Re: Server Problems
 

Delete your the game folder and reconnect. If it stil happens we will roll back if we can t find another way.

Re: Server Problems
 

I've already tried deleting and reconnecting Last turn without improvement. I haven't tried logging in to the current turn yet. Will do that as soon as I get back from work.

Re: Server Problems
 

This turn worked fine so I just missed one turn because of the corrupted file. I think nothing serious happened so let's just keep going. Next turn is 72 hours quickhost then, right?

Re: Server Problems
 

After the next host I am going to set it to 72-hour qh, yes.

Re: Server Problems
 

Next hosting will be Sunday morning at 1:00am EST, and then we go to 72 hours. I extended it a bit since I had to bring the server down briefly for maintenance.

Re: Server Problems
 

Anyone want to form an alliance??

Ermor is currently fighting a group of 3 players, who have support from at least one other. Ulm has been driven to AI status, but Pangea, Man, and Caelum remain working in concert with the support of at least Jotunheim.

Apparently this confederation had been planned from the beginning of the game, as indicated by the build and expansion patterns of my neighbors.

Ermor is about dead, but the rest of you should know that if you engage one of these guys, you'll probably end up fighting all of them.


Good luck.
Crash.

Re: Server Problems
 

ahh, crash - this game was also advertised on another board, quartertothree, and, as such, the players from there know each other and it is no surprise that a group of them are working in concert. - especially since they most likely have played previous domII games together.

Re: Server Problems
 

I am in no position to help, alas. Still working on my little island off the west coast...

Re: Server Problems
 

I am miles away from the action, but I hereby announce that I will join in an alliance against any people who start a game allied. That ruins the FFA nature of the game and is unethical at best. I even consider it a form of cheating that people like this do not announce pre-game alliances BEFOFE the game begins.

So, is it Man, Caelum, and Pangaea that everybody else should fight any chance they get? Should Jontunheim also be included in the anti-cheater alliance?

Re: Server Problems
 

I don´t think that they allied before the game started, or that the alliance will Last if ermor gets destroyed.
More likely they loaded the map after the game started to check out the starting positions and noticed that ermor was put in the middle of them.
So it was probably just the logical choice to take out ermor as soon as possible. Coordination is probably better than in a "normal" dom2 game, because they can easily send each other pms on that board and know each other somewhat.

I´m in another game with some of them as sg ermor myself and I too was under coordinated attack from three nations very early. But that came as no surprise since I was put in the middle of them, so it was only natural to ally against me. Fortunately sg ermor is very good at defense, so I came out ahead in the wars and now 11 out of 15 hall of fame spots belong to my commanders.

Re: Server Problems
 

Well I don't know if I would call it cheating, but it is really unpleasant to be on the receiving end.

I wish I could help him out but my research stinks and I am on the other side of the board.

Finally, I don't think Caelum is part of the alliance and it sounds ( again I do not have 1st hand knowledge ) that Jotunhiem only has a treaty with Man.

Re: Server Problems
 

Turin:
I don't know the specifics of your other game, so I'm not sure by what you mean by very early. Bear in mind also that this game is VH research., in my case, I was no where near being able to field a non-undead force before turn 2x, especially considering that Ulm had outbid me for the merc bands. Though I admit, I am new to this game, someone else would probably have done better.

In THIS game, Ulm and Man both essentially rushed towards my start, templing all the way in order to show up at my door with a priest horde. That is a tactic that is only possible if you have assurances from your neighbors that they will support you. The ONLY thing that strat is good for is removing Ermor early.

In the case of man, easy neutrals were bypassed in an effort to go straight towards my starting territory. From what I've heard, the turn files of this game will be available at the end. Check them out and see how legit it looks to you, it is possible that I'm way off base. If I am wrong, I apologize, and will happily do so again.

I had thought the whole thing was an amazing coincidence until I:

1) more fully scouted man and ulms territory and noted their expansion patterns.
2) visited the QT3 Boards- to congratulate Ulm on a game well played- and found out that all 4 of the guys who've been fighting me hang out in the same spot, and a fifth guy (Jotun) said he hopes that the other nations leave alone those nations fighting ermor and those nations supporting that fight- implying that he was supporting an effort vs Ermor.

Caelums involvement... may be coincidental, may not be. The timing of his attack is suspect, though his army is of a more realistic composition.

As Ermor, I expected to lose-but have some fun doing it, I expected to have no friends, and to come into conflict with multiple players. What I did not expect was the apparently pre-meditated attention, and the amount of coordination involved -5 players??? who in their right mind wants to go 1v5 from turn 1?

Will the cooperation end once Ermor is gone? Maybe.. or maybe it will have to be re-visited to deal with the next one on the hit list. The important thing here is that you have a block of 4 (formerly 5) players all acting in concert, from the game's beginning. This needed to be publicized.

Was it one group of 5? Or 2 Groups of 2 and an opportunist all working the same direction? I am not sure. Does that distinction matter? I think it might, but again, I'm not sure.

'Cheating'? I would say no. Bad form? I think it is, and it doesn't matter what side of it I am on. Though this was only my second MP dom2 game, maybe this stuff is par for the course.

If this is a problem with all fixed start maps... it really blows.

Re: Server Problems
 

With very early I mean turn 5-6. It is a game with very hard research and 6 starting provinces.
I managed to hold out with lots of wraith centurions, the fatigue effect form cold 3, my dominion of 10 guaranteeing my wraith centurions immortality and luck( getting militia events in besieged castles etc) .
The problem with ermor is that the armies continually grow without ermor having to pay anything for it.
That means lategame it´s really hard to breach castle walls, especially once ermor has access to ghostriders and can wipe out any nonserious army for a very low gem cost.

If you play ermor vs good players, they will gang up on you early. If you don´t like that fact play a different nation.

You even say that you expect to have no friends and be attacked by multiple players. Why should they wait to attack you in a game with indie strength 9?

Re: Server Problems
 

Turin: You may be right.

This was not a case of me thinking people should "wait to attack", heck, I was the one who attacked first. There is a difference between aggressive expansion and what has happened this game.

But hey, none of that matters. In the spirit of aggressive, out of game diplo being the mark of a 'good player', I'm still looking for allies.

I know.. if I was really good, I'd have handled this diplo stuff prior to game kick off, but I'm still learning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Server Problems
 

I suggest that you get over yourself instead of whining that people have a planned alliance. There was no mention made of any silly house rules about alliances, so you should assume that people will ally as they see fit. It would make no difference anyways if they had allied before the game started, since any good player who looked at that map would see that you should ally with Ermor's neighbours and rush them early.

Re: Server Problems
 

Why are you playing Ermor on a map that sticks Ermor right in the middle of 5 enemies if you don't want it to be 1 vs 5 from the first turn? Your starting position is not a secret, and any living nation will certainly want to get rid of you or bottle you up in less than a dozen provinces before turn 20 if they can do it.

I never cease to be amazed at the behaviour of people who complain when they lose to an alliance. That's the nature of the game, and if you don't work the diplomacy angle you will end up losing.

It's not bad form. It's perfectly acceptable, standard, expected behaviour in a game that rewards you well for taking out an opponent early.

Well, then as a complete MP newbie, you shouldn't really have expected to Last more than a couple dozen turns against competent aggressive players anyways.

The problem is that you see it as a problem. It's not hard to create a coalition of 5 nations to agree to take out Ermor early once you know where they are, and it's really easy to find them given only a small amount of cooperation.

Re: Server Problems
 

Graeme:
Thanks for the feedback.

Though I am new to Dom2, I'm not new to multiplayer strat games in general. The "ok, let's goon-squad that guy" tactic is pretty universal across every strat game I've ever encountered, with pretty much the same results.

I'm going to take you at face value here and assume that you're right about Ermor being some kind of hostility-magnet, though In the Euro-wars 2 game- my first MP one, that did not seem to be the case.

Tell me experienced Dom2 guy:
Am I a 'good player' if me and 4 buddies decide we're going to take out playerX before any of us have contact with him/her? And when we do so.. is playerX a poor player if he/she calls us on it?

I'm just making sure here, if I read you right, your answers to the above should be yes and yes.

Also:
I'm not trying to throw stones here. I am new to this game, and this community. This particular game has been a negative experience for me. I would like to know the 'ground rules' you people go by so I can make my decision as to whether this hobby is really for me or not. So far, it looks like more than one player are under the impression that Ermor is not defeatable 1v1, so alliances are mandated, what other nations have that stigma? Also the diplo... what is the accepted standard? Always team with people I know/like outside of the game? Diplo by national preference (ie Marignon vs Ermor)? Or Diplo as to what is actually advantageous for my country at any particular time?

Thanks,
Crash.

*Grame: Completely unrelated question: What game were you checking out that you reg'd here in 2000? *

Re: Server Problems
 

My opinion is to pretty much ignore anything Graeme Dice says, as his advice is typically quite poor. You can see from many of his past Posts that he is frequently in the minority on lots of issues. Also, he loves to flame people unnecessarily.

ANY pre-game alliances should be announced before the game starts so that the other players can decide whether or not to play that way and form their own counter-alliances. Anything else is highly unethical. The best you can do as a response is tell everyone when it occurs (like you did) so that other folks know the truth about certain people. Of course, players can always change their handles and do it again. And unfortunately, there are far too many 'Norfleets' in the multi-player gaming communities who have to win at all costs. At least there seems to be fewer of this type in Dominions than there are in Starcraft and many other games.

A possible solution to the pre-game alliance problem is for the developers to come up with a team concept in addition to the standard FFA scenario. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, though.

Re: Server Problems
 

Well, since I've yet to see any useful advice from you, I'll simply return the favour.

You really like to whinge, don't you. I flame people who deserve it, and right now, you deserve it.

Go cry me a river. If there are no house rules about pre-game diplomacy, then anything goes. If you want to play a different type of game, then start your own and make the players anonymous.

That's right, since it isn't actually a problem.

Re: Server Problems
 

That means that you're good at diplomacy, which is the single most important part of the game.

No. A player who complains about in-game alliances is whining however when there are no pre-game rules about alliances.

I don't see why it's a negative experience. In any given Dom2 game, only 1 out of the 17 people will win. As such, you shouldn't expect to win more than 1/17 games at the most, and losing early simply means that you can move on to more games.

It's not that people think that Ermor can't be defeated, it's that Ermor permanently depopulates the provinces. People attack them because they want to keep you bottled up in a few provinces for as long as possible.

Make alliances with whoever you want, whenever you want.

Space Empires IV

Re: Server Problems
 

New turn up.

Re: Server Problems
 

Not that my opinion matters really but I have to agree with Greame on this. How could pregame diplomacy not be allowed, if nothing is said about it? Even if it was an established community house rule, this is an open forum and some players may never have played a MP game of any kind before and would have to be told.

Still, actually I'm playing a Space Empires IV game where only in-game diplomacy is allowed and it's a very good house rule . Makes coordination less powerful because of the 1 turn message delay and also you don't have to put lots of time into diplomatic emailing. I like diplomatic emailing, but it gets quite time consuming when playing many games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Server Problems
 

Just found this thread. Whew...

I'm playing Pangaea and there was indeed pre-game discussion about dealing with Ermor quickly. I'm somewhat a newbie too but that has always seemed to be a goal of Ermor's neighbors in my other games--essentially, remove Ermor before it becomes unstoppable. *shrugs* I'm not even fully aware of the logic behind "why" Ermor has big target on its back but I've been around long enough to know that it does and that it's prudent to get them out of the game ASAP.

When I found out I was about as close to Ermor as one could get I had two thoughts: 1) go with Carrion Woods and ally with Ermor or 2) go regular Pangaea and fight Ermor.

That's about all there was to it. "Oh look, Ermor is my neigbor so I either join him or fight him". I don't see how this can be considered bad form or (OMG!)cheating. It's purely a diplomatic/strategic decision. hell, I say the same thing in every game really, no matter who my neighbors are.

Anyway, although I agreed to this war with Ermor I have never actually invaded him though I am trying to keep him from taking over Ulm and, thus, surrounding me on 3 sides.

Crash, sorry you weren't aware of that massive target on Ermor's back. FOr that reason I'll probably never play Ermor in an MP game. I much prefer having friends. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I had no idea what your skill level was. Had I known before the game started I might have gone with my #1 option, with Carrion Woods, and approached you with an alliance offer. I like allying with newbies like me to take on the vets! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

!!Server Maintenance
 

The server will be going down at @9:00am EST Thursday, December 30th, for maintenance, and will likely be down for most of the day.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Since the server is down, could you extend the deadline when it's up again? If the deadline is soon that is.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Server is back up. The turn is reset to 72 hours.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

So the general assessment is that the turn has exploded. I feared as much but I did not have the time to look at it this morning.

When I get home this evening I will rollback and rehost the turn. That should clear up any inconsistencies.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

People should at least try to delete the game folder, then reconnect before we decide that a rollback is needed.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Well I can't check if I've lost some turns due to my problems.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

I think you should be OK (because, as far as I know, you are not in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif )

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

deleting the game folder doesn´t help. the login screen says that it´s turn 42, but the actual turn when you manage to login is still 41. So the problem should be solved if soapy just rehosts turn 41.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Ok I rolled back and rehosted. Game is now on turn 42, next hosting will be Wednesday moring 1:00am EST.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Note: delete your game folder before connecting, if you had already tried to connect to turn 42 before.

Re: !!Server Maintenance
 

Set to 48h quickhost now btw.

48hr Quickhost
 

new turn

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

Dyndns service seems to be down.

Here is an IP to connect to for the time being: 24.203.110.39

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

Edit:
Oops, wrong thread.

Looks like I'm just about out of this game now. Good playing to you all.

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

Any news of Abysia, Tien Chi, and/or Jotunheim?

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

I will be setting Abysia and Jotunheim to AI this turn, unless there are strident objections (presumably from the AWOL controllers of said nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

Turn 56 is up. It looks like the deadline is about 4:00 PM EST on Wednesday.

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

Is Crash still around? Looks like he will stale... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

I'm here,

I am really not sure how that stale happened. I try to check the game regularly but my clock has been kind of messed up lately (rotating shifts can blow). I'll try not to let it happen again.

Crash.

Re: 48hr Quickhost
 

I don't know how I staled (Pangaea) last turn either. I think it was because I played offline and just basically forget to reconnect and send the turn! oops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Attention Crash
 

Hosting is around 1 AM EST.

Ermor and Caelum have still not played.

Re: Attention Crash
 

Is everyone who is still active willing to continue the game?

Re: Attention Crash
 

Yep

Re: Attention Crash
 

To follow up with a bit more info....

We have had one player replacement (C'Tis) and one large power go AI (Marignon). One not-quite-so-major nation is likely to go AI soon due to lack of time (Pangaea).

I am positive (or in some cases pretty sure) that C'Tis, Pythium, Caelum, and Man are still active and quite interested in continuing.

Of the folks that hang out primarily here, I think we are interested in hearing from Atlantis and Ermor.

Re: Attention Crash
 

A report from Panther as Atlantis:

I did not know about the Marignon AI situation. I heard that there is another forum where all this is being discussed instead of here, but I do not have the URL for it.

As for the Atlantis game situation, I have lately been inclined to quit this game. My RL with my ongoing divorce plus changing jobs and moving into an apartment has gotten much too busy lately and I have already had some stales in the game. The big problem for me is that I did not want to go AI because I believe that I am a major power in the game. As far as I can tell from my scouts, only C'tis has a larger empire than me. I also have a huge army of over a thousand troops (nothing truly weak except for a few random militia) and lots and lots of mages, though it is spread all over the place. I have the three water queens fully outfitted, of course. Due to a lack of personal time to really spend the proper effort for my moves, I have just been biding my time in the game and fortifying every province. I did not want to commit to spending the time to enter into a major war because of my RL situation.

I also have a natural gem income of 147 per turn, not counting my few sea troll kings and clams and other sources. The gems are piling up and I am hard pressed to keep up with spending them due to a lack of time to invest. I probably also have several hammers on mages that are currently researching, as inevitably happens.

One of the things that really was bad for me was the programming error in the mod for clams. They were supposed to be 4W but came out 4F for unknown reasons. With my massive water income and the Malestorm up, I could be buliding clams towards wish with my 37+ water income. But converting water to astral to fire to make clams is ludicrous. I even feel this was not a good test of the mods because of this mistake. So all I can really do now with water gems is summon more sea trolls or maybe cast yet another global.

I also believe that the growth mod is way too much at 0.5% per level. With my growth 3, I have three provinces with about 70K population each and my income from these three places alone is 1535 gold per turn. I have so much gold pouring in (5K per turn now) that I am just recruiting Kings of the Deep randomly in various castles with barely a thought about what I should be doing with them. I am also building up towards 20 PD in EVERY SINGLE province (I am guessing I have about 50 provinces now), just for the heck of it.

Having said all that, I truly believe that the mods we are using in this game is certainly a step in the right direction. I summoned lots of troops that I have never summoned before. I have built some artifacts never before seen by me.

But I think that one of the problems with this test game is that the map is simply too big. It would be a better test on a smaller map with fewer players. Too many people have already quit or gone AI, which always happens on a gigantic map with 17 players. The game will certainly never be finished.

Keep me informed about the game situation, and if anybody wants to inherit a powerful nation on turn 68 on a much-too-large map, then let me know and I will gladly give it up.

Re: Attention Crash
 

The forums are at www.quartertothree.com, thread for the game is in the "Games" section (go figure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

I agree with your assessment: map too big, some stuff still a little unbalanced (like growth scale).

Interest in the game for the remaining players seems high still. I have taken over Ctis, Huz now controls Vanheim.

It is a LOT of work, I admit. I do not spend more than half an hour - 45 minutes on my turns just so as to stay sane..

Re: Attention Crash
 

Panther,

I'm sorry about the mistake in the mod. I totally screwed up wrt. the Clams. Wrt. the growth scales 0.5% was too much I agree. I based it upon how long it would take one scale of growth to equal 1 scale of order ( 13.5 turns -- assuming 0 growth income which I *ahem* forgot to do ) which is too few turns.

Anyway if I can muster the energy for another game I think the next version will be better. Perhaps soapy will make the new game without me. The next mod is very similar to this one except growth was fixed to .3 all units were given at least 1 enc and life drain was removed.

But I don't know if I can spare 2 - 3 hours per turn again. No wait I'm quite positive that I can't. And it drives me insane, so that's right out. I do enjoy the early game though.