Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

If there is any way they can do it, I'm all for creating this type of feature. This is one thing the game seriously lacks, all the system seem to be the same to me. I don't feel the need to defend any particular system at all costs.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I agree. I think the one thing the game lacks is the impression that your empire is a living society, and not just a giant war factory.

<nostalgia>
Has anyone ever played Powermonger? It's an old old game on the amiga (it was by Bullfrog). In that game you really believed your armies were marching across a living, breathing world. There were villagers with names and houses and jobs, quietly going about their lives. I often felt guilty bringing war to such a beautiful and peaceful landscape. To start with anyway=-)
</nostalgia>

That's the kind of involvement I'd like to get from SEIV. Then I really would quit my job and play it all day.

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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I have a question on the use of re-building regional or empire capitals. If you are allowed to tear down and rebuild them as I have read in the thread, this would mean that anytime you saw an enemy fleet approach your capitol world, you could conceivably dismantle it in order to not take chance of losing and trigging civil war or just removing it from a hot spot to a quiet area. If this is the case then it defeats the purpose of being a trigger. In my opinion, once built they should remain unless they are destroyed or captured at which time you would be able to rebuild somewhere else at a cost and over period of turns. This way you have your trigger, but also when new one is built it increases happiness therefore there is some type of balance.

Raynor, you said you see coding problems, could you be a little more specific, maybe this would give us some ideas as to what and what not to use or look at. Also in your opinion could this be made easier as part of an Expansion Pack.

just some ideas mac

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

You should be allowed to move them but there should be a heavy penalty for doing so voluntarily, say all empire production is cut in half for 10 turns if you move your empire capitol.
I can believe there would be coding difficulties. Hopefully a simple approach can be taken and at least some portion of the idea can be implemented.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Wow over 100 Posts http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well I have lots to catch up on.

Raynor I to would like you to elaborate more on the coding difficulties. I emailed MM about the basic idea, and Aaron returned the email the next day asking for more details so they could consider adding it to an expansion pack. I haven't sent the details yet becasue we are still ironing them out.

Taera there is an overview that should be near the top off the thread.

capt_spoogy why not a full blown empire?

Now to clear up some issues. How about if captured planets have a fixed amount of turns to "get settled" and don't effect the trigger number. The same with planets that have been hit by intel. Have a recovery period where you could settle the pops down. After that period then those planets would be counted toward the trigger.

Dogscoff I like your idea with a few modifications. Yes capitals should be facilities, but I don't think they should be able to be srapeed. It starts on your Homeworld and stays there until it's destroyed. If they would be allowed to be scrapped then that would carry a large penelty in production and happiness. I also agree that regional caps should only be allowed on large populated planets according to the size of the empire.

If MM would implement this and other ideas I'm sure it would go through an arduous beta testing period before it's released.

Yes I aslo agree it would add importance to systems and planets. This would add more feel to the game as well as realism and personality.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I think that adding Govenrment facilities a GREAT idea.
It would create valuable territory, something you would have to protect at all costs. That is missing from the game right now. Every system is as unimportant as any other. If you lose it, go take it back later, you've only lost the production and facilities. Lose your capitol and your whole empire suffers. There should be more facilities along those lines, provincial government buildings that affect the entire system, regional buildings the affect all connected systems, etc. This is one change that, on a scalce of 1 -10, would be a 20!

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I do like the idea of regional / imperial capitals, but I don't think they should be implemented as facilities.

I don't like the idea that you can just build / scrap them at will. Also, what happens when you lose your imperial capital?
Logically, your next biggest regional capital would take over that role, but the facility implmentation does not allow that.

I suggested having capitals not as facilitis but as "cities". Every planet has one, and it grows automatically according to things like population, facilities on planet, proximity to warp points.

One city in each heavily populated system would be the regional capital, and there would be an imperial capital as well.

It's all written out in more detail in my other post: posted 5th April, 12:10 on this thread.(Currently on page 5.)

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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Not sure if anyone has discussed this yet since I may have missed a few Posts in this topic. But recently some people suggested tying ships to the world of their construction, so that if a planet rebels ships that are crewed with population from the planet would join the rebellion. I have a suggestion on that topic and a question.

Suggestion:
Perhaps crews should have a loyalty rating?
I'm not sure how in depth people would want this to be, but I think it could sort of be like happiness for ships, maybe. Highly trained crews might be more loyal, not sure if this would necessarily be the case. Also particpating/witnessing losing battles and stalemates should drop the loyalty rating. A highly loyal crew would not join a rebellion, and of course a not so loyal crew would. In the middle ground you could have the possibility of mutiny and shipboard combat as the crew factions battle it out for control of the ship. I don't know if people would like this because it may be too detailed to implement in SEIV, maybe this should be something that ought to be considered in SE V instead.

My question is what should we do with ships with Master Computers. Since an MC can gain experience and "learn," I look at them more as AI's then something like an expert system. I'm not sure how sentient an MC would be, would it have beliefs and loyalties? Would the controlling empire consider the possibility of an MC/AI revolting and program/build in restrictions and safeguards?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

To be honest I nver liked the idea of the master computer component, although I don't really know why. I guess it's because shows like B5, Trek, Farscape would be far less interesting if they had no crew=-)

I'd be quite happy to see a Version of SE with no master computers at all. At the very least they should be unable to gain experience, giving the player a reason to continue using live crews once MC had ben developped.

BTW chewy - you seem to have misread my post. I am AGAINST the idea of gov centres as facilities, largely because you shouldn't be able to scrap them.

Perhaps we should vote on this:
PLease select either
a> Government centres (regional and imperial) should be implemented as facilities.

b> Government centres (regional and imperial) should be implemented, but NOT as facilities.

c> Don't implement them at all. Find some other way to have civil wars.

We don't want to hear from those ppl who don't want civil wars at all;-)
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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 12 April 2001).]

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

BTW chewy - I think you misread my post, I am AGAINST implementing gov. centres as facilitis, for the same reasons as you.

I think we should have a quick vote:

A> Implement imperial / regional government centres as facilities.

B> Implement them but NOT as facilities.

C> Don't implement them at all, find another way to start civil wars.

D> Who cares? Shut up. Leave me alone. Jeez.


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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

A

Dogscoff I didn't misread your post I was just proposing some modifications to the idea. But I do agree that they shouldn't be able to be scrapped http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif And I like the that they have to be on planets with high pop depending on the size of the empire.

jc173 How about if each rebelling planet has a influencing radius. Then every ship in that radius has a chance (some %) to revolt. If the ship has high experience it's less likely to revolt. And if the ship is from one of the revolting planets then it's more likely to revolt.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Oops. Sorry about that Chewy. I vote B BTW.

Do you think gov centrs should b decided on population alone? I'd like to see other things taken into account, firstly for realism, and secondly because high- popullation planets are already high priority.

I would suggest taking the following things into account whn deciding upon a planet's suitability for being a government centre/ homeworld:
Spaceports, construction yards, resupply depots, other commerce generating facilities.
Population density / racial diversity.
Proximity to warp points, colonised planets & moons.
Security of system (ie near enemy space, military presences, history of local conflict)
Age of colony.

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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

A, (my 2cents), that way there would be a use for the 'palace' function that is in the background of the game. Now I don't know if this has been discussed b4 (just 'skimmin' the Posts) but back when I played CIV I this function was used every so often. The French had gobbled up the Zulu turns and turns b4 but when I took their capital the French Empire suddenly split into loyal Frenchmen and Zulu's who took over their previous cities and re-established their place in the game. Civil war could work like that, (say the EEE who disappeared years ago finally reappear in the confusion of their 'slavemasters' capital falling, their 'underground rebellion' and 'sympathizers' finally win out.)..
Just thoughts........(GREAT ideas by the way, love reading this thread http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif)

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I don't think the idea will add any fun to the game. It seems like the planet-stealing intel stuff is already bad enough, I can't imagine ever continuing a game after half--or any significant fraction--of my ships and planets just get up and leave. To be perfectly honest, I'd much rather have a random event that instantly wipes out ALL of my planets and ships, and eliminates me from the game completely.

And who would something like this affect? Most likely it's going to hurt the person who is already on the losing end of a war, which makes it that much harder once you fall behind to try to catch up. IMO it will just make losing that much more torturous.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Deathstalker Civ is where I got this idea from http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Serpwidgets I disagree with the fact that the person loosing the war will be the one who this happens to. In fact this could be an advantage to the weaker opponent. Locate their Homeworld, then make a wormhole to that system. Then send in your fleet and catch um off guard. Now you guys are even.

And why do you think that if you go through a civil war you are doomed to loose. Wouldn't that give some spice to the game. If you are dominating the game and no one can stand up to you, but all of a sudden one of the triggers is activated, then there you will find your new challenge.

What do you think? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

The idea like the most from this thread is the creation of capitols and the importance they would add to protecting them. If this can be added I would not mind the other stuff being left out, although the civil war would be nice if it is made an optional choice.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Just because the civil war is put into the game, 1- does not mean you will lose, or that it will in fact happen. its based on a number of triggers, of which you would be able to guard against. Keeping pop happy, building pacification centers, increaseing your counter intel, etc. 2- also if it is made an option those who don't want to use it wouldn't have to or they could try it and see if they like it. Balance has to be struck for any changes in the game. Civil war would require some type of balance so some of the things talked about wouldn't happen. It depends on the player to keep his people in line. It doesn't mean that it will happen every game or on a continuous basis. It would be determined by triggering factors which you could guard against and if you don't ..... It also makes intel operations even more important in the game.

Just some ideas Mac

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Actually, Palace is listed in the abilities file, but I don't think it used in the game.


[This message has been edited by Dracus (edited 12 April 2001).]

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Nitram Draw it sounds like you like the idea so why don't you go vote http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Mac5732 I agree wholehartedly with everything you siad. I've been trying to convince all the skeptics out there of those same points http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

"It also makes intel operations even more important in the game."

It seems like intel is already way too powerful in the game as it is. From what I've read, it's possible to take over entire empires very quickly with intel.

I really don't like the way most of these games do intel, where for some reason you can take over ships and planets that there is no way anyone in your empire could even reach them (such as being 15 jumps away behind a huge strand of black holes, etc.) I had that type of problem with BOTF, too, where I was destroying facilities on an enemy planet I've never even heard of, and it's not even on my map.

I don't mean to knock the idea, I think it's very well thought out and quite cool and realistic. I just prefer the exploring/wargaming aspect as opposed to empire management, and don't particularly enjoy the additional micromanagement that it would entail. I play with intel and random events turned off, and I'd play with this turned off, too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Serp you really think it would add that much more micromanagement? I mean keep your pops happy and defend your capital. How much more is that?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

chewy, you're driving me nuts. Stop using BTY as an abbreviation for By The Way. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

One problem that I see is that, as envisioned, you would need to keep your pop happy to prevent rebellions. This doesn't leave any room for the "ruthless dictator" style of leadership. A lot of empires have Lasted for a long time without the people being happy.

"Fear will keep them in line. Fear of this battlestation."

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

You could still be ruthless just use unarmed troop garrisons, pacification centers etc.

OK I'll stop using BTY. But it was fun while it Lasted :P

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

updated 11 times

Just so anyone who is new to this post doesn't have to go all the way to the back, here is a summary of what has been discussed and suggested for the Civil War idea. If you are a regular Subscriber to this thread than please skim it once to make sure I didn't miss anything. I have tried to give credit to everyone for their ideas.

Also, check just below this overview for the current discussions

First Point -- The original idea was to have an empire be able to split into two empires if the homeworld was captured. It was later suggested by Str8_Gain that if the empire is
big enough than it could split into more than two. The rebelling factions would use the same shipstyle as the empire they broke off from except with different ship and flag colors. -Lucanos Also, this feature could be toggled on or off in the game setup in case you don't like it .-Mac5732 and others And if you start with more than one planet only one would be the Homeworld instead of all of them. -Trachmyr and Dathstalker


Second Point -- Many things have been discussed as to what should trigger the civil war. Here they are.

1 If your homeworld/galactic capital gets captured or destroyed. This would automatically cause a percentage of your empire (depending on your size) to break off and form a new empire. This is the way it's handled in the Civ games.

2 If your regional capital gets captured or destroyed then a percentage of that system would break away.

Note: if you defened the planets with the capitals on them very well, then you could avoid triggers one and two. Also, triggers 1 and 2 would not be influenced by happiness.

3 Happiness trigger: If 4 or more planets at a single time are rioting throughout the empire and they are within close proximity to eachother then the happiness trigger would go into effect. This trigger would follow a rule set similar to the ones posted below. If you keep your pops happy, you don't have to worry about this trigger.

4 if you become the MEE then after a set amount of turns you split unless you are a
bloodthirsty society. -Baal
(this trigger is not liked by all, give us your opinion)


Third Point -- Many rule sets have been suggested as to how the happiness trigger should be implemented. Here are snips of some suggestions (they are pretty long)

from Trachmyr's post

1) It would start with the same event that causes a planet to break away and become a neutral.

2) After one planet "breaks away", then each other planet in the system is checked to
see if they join... All Rioting/angry planets join 100% of the time, unhappy/Displeased planets join 50% of the time, Indiffrent planets join 25% of the time (happier planets do not join).

NOTE: Your HOMEWORLD will never join, but captured Homeworlds are 25% more likly to
join.

3) It is now determined if the new empire will be a neutral or a FULL empire... If the
planets have a shipyard and have a Empire Score of say 20K (This should be changeable
in setting.txt) or perhaps the empire is worth at least 10% of the original empire (again changeable), then the Empire is a FULL empire... if not, it is only a neutral.

4) If the new empire is a Full Empire, then more "checks" are made. All adjacent systems
are now checked, at the same %'s as above... if atleast 1 planet converts, then that
system is claimed by the new empire, and all systems adjacent to that one is checked...
so, on and so forth... if happiness is low then it could spread across your entire empire.

5)As for ships that join the new empire, only vessels in systems that now have planets of the new empire have a chance to convert. All ships in the same sector as a planet,retain the loyalty of that planet... ships in sectors with out planets have a chance to convert equal to: (# of planets converted in system) out of (# of planets loyal + # of
planets converted).

from dmm's post

1a) Your home planet should never rebel. That's just silly.

2a) Minor planets should be unlikely to start a rebellion. Riot, yes. Rebel, no. HOWEVER, ifthere is a major planet nearby that has rebelled, then they might JOIN the rebellion.

3a) Planets should not rebel if they are happy. Happy people don't rebel.

4a) The ruling species is unlikely to rebel. They are in power; why revolt and risk being
taken over by aliens?

5a) Planets that are close to the homeworld and/or have been part of the empire for a
long time are less likely to rebel.

6a) Planets that are economically dependent on the rest of the empire are less likely to
rebel. For instance, a planet with nothing but mines is less likely to rebel than a planet with balanced resource development and a shipyard.

1b) Former homeworlds of other empires should be more likely to rebel.

2b) Major planets (larger, more pop, better resources, more facilities) are more likely to be centers of rebellion.

3b) Unhappy planets should be more likely to rebel.

4b) Planets with a sizeable majority of an out-of-power species should be susceptible to
rebellion, even if the empire is treating them well. (Populating planets with captured
species would then carry a long-term risk to go along with the benefits.)

5b) Natural barriers like asteroid systems and black holes would encourage rebellion.
Being on the empire's periphery would encourage rebellion. Being newly acquired or newly colonized would encourage rebellion.

6b) Another empire nearby that presents good trading opportunities would make a planet
more likely to rebel, especially if there were no trade agreement in place.

from Mac5732's post

planet goes to rioting, then complete civil
disobedience, then insurrection. At insurrection, each turn increases the possibility of rebellion for that planet by increments of 5% accumulative. When it finaly does rebel, all planets in that system, no matter who they belong to drop 1 attitude from their current status and they in turn drop 1 attitude for say every 3 turns, until rebelling world is either re-taken or they in turn rebel and join the rebellion which in turn could creat a new system wide empire...

from chewy027' post

if x planets are rioting and they are at least adjacent to one other rioting planet's system, then the civil war trigger is pulled. Depending on the happiness of the other planets the revolt could spread throughout the empire.

some other ideas brought up

1 if you do a PPP intel project to more than one planet at a time than then those planets
will break off and and start their own full blown empire together. -Director Tsaarx

2 if the planet a conquered empire is on rebels then the rest of the conquered planets go along and reform their empire with their original racestyle. -Str8_Gain

3 if a player goes around glassing planets the people become very unhappy unless they
are bloodthirsty. -Baal
This would involve a new line in the happiness.txt -Trachmyr

4 two new facilities the palace/galactic capital, and the regional capital would be
implemented. -Magus38
The planet the regional cap facility was built on would act as a system capital. Likewise the galactic capital acts as the entire empires cap planet.

5 Their would only be one Homeworld/Capital colony type with a palace/galactic capital
on it if you start the game with more than one planet. The rest would be other colony
types.And the minimum pop for a galactic capital is 2000M -Deathstalker, Trachmyr, and
Mac5732

6 planets and moons orbiting aroung them have an equal chance to revolt. Just because a moon joins the other side doesn't mean the planet is, and vice versa - Puke

7 the happiness facilities would be tweaked as well as adding maybe one or two more
levels of happiness. This would help balance the happiness trigger. -Mac5732

8 once you build a regional cap facility you can't move it without a penalty to production or happiness. The galactic cap begins on the homeworld and stays there until it is destroyed.

Final thought -- Sorry this was so long but I figure it's better than going all the way to the beginning. If there is anything I missed please post in this thread and I will add it to this post.

As new ideas/suggestions are added I will upgrade this overview .

Thanks Chewy027

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I have created a new thread entitled Poll/Vote for the civil war feature. I think it would go a long way if everyone who has put so much imput into this idea would take the small amount of time to visit there and cast a vote. Even if you just read this thread for the first time stop on over and tell us what you think.

It would also be a great show of support (if we get a positive response) to MM that evryone really likes this idea.
So get on over there and excercise your SE4 given right to vote. You don't even have to be 18 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Thank you in advance for your time http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

current average rating = 7 after 32 votes

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

A few people have stated that the civil war would be unbalancing, I thought about it and I really can't understand why it would be unbalancing. In fact from, my point of view, it would add balance to the game.

So why is it unbalancing?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chewy027:
A few people have stated that the civil war would be unbalancing, I thought about it and I really can't understand why it would be unbalancing. In fact from, my point of view, it would add balance to the game.

So why is it unbalancing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mainly, it is unbalancing because it gives the human player such a huge advantage over the already struggling AI. The human player would *always* attack the AI's homeworld, wouldn't they? But the computer doesn't yet have the ability to target mineral-rich systems much less the capital system.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Raynor wouldn't that be an easy hardcode change though. Insert something that tells the AI to seek out and destroy the Homeworld. I really don't know much about programming, but it seems like it would be easy.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

From what I can determine, the AI offense fleets only attack enemy colonies in systems they have claimed. And the AI only claims systems adjacent to its colonies.

So... it would require a very, very large change in the code for the AI just to attack a system non-adjacent to one of its own systems much less attack a system that is far removed from its colonies.


[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 16 April 2001).]

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Well couldn't you at least tell the AI to attack the system capital?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chewy027:
Well couldn't you at least tell the AI to attack the system capital?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No... this would require some pretty complex enhancements to the AI. It seems like the AI only sends its attack fleets to contested systems with(without?) enemy colonies in them. These systems become contested systems because they are adjacent to other AI systems. I don't think the AI knows how to attack enemy systems that aren't contested. In fact, I've seen AI empires send ships *through* my system to get to some mustering point without stopping to attack completely undefended planets.

Before you tell the AI to attack a system far removed from its borders, a logical first step would be to teach it to attack nearby enemy systems that aren't yet claimed/contested. Once you do that, then you can think about teaching it to assign them different values and attack the ones that are worth more strategically. After that, you could think about teaching the AI to use resupply ships/bases to explore a level further (in terms of warp points) and assign strategic values to those systems as well. Eventually, you might be able to show the AI how to assign a strategic value to every enemy system and determine which enemy should receive the brunt of the attack based upon strategic value. Then, and only then, you might be able to tell the AI that the capital has a very great value. Even still, it would be somewhat complicated telling the AI that one enemy homeworld four defended warp points away is a better target than a mineral rich system belonging to the same or a different enemy just one undefended warp jump away.

Hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
No... this would require some pretty complex enhancements to the AI. It seems like the AI only sends its attack fleets to contested systems with(without?) enemy colonies in them. These systems become contested systems because they are adjacent to other AI systems. I don't think the AI knows how to attack enemy systems that aren't contested. In fact, I've seen AI empires send ships *through* my system to get to some mustering point without stopping to attack completely undefended planets.

Before you tell the AI to attack a system far removed from its borders, a logical first step would be to teach it to attack nearby enemy systems that aren't yet claimed/contested. Once you do that, then you can think about teaching it to assign them different values and attack the ones that are worth more strategically. After that, you could think about teaching the AI to use resupply ships/bases to explore a level further (in terms of warp points) and assign strategic values to those systems as well. Eventually, you might be able to show the AI how to assign a strategic value to every enemy system and determine which enemy should receive the brunt of the attack based upon strategic value. Then, and only then, you might be able to tell the AI that the capital has a very great value. Even still, it would be somewhat complicated telling the AI that one enemy homeworld four defended warp points away is a better target than a mineral rich system belonging to the same or a different enemy just one undefended warp jump away.

Hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And after doing all that Aaron would probably win a Nobel price. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

OK I see your point. So obviously a patch possibility is ruled out. But what about an expansion? Would this be feasible for that?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Personally, I don't see why losing a Homeworld is likly to start a civil war! Ok, happiness might drop... and the nation would either be demoralized or Pi$$ed off... either way they would do it as a whole. Maybe I'm missing something, but just because civ did it... dosen't mean that it was right/realistic. If you want some special event for a conquered Homeword, the the AI should immediatly check to see if it surrenders... otherwise it's anger should go through the roof!

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

OK Trachmyr. I could see your point if your talking about a civilized nation. But lets take an African country for example. If ther seat of govt would be destroyed suddenly, who knows how many rebel Groups would pop up and try to claim control. Now take that concept and put it in space. If a center of govt 20 million lightyears away is destroyed don't you think the outlying colonies or even the core worlds would have rebelling factions that arise? In my opinion tht is the way it would be. They'd want to break off and start their own empire. And the more planets that join them the better chance they have. Thus a civil war would break out.

Thoughts?

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Please excuse me if this has been suggested before but this thread is getting real long and I'm getting lazy in my old age.
Perhaps there should be an intermediate step before civil war, a period of civil disorder. If the conditions for civil war are met then all of a specific systems planets begin to riot. If after a random period of time, say sometime between 1 and 2 years, the rioting isn't stopped then the system rebels. If this could be implemented then at least you would have some warning of a rebellion.
If possible all positive happiness modifiers should be negated during the civil disobedience time except those caused by troops and ships.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I like it but maybe instead of 1 to 2 years have it as 5 turns or .5 years. Even so if the Homeworld is captured or destroyed there would be immediate war. But that could work for the happiness trigger.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chewy027:
OK Trachmyr. I could see your point if your talking about a civilized nation. But lets take an African country for example ... Thoughts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here's a thought: I think you just offended an entire continent-worth of people.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Nitram Draw , earlier in thread it was suggested that levels would be added to go from Rioting to complete civil disobedience and then to insurrection. The longer a planet was in insurrection the more chance of rebellion and etc.

DMM , in regards to ruthless govt's, the happiness is based on each individual Race's racial traits similiar to present game. I.E. some races would drop due to treaties, others would not, some drop due to war or losing battles, others don't, and so on, losing your home world & govt. center would have a large effect on your pop. Maybe we should change to word happiness to
racial attitudes, therefore even with a ditatorship type govt. specific events would still trigger attitude changes among the pop to the point where they want to over throw the govt and install a new one, & the longer the attitude remains at that or a lower level
the higher the chance of revolt.

just some ideas Mac

PS. (chewy congrats on your promotion) mac

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

dmm sorry dodn't mean to offend anyone, it's just that the African political climate is always changing and that was the first place to come to mind. Maybe instead of saying civilized I meant stable. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...s/confused.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

OK, good save! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
I knew you didn't mean any harm; just tweakin' ya.
BTW, have you stopped using BTY? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
[edit: oops, I see that you have!]

[This message has been edited by dmm (edited 18 April 2001).]

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

yes dmm I stopped using BTY just for you http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

I have created a new thread entitled Poll/Vote for the civil war feature. I think it would go a long way if everyone who has put so much imput into this idea would take the small amount of time to visit there and cast a vote. Even if you just read this thread for the first time stop on over and tell us what you think.

It would also be a great show of support (if we get a positive response) to MM that evryone really likes this idea.
So get on over there and excercise your SE4 given right to vote. You don't even have to be 18
Thank you in advance for your time

current average rating = 6.8 after 35 votes

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

It must be time to tie up these ideas and post them off to MM for consideration.

I like the different levels of upsetness &lt; that's not a word I think&gt;, maybe that's a better way to go than whole sale changes such as losing half your empire to an event. A whole system should go at once though, not just one planet, including any ships in the system.

Nice thread!

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

To defend my point of view that capturing a capital shouldn't create civil war, I must point out in your (not so pc http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif) scenario chewy, you were talking about a seat of power being deystroyed. Ok, I see your point... maybe if the capital was glassed. But if it was captured by another empire, either the rebels would join the conquerors or they would Rebel against the conquerors... not their own empire, they've got other things to worry about. As far as glassing a capital, it should lower happiness system wide (and if happiness will be a trigger for civil war, then it will do just what you want it to... just not automatically and EVERY time), and perhaps all production is cut by a third until a new capital is built.

Oh well, that's my 1/50th of a buck.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

To defend my point of view that capturing a capital shouldn't create civil war, I must point out in your (not so pc http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif) scenario chewy, you were talking about a seat of power being deystroyed. Ok, I see your point... maybe if the capital was glassed. But if it was captured by another empire, either the rebels would join the conquerors or they would Rebel against the conquerors... not their own empire, they've got other things to worry about. As far as glassing a capital, it should lower happiness empire wide (and if happiness will be a trigger for civil war, then it will do just what you want it to... just not automatically and EVERY time), and perhaps all production is cut by a third until a new capital is built.

Oh well, that's my 1/50th of a buck.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Trachmyr as I figure it, loosing your capital would cause massive unhappiness, so as you said many planets probably would riot. Having them split automatically is just another way of doing it. Just to add more importance to the capital.

Aussie I did send in a copy of the latest overview of this thread. Does anyone think more than that should be sent in? Also, does anyone think I should send the vote results in?

Feedback requestd

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Yes I would send in the votes...

P.S. If "capital status" is attached to a building, what happens if the building is deystroyed via "natural Disaster" or by orbital bombardment w/o the attackes actually winning or by intell projects...

Perhaps a compromise is to cause loss of happiness, and do an immediate check to see if civil war occurs... but not automatic!

Sorry, just hitting the equine carcass.

Re: Intergalactic Civil War !!??
 

Well I was kinda thinking that the galactic cap would be immune to intell and natural disaster. But if that couldn't be done then yeah there should be a reduction in happiness. As for the orbital bombardment maybe you could give it a Last facility destroyed trait. That would probably insure that whoever destroys it would also take the planet.

And I will send the vote results in. Thanks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif