Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Dominions 3 is basically Dominions 2 supercharged, so if you prefer the Total War games to Dominions 2, I don't see why you're even asking the question. Skip Dominions 3 and buy the next Total War game instead.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

MTW:2 is a historical wargame, Dominions 3 is a fantasy game. That's a pretty big difference to begin with. I don't think we can directly compare the two.

In MTW you might get to control the units directly, but in Dominions 3 you have to carefuly plot the battles beforehand. You can't wring your way with what often are cheapo tactical exploits.

In MTW you have to deal with the Popet, Jihads, Briberies etc. In Dominions 3 you have to deal with unrelenting pretender gods.

In MTW you build crossbowmen. In Dominions 3 you build some crossbowmen and some sacred flagellants that can be Blessed, and then you recruit a With Hunter who can cast magic and use priest spells to lead them...you also summon some Fire Drakes as support, and put a gem on the witch hunter so he can cast Flame Arrows to support the crossbowmen. All the while when your enemy will be massing Pale Ones who are tragicaly weak to arrows but he will also bring some Longdead chaff that are however weak to Banishment your Witch Hunter can use...

In MTW you recruit assasins and get heirs. In Dominions 3 you recruit mages and you have to carefuly think where you can use their skills, in or out of battle, will you research Construction spells or Evocations. Or will you instead build some priests to spread your Dominion and banish undead monster. Or perhaps you will recruit a mage and appoint him as your Prophet.

In MTW you pick on of the historical countries and then LOL as your king racks up funny vices. In Dominions you pick one of uncommon fantasy empires it has such as undead with Roman flavour or Indian inspired civilization. Then you design a pretender god who has his or her own weaknesses and effects on the land and how your sacred units will be blessed. Then you LOL as your pretender racks up afflictions, Curse, Horror Marks and such unless you are careful.

And so on. The differences are huge. It's a matter of taste which you will prefer in the end. I've never enjoyed MTW as much as I enjoy Dominions. Perhaps you are my opposite in this respect. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Limited features??!! :

* Turn-based fantasy 4X gaming with up to twenty-one (AI or human) players using simultaneous turns.
* Still an amazing amount of player choices in one turn: recruit, research, empowerment, forge, rituals, magic battles, search, prayers, blood hunt, luck, assassinations, friendly movement, movement, storm castle, enchantments, magic items, sneak, build, special orders, income, starvation, upkeep, dominion, site effects, heal, mercs, and scouting.
* Three different eras: Early Magical Era, Middle Era, and Late Era. The Early Magical Era boasts many new nations, the Middle Era features most of the nations from Dominions 2, and the Late Era features an emphasis on more conventional warfare and less magic.
* Fifty different playable nations. Some of the new nations include Ermor, New Faith, based on the early Republic of Rome. Marverni, inspired by Gallic tribes. Kailasa, Rise of the Ape Kings, inspired from Indian and Hindu mythology. Jomon, Human Daimyos, born from ancient Japan.
* Brand new graphics, with an overhauled and streamlined interface. Transparent mechanics decreases
the learning curve.
* Less micromanagement than previous Dominions titles.
* Random map creation.
* Players can design and save gods for later play.
* Map filters now allow players to easily locate scouts.
* Nation specific spells and summons. More than 600 spells and 300 magic items, all with evocative descriptions, are found in the game.
* Rebalanced rates for income, supply, and resources enable larger conventional armies.
* 1500+ units to wage war with. A deep combat model encompasses everything from battlefield morale to the use of magic.
* An already challenging AI made even more challenging. If you can't handle the unrelenting computer player, you can always try your hand at playing against humans with Dominions 3 robust multiplayer suite.
* Much more powerful modding capabilities.
* Make and remake nations as you see fit!
* Still present, the cool ability to turn any image into a map! Battle across Faerún or Middle Earth!
* Choose if your pretending god is dormant or awake when the game begins.
* New music from Erik Ask Uppmark and Anna Rynefors, the duo behind Dominion 2's lilting musical score.
* Taxes and unrest automatically checked through the autotax function, streamlining play.
* Playable on most major operating systems. Play it on a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine.
* Dominions 3: The Awakening could very easily be the last fantasy 4X game you ever need.

GM12

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Not to mention units can rack up afflictions from battle or old age, get insane etc etc etc. So much features... >:3

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Let's set aside for a moment that all of the tactics you mention are present in the game, albeit not always as a simple button that you press. We're not here to convince you that Dom3 is a "better" game. As I said, it's apples and oranges and I'd laugh off anyone who tried to sell me Civilization on the premise that it was a "better" game than Dominions.

Play the demo. See if you think it's worth the price. If it is, I'll play a game with you and talk it over here. If not, then perhaps you'll have better luck with M2.

Cheers either way.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Among the more obvious differences are the heavy multiplayer and the pre-battle formations and scripting (think about it: tactical battles do not make sense in a 21-player game).

There are a *lot* of battlefield tactics which emerged for D2, many of which required significant preparation to be able to use in terms of mage selection, troop selection, magic items, and research, in addition to the obvious pre-battle assignment of orders and unit placement. Hell, there's everything from mass-exploding (Phoenix Pyre'd) reinvigorating Communicants to flying armies and storm/lightning-zapping the battlefield, to mass enslavement and super-combatants.

In terms of strategic depth, there's supply contraints (including a high-level abstraction of supply lines through the fortress contribution traced through friendly provinces), -substantial- research that offers lots of variety...

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

OK let me ask this question then and thanks for all of the input... Does the game essentially come down to (like in Dom2) wipe out all of the opponents to be the victor, OR is there other win options you can accomplish (i.e. Control 50 provinces which must include provinces x, y and Z...) plus the ability to enter into diplomatic relations with other nations/gods in an attempt to subvert their or other gods powers (i.e. making a deal of say "ok I'll open trade with you IF you go to war and begin attacking this other nation), stuff like that or does it largely come down to just wipe out the opposition?

Edit: Essentially what I am inquiring is this, does it esentially come down, like Dom2 to a brute force type game?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

There's other win options, at least in Dom 2 there was.

If I remember correctly these options were:
- Total conquest OR victory by eradicating all enemy Dominion
- Research victory
- Victory through control of victory points
- Victory through dominion
- Victory through getting a certain number of provinces

And the victory conditions don't exclude each other, you could eradicate everybody in a research victory game and win.

You can't enter diplomatic relations. If this a game breaker for you, then it is.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I don't think there is a game similar to Dominions. The only thing I can see MTW and Dom3 having in common is the fact that you spend your turn moving on the strategy map, then have a battle at the end of it. But then, the same thing can be said of Rise of Nations or Cossacks 2, and both are radically different from total war.

One thing to consider though - since Shrapnel are unlikely to lower the price, it makes sense to get Dom3 now. Not only is MTWII likely to be half price in the January sales, but your likely to be able to pick it up with the inevitable expansion for less than you'll pay on day of release.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

The victory conditions have existed since DomII (control 50 provinces, control 3 spesific provinces, etc), but they currently can't be combined (control at least 50 provinces AND 3 spesific provinces). That would be a nice addition, though.

There is some really simple diplomatic-style stuff (e.g. if you have strong forces where an AI can see, he's less likely to attack you), but winning the games under the settings most often used fall down to conquering provinces, with armies, mages and/or ritual spells.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Might be noted that if you're playing at extremes in the dominions scale or there's a big difference in temples / preaching / Skeptics, it's possible for the dominion leader to not be the leader in military power.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Someone has previously posted that this time, cumulative victory point conditions are supported. IE, if 4 provinces have a single VP each, and 100 cumulative VPs are required, holding all 4 provinces for 25 turns would win; holding 1 for 100 turns would also win, if no one else accumulated VPs as quickly.

Expect it'll add quite a bit of strategic considerations, not to mention helping to propel a much quicker game pace. Currently, games get into wars of attrition - if 3 nations remain, each with 12 VPs, and 30 are required to win, the game situation can get stagnant, and could still continue another 100 turns with no winner in sight.

With cumulative VP condition, every turn someone has VP provinces brings the game nearer to the conclusion, and can force attacks : I have 12 VPs, he only has 10, _but_ he only needs 19 VP points to win and I need 25. If I don't take some of his VPs _now_, he wins.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well, my thread has been hijacked lol and I think we've hammered this beast to death. Thank you all for the discussion and handling an opposing viewpoint in a mature way. I'm still not entirely sold but I'm definitely more open to the possibility of paying a little extra for a good, niche game if it's worth it. I'll just try the demo when it gets released and make an informed decision then. If anything I hope this thread has made the upper brass at Shrapnel rethink their business model, if even for a second, because in my opinion (and as ill-informed as that may be) a niche game only reaches a niche market if you let it. With the Dominions series there is much room for growth.

Cheers.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

How can you compare Doms 3. with M2TW?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
These games are totally different.
Btw I will buy M2TW also.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Wow....

That is all I can really say.

First, most of the battlefields in any of the TW games are not realistic based upon the scales that they are representing.

Second, commanders in any of the timeframes that TW models had very little effective control over their troops once the battle was joined, the only exception to this might have been Shogun.

Third, it still amazes me that people think that the battle results or the diplomacy in any of the TW series are realistic. I never had a game of TW where at anything on their most difficult level became anything OTHER than me against the world.

After the first Shogun, which really was a good game although there were plenty of "features" which ruined the game for me once it got to the end game, the other games in the series were not that great from a gameplay standpoint. They looked pretty, but I never played either R:TW or M:TW much after the first week.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I'd just be doing the reverse, fed up with TW, whose motto could be "more whizbang less interesting gameplay with each iteration" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif !

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Talleyrand: I say take a dive and buy it instead of trying the demo. Take your money's worth out of it and if you decide the game's not for you - sell it. I don't think you have any trouble getting rid of your copy, the retail price being on the high side.

That's what I did with Dominions:PPP. Well, except the part that I didn't want to get rid of it. They would've had to pry it out my cold, dead fingers to get my copy. Same thing with Dominions 2.

Oh, and you get a top community to go with your game.

It's just not the same with only a demo.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Part of the value (for me) that Dom3 comes with is multi-platformability without loss of features (iirc, Oblivion was "dumbed down" to accomadate the console people). Granted, I have other hobbies than computer gaming and do not have the most current knowledge of the computer gaming industry. However, I feel safe in thinking that Dom3 is in the vast, vast minority of games that get released with Win / Linux and Mac distributions at market release all in the same distribution. Dom2 even had a Solaris executable.

To this end, I bought Dom2 before being sure I liked it to support Linux gaming development. (Please don't tell KO that I am currently playing Dom2 on Windows... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

This multi-platformability is way more than the big manufacturers provide with their supposed bigger and better resources. And when the big mfg's do provide multi-platformability, they often force the consumer to buy a separate instance of the game for each platform. Why should I have to buy a separate copy of a game to play on my Linux machine when I already possess a license to run the game and will only be playing on the Linux machine xor the Windows machine? In this respect, multi-platformability, Dom3 has the bigger mfg's beat hands down.

I do agree that the pricing for Dom2 could have come down a bit, especially after Dom3 development was announced.

As for graphics, I want be able to play the game on my notebook, which does not have graphics upgradability. I got stiffed on this by Civ4. A turn-based strategy game, in my opinion, should at the very least have an "ugly mode" to allow for dated graphics cards. Civ4 has nowhere near the price per unit time spent playing value (for me) as games with limited replay such as the KOTOR series for just this reason.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I find it interesting that no one has really brought up the one aspect of the Dominions games that have made it such a long-running favorite with my buddies and me: the fact that we don't have to be on-line at the same time to play it.

Seriously -- my pals work different shifts (occasionally on different continents), and the ability to download the data from the server, plan out your turn on a bus or airplane somewhere and then upload it for the nightly turn-running is absolutely spectacular. There is no way that any significant number of us could get on-line daily and resolve a RTS-style battle... at least not on a long-term basis.

We've had Dominions games that have lasted months. Actually, I don't think we've had a game that has NOT lasted at least a month. We send elaborate messages to one another spelling out in horrific detail what we will do to someone's lawn if they even *think* about taking that coastal province from us, and on at least one occasion a $50 bottle of scotch was the bounty for a joint sneak-attack on Vanheim.

No way we could do that with a 'Total War' game.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I also cannot believe M:TW is being used as a comparison. I won't even go into how much the developers are screwing up THAT strategy game (although, now that I've read some of Tim's posts here, I can maybe see that they are trying to save their necks, financially), but I will mention the glaring fact that game doesn't even support strategic multiplayer. I will say this again, M:TW is not a multiplayer strategy game. Dominions is a very good single player game, but at the heart of it is a very, very, very good multiplayer strategy game.

By the way, when you get M:TW2 can you come here and discuss it some in an OT thread? I'm curious about that game, but not curious enough to shell out $$. I fear those developers missed their chance to cater to niche players and are forced to make their games more mainstream compliant with every succession.

=$=

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Where are you? Here in Canada, a lot of games are more expensive. USD 55 seems to be about an average price for the game, probably even a bit lower than average.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Ok, now try to add to it hours you'll spend playing it (using formula time=money). You'll probably see that Dominions actually costs you something in 5 digits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Talley,

Thanks for bringing this up, it was good to discuss this and let opposing views be heard. As Gandalf says, you can not expect to get much support on a forum associated with the game, but that does not mean your views do not have value.

I too will be waiting for the demo before making a decision.

On a lighter note, I know how Shrapnel can bring down their costs. Move the operation here to Kenya! We have very cheap labour, skilled computer and marketing people and an excellent postal system. And I can drive over and get a copy of Dom3, avoiding the shipping and handling costs…

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Do not try the demo!!!!
Afaik it is probably done in the same way as the Dom2-Demo, 40 turn limit, research limit at level 4, only a handful of nations playable etc. etc..

So in the demo Dominions doesn't really shine, because in the demo it feels not really different from other turn based games because of the limitations.
As an expert player you could of course do lots of tricks in these 40 turns, but if you are new and have never played Dom in MP you will simply play it like Homm or AoW and easily overlook that Dominions is much deeper than those games.

I think the dom2 demo is one of the 10 worst demos i ever played. The dom1 demo on the other hand was done extremely well imho.

This is only my subjective opinion though, but imho if the Dom3 demo is done like the Dom2 demo it will convince more ppl to not buy Dom3 as it convinces ppl to buy Dom3.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Dom1 demo was way too limitless. People would DL the demo and never bother with the full game.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Nah. Your best national mage was unpurchaseable, and research was capped at level 5.

Imho there was enough incentive left to buy the full version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

IMHO there wasn't.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Nah I think the Doms 2. demo was cool. It gave you nice examples about the final game content. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Personally I also wish it had more turns in it but I think the Dom3 demo is testable. It has the same limits as Dom2, but with added features such as the tutorial. We will need to see how well it does its job.

Oh and I agree that the Dom1 demo was abit too much playability but on the other hand thats not that unusual for a first-release game.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Ok the only thing I will say about the MP aspect is this... I, like ~95% of the strat gaming community, do not play MP (http://forums.stardock.com/?forumid=162&aid=98074), I would rather have challenging AI with deep gameplay and various ways to achieve the same goal (i.e. being able to play two different nations off against one another whil selling each weaponary and supplies, and then using the money they are paying me to get rebel nations/states to secretly come over to my side and hitting them both when they are at their weakest rather than just turtling up and focusing up on military domination, or research) and the like, and then if MP is thrown in on top of that cool. That's just me, and I am DLing the Dom3 demo to see if perhaps it may be something that I will enjoy, but given the depth of upcoming games (i.e. GalCivII Expansion, SEV, etc.) it is going to be hard justifying spending ~$77 for a game including shipping when I can purchase other games for cheaper in the stores themselves or buy online with a DL package.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Unless I install it on one of the boxes at work, in which case I start earning money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Mltdw,
Do you live in Tien Chi or such ? Dom3 delivery to Europe cost me less than 10 bucks, total should be < 65$ isn't it ??

First Thoughts
 

Playing a first game in the demo, I agree that the interface has seen a number of upgrades, and it definately looks like the new nations will once again provide lots of variety and play styles.

But - disappointments as well. You still can't see what afflictions a unit has without right-clicking it - many of us were hoping for mouseover information so we could quickly figure out which troops were crippled and which merely scratched, but instead it's the same micromanagement for wounded troops. You can't seem to hide researchers from the commanders as you could in Dom2 (hopefully this will be fixed via an early patch).

SP AI is still disappointing. Nations _still_ declare war on human players before they can possibly have seen them, and the AI is still very lacking in judgement. Watching a battle in which Abysia sends their prophet (simple Warlord) and 5 infantry against 60-70 barbarians led to very predictable results, as the barbarians killed all troops and quickly dispatched the heroic Prophet as he continued to Smite after all troops were gone.

So, once again it looks like a game only seriously played in MP mode. And it looks like it needs another Conceptual Balance right out of the gate, as many Pretender chassis's are once again unbalanced - for example, the Witch King still has 20 point magic paths, just like stock unmodded Dom2 where it was one of the handful of no-brainer pretenders.

Then there's the minor things, like it still defaulting to "Renaming Turned Off", when 99% of the MP games I've been in have wanted renaming on, and people posted time and again asking for this simple change, mostly after getting to turn 3-10 in an MP game and realizing with horror that renaming accidently didn't get turned on.

Suspect I'm still glad I ordered last night before the demo came out - but I'm not as delighted as I thought I would be.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

No in the US it is $15 for priority delivery (i.e. so you don't have to wait 1-2 weeks to get the game).

Re: First Thoughts
 

True, there could be some more features, but why don't you suggest them?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

In the US you do have the option to pay for USPS Express Mail. That service carries a money back guarantee to *most* locations. Be sure to check www.usps.com for guarantees to your specific zip code. And please remember the guarantee is for the time the shipment is in transit. Choosing express shipping does not impact when we ship the game.

Clearly, we recommend the FREE shipping option we offer. This service is USPS Priority Mail. While it does not carry a money-back guarantee, the vast majority are delivered in two days. A package we sent from North Carolina to California on Friday had been delivered on Monday. In fact, we have received word that packages we sent Friday to destinations in France and the UK were delivered yesterday. Those were sent USPS Global Priority Mail, not express.

These quotes from another thread in the forum from customers who chose our free shipping option: This one was posted yesterday, Wednesday) Hear the passion in my voice? Take advantage of the FREE shipping option in the US. In the past we've used all types of shippers. USPS by far has the most reliable service. Unless something extremely unusual happens, your order will reach you in two or three days from the time we ship (and remember the post office delivers on Saturday). And this service does not cost anything above the purchase price of the game. We don't send ANY of our shipments via the slower services offered by USPS.

(Perhaps I've been spending too much time in the fulfillment center this week...)

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Actually I've only played 1 game in the demo against the AI [the rest was MP], but the AI did very good. I've never seen such a huge AI army in a strategical position in Doms 2. Like I've said earlier, it moved ~700 troops to my border province, and it was the only land province in that area. I was fighting on south, so it was a ehm... a big surprise. That army easily took 2 of my provinces in the north. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif
The game just ended after that.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I dont find that the AI automatically declares war. I have played many games on really large maps with 78 AI's. I do not get war challenged on me by all of them early in the game so I dont think thats a true statement.

However.. I do find that the AI challenges based on your dominion touching his, his scouts seeing you (and some scouts fly), or seeing you by spells.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Gandalf, since you are mainly playing SP games, let me ask you. Have you seen such huge AI armies in your games so far, what I've seen in my game today? Basically it worked like this:

First I've seen like 120 enemy troops. 1 turn later their number was 420 if I remember correctly. 1 more turn, and the number was 700. Then all of the 700 troops began to invade me from north, and my 2 main armies were on the south. The game ended 2 turns after the AI took 2 of my provinces at north. Maybe I was just lucky that I've seen such an action from the AI, but seriously, it was like a human player. First he gathered tons of troops in 3 turns, while my armies were far away, then it began to steamroll me from there. I only had 2 minor armies up there, since I was attacked from 2 directions at south, I had to focus my power there.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Ive seen armies in the thousands. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But definetly the new gold-rich Dom3 game is going to take some getting used to. And some of the AI settings definetly require that you put some thinking to breaking up his large armies as they are building up.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

wow nice, when I get my copy, my first game will be against a couple of impossible AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I've been playing with various aggressive/defensive AI's, and well, the aggressive ones do declare war on you quickly. Like I would hope. One thing new that I've seen (probably due to the prevalance of more relatively powerful priests) is that the AI likes to take at least a couple priests into battle every time. This makes skelly spamming alot less viable, and they always have a source of magic damage for those few tanks you may field. It makes for some exciting magic battles at times.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I did see huge armies in Dom 2 as well... but the ones in Dom 3 seem more likely to have heavy use of national troops, rather than generic militia / slingers / et al. I've also been dealing with more assassination attempts.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Eh - given that Aby declared war on turn 4, and I eventually found there were 8 provinces between our capitols, I'm quite certain that none of those were the case. Abysia isn't known for scrying spells, has no flying scouts other than a solitary hero, and our dominions had no time to even think about touching. Meanwhile, there was only 2 provinces between Ermor's start and I, but he never declared war.

The only remotely plausible explanation is that Abysia started with the Warlike / Offensive AI personality - but it's still crazy (and not in a good way) for AIs to declare war on nations they haven't even had _any_ contact with. As it was, Aby and Kailasa were near neighbors who I watched trade provinces back and forth, yet Aby declares war on me. Stupid.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I'm not sure I get the stupid. In MP, you can declare war on anyone on the map and are aware of all players in the game, even if you don't know their location. If you hate Ermor or whomever enough, go right ahead. So, what's so wrong with the AI deciding to declare war?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Where was your scout at the time? Was your scout and his scout together?

Im sure there is some sort of contact but I could see where it might be a "computer stupidity" of not being able to tell that the two scouts dont count as contact.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

There couldn't have been contact by turn 4, as my scouts hadn't gone far enough in that direction. And Jayded, it makes _no_ sense to declare war on a nation you don't even know the location of. Yes, a player _could_ do it, but it's pointless and stupid, and happens even with score graphs / info off. It's an example of the AI cheating, just as it also managed (in Dom2, and I'm betting Dom3) to target commanders with remote spells long before the AI had made contact to know their location.

It makes the SP game damn near an exercise in irritation, rather than a fun experience.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I don't know if you can trust those numbers, but in any case they certainly don't apply to Dominions. The main reason more people don't play MP is that very few games implement MP properly. Most of strategy games are hard to do in one sitting and arranging time to continue is a nightmare. That's not the case with Dominions and playing against live opponents is more challenging than vs AI.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well I dont agree.

If what you said was true then I would have 50 nations declaring war on me by turn 10. Ive never been challenged by more than a few nations and they were always within a few provinces of me.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

It is different in Doms, Im pretty sure. I would say at least half of the Doms players are focusing on MP mainly, but hell knows the exact percentage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif