Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Yeah - three left, hopefully they're still checking to see if the game is alive.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

only mictlan(boron) left...i sent him a pm because i hope he knows the game started

he is around bec he did his turns in other games, i just hope he gets the pm in time

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Well, if he stales on turn 1, maybe we can just consider it a well deserved handicap. Even if he's forgotten us on turn one, I'm sure he'll remember us before turn 2 comes due. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Boron came through and Turn 2 is up - with no stales. I think we are up and running for real now!

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

yeah i noticed...looks like he got my pm in time

ill do my turn soon

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Good luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

OK. I registered for this Battle ranking thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

I'm real sorry to drag you guys down, but I can't play at work. It's about 9 am at work now where I am as I type this, and I'll only be able to play when I get off work, at about say 7 or 8 pm today.

With SEIV, I was able to download turns at work, get them back to my home computer, play the turns at lunch time, and then upload the turns when I come back after lunch. But Dominions requires the client to be actually connected to the server, so it's not possible to do this.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

good work, jarenko! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

No worries. And honestly, I don't think it's going to make much difference in the long run. Although I've yet to take an MP game past turn 30, from what I've read in Posts, once you get into midgame, we won't be able to crank out the turns anyhow.

Which btw, I should've mentioned before, I expect at some point we'll want to raise it to 48hr QH, which I'll be happy to do when there's a consensus to make that change.

- Thufir

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

I take it the problem is that you are not allowed to install Dom II on your work machine? and the machine you use at lunch has no internet connection?

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Or is it a matter of downloading your turn?

I actually do sometimes download my turns, and work them out offline. The UI for this is not obvious, and I've never transferred the files in an MP game, but I have many times in SP and I don't see why that wouldn't work for MP as well.

When you connect to the server, and enter your kingdom, the client saves two files that reflect your turn: NationName.2h and NationName.trn (e.g. pythium.2h and pythium.trn). If you connect at one location, copy those two files onto a disk (or use email or whatever), then copy those 2 files into your dominions2 install dir, in a folder named "Pandemonium2", you should be able to load up your turn, and set up all your orders on the second computer (in your case your home computer?).

In playing your turn, it will write your orders into the .2h file once you exit by the "E" key (or by escape, if you chose the save game option when you quit), and you can then copy that file (I'd copy both files to be safe), back on your disk and take it to the computer you upload with. Or, if possible and you prefer you can connect back to the server again from your second computer and upload the turn from there.

Often when I am downloading my turn, I am careful to not submit it before I've entered my orders. If you want to be sure to do this, when you first connect to the server to receive your new turn results DO NOT type "E" to quit the connection. Entering "E" uploads your turn file and will cause the server to think you have submitted your turn, even if you entered no orders. Instead hit "escape" and chose the "save game file" as you exit the game. It will give you a warning about not having uploaded your turn, but you can ignore that as that's exactly what you want to do anyway.

Does any of the above make sense? And/or does it solve your problem? It's not as complicated as the length of this post would indicate - the length just means I need to go take a tech writing course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

The problem is that you need to connect with a Dom2 client to the server. With SEIV, you just connect to the server with any old browser, download the files, copy them to disk and then bring them to the computer with the game installed.

And yeah, I'm not supposed to install games on my work computer. It's a crappy computer anyway and playing on it would just be tedious.

Bit the bullet anyway and played during lunchtime. I can't do it all the time though, so don't count on it. Main problem here is that I may be busy during lunchtime, or else need to meet with people etc.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

I get it. Nice feature on SEIV's part.

Anyhow, I wouldn't worry about as this group of players is widely spread throughout the world, and I'm sure we're not going to be doing any blitzing in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Is that SEIV or PBW?

It sounds like the standard email files arrangment done thru a web page. That can be done with Dom2 also (the game is a PbEM game). The "connect to the server" is an option added later which alot of players preferred.

The .2h file is the file your game creates (2h stands for "to host") and the .trn is what the host sends back to you.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

PBW of course. I realize that this isn't really a failing of Dom2. It's just that on geo's SEIV server, players are free to either connect directly using an SEIV client to the server, or to download and upload files from and to the website using a regular browser, while on the mosehansen server, the only option is to connect with a dom2 cllient. And of course, I realize that since the server service is being provided for free, I should be grateful for what there is already (and I am!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Still the fact is that for me personally, the PBEM approach would be a lot more convenient, since I use different computers at different times of day at different locations.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

I really don't see how uploading files manually is any more convenient than using the game client to do it. I suppose if you had one computer with internet access, but no game software, and another computer with the game, but no internet, and wanted to download on the first computer and copy to the game system with a floppy or something.

Another case might be if you are playing behind a firewall, and the firewall doesn't allow you to connect to the game server, but does let you contact webpages.

Are you in these situations? Or something else?

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

list of players again

Pangaea PrinzMegaherz
R'lyeh msew
Ermor Aku
Man jarenko
Mictlan Boron
Abysia Thufir
Arcoscephale frosted flake
Vanheim odd_enuf
Jotunheim anatoli11
Ulm deccan

and man(jarenko) is going to stale soon

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Basically right. I can get web access on my work computer, but can't install games on it. I get install games on my own computer, but getting Online with it in the daytime is inconvenient (it's the company's telephone line). Getting Online with my personal computer in the evenings is usually fine.

Another situation I sometimes find myself in is I'm travelling with my laptop. With SEIV, I go to the nearest internet cafe, download my turn files, copy 'em onto a USB flash device, transfer that to my laptop, play the turns on my laptop, copy the files containing the commands for the turn back on the USB flash device, go back to an internet cafe and upload my turns. Very handy.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

And so it goes - Jarenko are you out there?

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

lol the game just hosted and half of us are doing our turns right now lol

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Haven't seen frosted flake around, but damn he's playing arco against type. All expansion and no research. I'm particularly interested in seeing a well-played arco since in all my SP games, the AI plays arco very badly even if given a good position on the map.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Yeah I noticed also he has the most provinces and has no research. I found it a bit odd but if it works then use it. I am curious what his pretender is though.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

With a name like Smaug? I'd bet it's a dragon.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

How the heck did I miss a turn? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh well - my fault everyone. Apologies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Travelling through a time warp and miss a day? Happens to me all the time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So it goes - it's not like we're on warp speed anyhow. With a large number of players spread around the globe I think that's impossible, regardless.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Well, I haven't done much MP yet, but so far, in the opening game I always choose expansion over research, if I have that option. The fact that frosted has been able to expand at 1-2 provinces per turn since turn 1 is impressive to me. With the income from all those provinces he's taking, I expect he'll be able to make up on research soon enough.

I'm also wondering about his pretender design - sounds like it's capable of taking indies from turn 1. What kind of pretender can do that? And of course I must ask http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif -what kind of weaknesses come with such a pretender?

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Well the name is Smaug maybe whoever said it is right that its a dragon. I think the dragon can pull it off.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

only vanheim(odd enuf) left for it to quickhost

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

hm perhaps a trampler like earth mother / shedu ?

a wrym can probably too .

the advantage with arco is that he doesn't need to care too much about afflictions because later his priestesses can heal them .

a wyrm with a fireshield e.g. would probably work against indies on turn 2 quite well .
i don't like the wyrm though because he is so expensive and has no slots http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

an artillery pretender can do too with the initial army :
a earth 9 cyclops with flying shards or a fire 9 moloch with fire darts ( evo 1 ) can rout most indies with the initial army only http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Ouch, just had my own pretender killed. I guess I'll need to think more carefully about using him to solo indies.

Alas, dear Carnifex, I loved thee well.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

That hurts! Using the pretender solo is a tricky business - I just lost mine in another MP game.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Mines still alive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Heh, my only consolation is that Pangaea lost his on the very first turn.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

This is only a minor settback for Pangaea.

I somehow thought we had independent strength 4 which would not have been a problem... well, 6 was definitly to much for poor old Tiratan

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

new turn is up

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Boron,

I'm doing some tests with a fire 9 moloch, using fire darts in an Indy 9 setup, and it isn't looking good. Have you tested this against indies in turn 1? Or does this not work against strong indies? Also with Abysia, I'd think flare would be a better choice than fire darts, correct? Are you assuming any other equipment/spells?

- Thufir

PS Hope you don't mind assisting me knowing that I'll use this in our Casual Carnage game. After all, it will only contribute to making it a better game for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

no i don't mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

you may not attack anything with knights / heavy cav .
but in another game i play as mictlan with f9 moloch .
i think indies are on 7 there .
he + mictlans starting troops +10 more because mictlan has so low morale conquer indeps well .

normally the imps fly into the enemy , delay him and before the enemy arrives to me my moloch has time enough to cast 4-5 turns 1 fire darts / turn .
he casts about 8-10 of them .
most indies are scared away already and the few that don't rout sometimes are routed by my small army then .

the army is only that the moloch doesn't rout after the imps have gone .
otherwise he would be a perfect sc .

fire darts is much better than flare against indies because flare has only area of effect 1 .
and it has not high precision so it misses often indeps .

from my 8-10 fire darts at least half almost always hit so they do much more damage .




i don't know what the coward moloch mod does but i think it removes the imps .

if this is true forget what i have said and use a standard bufflist .

i would probably use the following :
quickness , fireshield , mistform , you can add mirror image since it is air too .
if you take nature magic you can add personal regeneration.
with D3 later ( alteration 6 ) you can add soul vortex which is great .
for the above mentioned you only need enchantment 1 + alteration 3 .
paths :
fire 1 , air 2 , water 1


but moloch is risky as sc :
he has base protection of 15
you get this with stoneskin : E( alteration 2 ) too .
with ironskin : E(alteration 3 ) you get prot 20 .
with invulnerability : EEE (alteration 5 ) you get prot 30.

my indy conquering vq survives against most indies with prot 15 already .
with prot 20 she wins normally against knights too.
with prot 30 no indy can damage her .


with your moloch now the decision is : are 15 prot enough ?
getting prot 20 is not that much more and you need alteration 3 for that plus earth 1.
for prot 30 you need earth 3 with invulnerability + you don't reserach that in the first 10 turns probably.

the problem with abysia + moloch is that abysia has almost no chance to ever get healing items .
so when you are unlucky and get afflictions your moloch gets more and more useless.


Conclusion :
if the moloch mod from graeme really removes the imps i would not use a moloch with abysia .
i would use him with arco since after conquering indies i can put him into a province with a lab , assign priestesses healing him and he can meanwhile forge / summon / research .

but with abysia + moloch sc you have always to care about afflictions and if you take earth 3 or not for the additional protection .

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

This is great info, Boron. Thanks!

I am seeing some successful tests now, there are a lot of variations with scripts and positions, and it took a while to hone in on a successful combination.

Flare does seem to work, although I really haven't tested enough to say if it might work better than fire darts.

The section you just wrote on buffs was very helpful for Pretender design in general, that was a nice, succinct summary that helps a lot in knowing what various research goals can do for you.

Since you seem to be in an informative mood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Do you have any opions on how SCs develop in later game?

For example:
1) If you don't take any N (or E or A), is it ever reasonable to plan on doing empowerment by late game to get N2 (and thus personal regen)? And of course similar questions for E or A. Or, is empowering your Pretender from zero to 2 or 3 nearly always cost-prohibitive?

2) Your description doesn't talk about items - but it would seem reasonably easy with a Moloch to get to prot 30 w/ items - is this not so? I'm not sure how this all adds up, and I don't have a convenient test available, but even just jade armor + a black steel helm would get you close, correct?

3) I do worry a lot about afflictions, with every position I play (as I've never played Arco), but this is one of the areas of the game that I think I know least how to handle. I have done a lot of SP testing of all my MP pretenders up to turn 10-20, so I am beginning to develop some knowledge here, if not real solutions.

In the case of Abysia, I can see how it would be hard for them to reach GoH or the Chalice until long after other nations get there. How about (in the end game), Faery Queens? I know that's a lot of nature development for a non-nature nation, but at least it's not a race. Maybe by the time you could do that you could so many other things that its not so relevant.

What I'm doing in my other Abysia MP game, where I know I have a sub-optimal pretender, is to rarely, if ever use him solo until I can equip him and get some of the buffs you describe. Still it's a very hard judgement for a newbie to make - and you do see us newbies getting their pretenders killed an awful lot!

4) As you mentioned, it seems likely that a key part of Frosted agressive strategy relies on the fact that he doesn't need to worry about afflictions as much as the rest of us do. For the rest of us that do need to worry about afflictions would you say that E3 for solo SC pretenders is a must? Or if not, do you wait to do soloing until you know you can get prot 20 via equipment?


Anyhow, sorry to bend your ear so much, but this is very helpful stuff, Boron!

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

I've done some more testing now, and you are right, fire darts are better than flares. Flare is probably better against knights/HC, but we don't want to fight them solo, anyhow.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

with scs i have done a lot of thinking in the Last days which summonable ones are my favourite lategame scs .
unfortunately i have come to no favourite yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

with your moloch :
sure you can bring him up to higher protection with items .
BUT not for indy conquering .
and i talked about that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
as abysia with only starting fire gem income you can't forge a jade armor for indy conquering e.g.

if you would be ulm you could always forge the 19 protection trinklet black steel full plate e.g.

but as abysia this is not possible .
IF you take an immortal/recuperation pretender you don't need to worry about afflictions at all .
these are rare though :
the only real immortal sc is the vq .
most , perhaps all recuperation scs are reserved for pangenea .

with empowering : it always costs 50 gems for the first path , i think 15 for lvl 2 , 30 for lvl 3 ...
so this is until very late in the game too expensive .
if you want get e.g. air 3 you have to pay 95 airgems .
for 100 airgems you get 2 airqueens .
i would chose the airqueens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

the only path in which i empower my pretenders maybe is in astral until astral 9.
then you can wish for magic power and get +1 in each path even those who don't have .
but this is VERY VERY VERY lategame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

so if you intend to use a path for something highlevel like level 5+ you should at least take lvl 3 in most pathes because most items to empower need lvl 3 .

if i plan to e.g. to summon a airqueen i need at least air 3 on my pretender if my national mages can't do that ( caelum could e.g.).
with air 3 then i can e.g. forge a bag of winds and a winged helmet : both give air +1 which results in the needed air 5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


for earlygame combat stone/ironskin , quickness , fire shield , breath of winter shield , mistform , mirror image and personal regeneration are the most important buffs .

midgame invulnerability , phönix pyre , soul vortex become available which are really good .
when they are available you have normally forged already e.g. boots of quickness so that you can still do 5 good buffs .


with SC you have to differ between the 2 following :
early game indy conquering sc
late game fully equipped sc

most earlygame indy conquer scs can be turned into lategame fully equipped scs .
but there are exeptions , e.g. wyrm/carrion dragon
and some really good lategame equipped scs are poor indy conquering scs : e.g. nataraja


the only absolutely riskless indy conquering sc is the vq .

a pod / moloch with greames mod is a really good indy conquering sc too .
if he gets afflicted it is for many nations not bad because they can heal him midgame by either the chalice or a summoned fairy queen (5N).
and tien chi / arco are special .
arco has the priestesses .
tien chi gets at least 1 hero who can heal .

the chalice needs 3N2S to forge .
the Last possibility to heal afflictions is the global Gift of Health (5N).



the problem is abysia has no nature magic .
so with abysia the only safe indy conquering sc is the vq .

you can turn your pod / virtue / moloch etc. with equippment in a good lategame sc .
but you can't solo indies absolutely sure .
but you can take with you a small army and use your pretender as artillery .



for abysia though i think the vq just fits extremely well .
the only other choice of pretender i would use for abysia is the in a few days old suggested f9e9 scorpion king from somebody else which is very impressive too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

the moloch fits thematically well with abysia but not gameplay wise .
the moloch fits well for those nations where i take him often :
vanheim , mictlan , marignon .

there i take f9 primary for the bless effect and with my above described fire darts strat he is a good helper for expanding too but not a sc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

from the 3 mentioned nations mictlan is my absolute favourite because they are so magically flexible .

marignon + vanheim are quite narrow there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif




my favourite nations are at the moment :
mictlan
abysia
arco
ermor
pan cw

now i will try caelum and i guess they will probably become a favourite nation for me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

pythium , ryleh and ulm i like too but not as much as the above mentioned http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

the only nations which i strongly dislike are :
machaka , marignon and atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

oh one thing i forgot :

i am a huge fan of strong pretenders / really bad scales .



but this is perhaps mostly just personal preference .
so if you aren't very willing to take e.g. :

death 3 heat 3 sloth 3 at least then you should not listen toooo much to my advice .

i put 860! points in my caelum pretender + scales for our new carnage game . this is why i said it is very extreme/excentric in a post there .
i put normally at least about 500 points in my pretender + dominion .

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

anyone know if i staled? i am ermor

my computer got screwed up and had to reformat...still getting it up and running...should have dom installed within the next 3 hours

i believe i did my turn before my computer died on me yesterday morning but want to check if anyone knows if i staled or not

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

You definitely played. It looks as if you built a fort Last turn.

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

ok cool so my turn went through

i should have my dom2 installed in like an hour or so maybe two

and i guess ulm(deccan) are the red candles i see next to me

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

only ryleh(msew) left for turn to host

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Well, I could tell you had a new fort from the charts, but yes, those red candles are probably me.

Which brings me to my question: this is my first MP game, do people usually gang up on and kill Ermor early in MP games?

Er, nothing personal Aku. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

Never - but Ulm is a very popular target. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

well the mp game i had with ermor(boron was actually playing it) he was basically left alone until end game

he was making allies just fine by managing dominion with his allies

Re: MP Game - Pandemonium (noob/int game) - open
 

And you can count on Aku to be quite objective on this subject http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif