory going at that point.

But once C'tis attacked Machaka and triggered my alliance with them, we were doomed.

Pythium, Machaka and I were still really weak from our previous wars so I'm still not sure we could have defeated Vanheim had C'tis united with us.

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Oh.. now that the game is over, time to fess up!

Who kept sending those ashen angels against me? Grrr...

Re: MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game) - open
 

Heh, that was me. It turns out that Ashen Angels prefer horror-marked victims, and it just so happens that soul contracts horror-mark the bearer. Win! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif