Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

From post 2007 onwards does the Russian receive T-72BM (2006) and T-80BM (2006)? In regards to Orbat..

Oh yeah, do they also have BMPT?

Here some pictures of the T-72BM (2006)

http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vid5xe4.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bort4bu6.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shtora1or5.jpg

It's a T-72B upgraded with 3rd generation Relikt Hvy ERA, some 80-90% superior then K-5 Hvy ERA against APFSDS accord to Nii Stali (manufacturer). Nakidka camoflage kit, SLAT/Grill armour over the rear-sides, 2A46M-5 125mm Gun major improvement over the 2A46M-1 with 20% increase in accuracy, comes with muzzle references, new FCS + TI, shtora Anti-missile defence, and new engine 1000hp.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Expand the question. What are you referring to ?

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

And how does this T-72MB differ from the T-72BM1 that is already in the game in a number of different versions ? Units 621 and 622 for instance ? and how does the T-80"MB" differ from the T-80UM ? I've found references to the T-72bm but asside from chat rooms nothing on the T-80BM

As for the BMPT, It's already in the OOB's you have now ( unit 879 ) I didn't have a pic for it but I do now.

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

The new T-72BM has superior armour compared against the T-72B(M) 1989 model, its gun is also more superior, and the FCS is comparable to the T-90A/M variant. It has superiors mobility and with the new comoflage kit, it reduces the rdr/ir signiture of the vehicle greatly therefore reducing its ability to be detected via radar/TI systems. Also Russian only upgrade, not for export.

The T-80BM is inferior in comparison to the T-80UM, only thing is known about it is that its updated the older stock of T-80B in Russian inventory with upgraded armour. Don't think it has updated FCS nor TI. Its fitted with modular Relikt Hvy ERA, which is superior then the older Kontakt-V ERA on the older tanks. Also only a Russian upgrade.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

OK....."The new T-72BM has superior armour compared against the T-72B(M) 1989 model"..... How much more superior ?? Equal to a t-80UM ??.... a T-90 ?? Is this in fact the "T-72BM1" we have in the game but without the upgraded armour or is the T-72BM1 a different vehicle ?


"inferior in comparison to the T-80UM" would be what we have as the T-80BV (unit 787 )but that doesn't have the more advanced ERA. I'm thinking that becasue there is a gap between the one BV we have ( unit 40 ) and the one in unit 787 that perhaps this one was supposed to be the BM but at the time it was put into the OOB's details were sketchy

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Don't even think there is even such a tank called T-72BM1. There is the T-72B(M) which is a T-72B equipped with Kontakt-5 ERA.

Here is a pic of a T-72B(M) 1989 model, you cans see the differences. Tanks in the background are T-72B fitted with Kontakt-1 ERA.

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?im...2bmby031sn.jpg

I regards to armour, Relikt is 80-90% superiors against LRP then the Kontakt-5, and just about the same against HEAT type warheads. So takes a T-72B without ERA and add the values up. Heard that Kontakt-5 adds around 150-180mm against LRP and about 350-400mm against HEAT. Relikt would be like 250-300mm against LRP, or somewhere along thoses lines. It's also features an anti-tandem warhead capability unlike the integrated Kontakt-5 ERA fitted on the T-72B, T-80U and T-90. It is also of modular design, allowing for quick removal and installation by field personnel, or crew.

The T-80BM seems to retain the current FCS as the older T-80B, only noticable difference is that it fitted with Relikt ERA, giving it more or less the same amount of armour as a T-80U with Kontakt-5 ERA. So it should have about 700-750mm of frontal armour against LRP or around that. Greatly increasing its survival in a modern battlefield.

Here's a pic. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8...drelict1hx.jpg

Edit: Also coverage of the frontal turret has improved from 50% on the T-72B with Kontakt-5 ERA to around 60-65% with Relikt.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

OK lets clarify a few things one of the real problems with sorting out Russian equipment is the nomenclature

Is this the progession you are talking about

T-72B basic model no ERA
T-72B(M) first upgrade around 1989 equipped with Kontakt-1 ERA ( or is it Kontakt-5 ERA?? )
T-72BM 3rd generation Relikt Hvy ERA in abouts 2006

??

Answer quick, the patch is built tomorrow......

One last thing. In the game the "T-72BM1" version has VRRSS and the "T-72BM" does not. Which of these models carries a VRRSS type defense

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Russian T-72B all have Kontakt-1 ERA. NATO classification is T-72BV for some strange reason, but internal Soviet/Russian classifications is just T-72B.
T-72B(M) is T-72B with Kontakt-5 Heavy ERA.
T-72BM is the newest upgrade in 2006 fitted with Relikt ERA.

There isnt actually a T-72BM1 at all. Smoke grenades changes don't actually classify as a major change therefore there is no need to have it's own designation. For all we know all tanks could use them.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

It was probably meant to be confusing, part of the Russians' obsession with maskirovka and all that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Part of the problem comes from blended Russian and "NATO" designations and some "domestic" models have different designations than the "export" versions and yes, this has been discussed before, it does seem the nominclature was designed to confuse.

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

OK I have this sorted out now . FYI the only difference in the OOB's you have now between the tanks marked T-72BM and T-72BM1 is that the BM1's have "VIRSS" and the "BM's" don't. I have left those but remamed them ( and the "BM"s ) so that players have a choice. If they want the "VIRSS" they can have it if not, they don't. They may all have it....or not. This is a compromise. Removing units causes problems with scenarios if that unit is used and I think in this case it's an acceptable compromise. For those tanks there is now a T-72B(M) and a T-72B(M)* the * in this one case indicates it carries defensive measures.

The T-72BM has been added. We do not model "third" generation ERA. a single digit number is simple era and 11-19 is all "advanced" ERA The compromise to this improved ERA is to increase the number. In this case it now has an "18" for ERA.

I assume the Missles stay the same or have they been upgraded as well?


Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Another piece of equipment that IMO deserves a second look, is the TOW-2B. (understand that this patch is nearly out the door, so certainly not expecting anything to happen this time around, if at all. Then again, never "Expect" anything, as we are owed nothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

As is, the TOW-2B's 100 "pen" is, I assume, from many sources lumping it and the TOW-2A together, and then listing a penetration value (typically 800 or 1000-1025mm RHA)

This is correct for the TOW-2A, and it's HEAT warhead. However, the TOW-2B does not have a HEAT warhead, but uses dual (E)xplosive (F)ormed (P)enetrators. (In essence KEPs produced from the initial explosion)

Now, in 2 like sized warheads (warhead diameter and thus cone liner diameter for HEAT, dish for EFPs) the EFP is going to have a significantly lesser penetration, but can achieve it at a variable standoff distance, whereas a given HEAT warhead has an ideal standoff detonation distance, anything more or less will reduce capability.

The TOW-2B's warheads (2 offset to increase hit/kill chance) are ~1" smaller, @ 5".

Now finding an exact penetration value is like finding unicorn teeth. However, the physics involved are pretty straightforward (Comparing the principal factors of HEAT penetration to those of Kinetic penetration.) and tell the overall tale.

One set of guesstimates (The SB Pro PE developers and their sources) have it at 350mm RHA. Now as to how accurate that figure is, impossible to say. It is no doubt closer than 1,000mm.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

So esentially the 2B is a dual charge warhead ( the effect is similar )

The thing is, in the game the 2b is a different weapon class than the "2a". The 2b's a top attack missle which already has different charateristics built into the class

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

TOW-2B is a top attack ATGM with EFP, TOW-2A has dual charge warhead and direct attack.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Right, it has 2 warheads, but the warheads do not act anything like a HEAT charge, they are completely different beasts.

It forms 2 ballistic penetrators (these are solid mass plates compressed to a bullet(ish) shape, not the super heated/pressurized "jet" of a HEAT warhead. The extent of their similarity is the shape of the explosives within the missile upon detonation. It is at that point that it ends.

These 2 "warheads" are not dual charge in the sense of a HEAT round, with a "spoiling" charge to trigger ERA. It has both going off simultaneously at different angles to ensure a hit as the missile overflies the target.

As far as ERA, there is no "jet" to be disturbed. It is a solid mass kinetic penetrator, same as any AP round fired from a gun tube.
Here is a photo of a "formed" EFP.

It does not possess the penetration potential of a similar sized HEAT round, but that is not needed to punch through the roof, and largely nullifies ERA same as a SABOT. If it does penetrate though, it has a higher damage potential, creating a larger breach, spalling and all the other nastiness created by a traditional KEP.

As far as in game, the considerations are, how does the 2-B currrently interact with ERA? It should be performing as any other solid AP shot. After that, it's penetration potential. Unless a TA munition's Pen value is divided, the 2-B should be a great deal less.

Now SP clearly must make approximations (both in direct and indirect ways). Simply wondering if as is, it is the best one for this system, and if it is both over & undercapable under different circumstances as a result.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

"So esentially the 2B is a dual charge warhead"

Not exactly.There are two warheads but it is not a multicharge, the two warheads point in different directions. The TOW-2B, or the BILL 2 for that matter, are not "top attack" in the same sense the Javelin is. They fly horizontally like like a conventional ATGM but instead of hitting the tank directly they overfly it.When the missile is above the target the warheads, which point towards the ground, are ignited. This is less complicated than a Javelin style approach.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

# T-72 - Original version, optical range-finder.

# T-72A - Added side skirts, additional armour, laser range-finder, electronic fire control system, smoke grenade launchers.

# T-72B - Thicker armour, composite armour in front of turret and front of hull. AT-11 "Svir" laser-guided antitank missile capability. Has the thickened frontal turret armor and is commonly known in the United States as the Dolly Parton.

# T-72AV, T-72BV - models with early Kontakt explosive reactive armour ("V" for vzryvnoi ‘explosive’).

# T-72B1 - T-72B without ATGM capability.

# T-72BK - Command version of T-72B, recognizable by having multiple radio antennas.

# T-72B(M) - T-72B equipped with advanced Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour, composite armour in sides of turret as well.

# T-72M - Soviet export version, similar to T-72A (built also in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia).

# T-72M1 - Soviet export version, with thicker armour (built also in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia).

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Just a note, T-72A and M1 got composite armour on turret, T-72M was basically cast-turret T-72 upgraded to T-72A/M1 standard in FC, ammo storage, smoke grenade launchers and side skirts (and LRF).
For example Czechoslovakia had:
T-72 - original Soviet supply, optical RF
T-72 - Czechoslovakian production, LRF
T-72M - see above
T-72M1 - as M, with comp. armor

Of course, lately also T-72M4CZ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Actually there were two versions of T-72A. First 1978 with standard glacis armor(330mm against KE) and 1983 with additional glacis armor (+16mm HHS = 400mm against KE). Same armor addon was used in T-72M1, So we can say that T-72A 1978 = T-72M, T72A 1983 = T-72M1

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

According to certain sources Russian T-72A never received the 16mm HHS upgrade for their T-72A, but the ones in the their inventory were actually T-72M1, possibly stock that they couldn't sell.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Hm,can you post link. In my sources i found that all tanks(T-64A,T-72A,T-64B) were upgraded after tests with Israli M111 wich was capable to penetrate standard glacis from 1500-2000m.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

FYI, the V3 Patch should be available the morning of Tuesday January 23,2007. ( EST) Check the Shrapnel main page then for details on downloading it

It is now 27MB in size

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

That´s excellent news Don, I´m eagerly waiting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Regards
Robert

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Super!

I assume since my question on phantom post-PGM arty went unanswered that the bug remains?

Anyway, thanks for not abandoning this game!

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

We cannot reproduce it on our development games. When or If we can, we'll fix it.

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Jolly good!

Hmmm, "morning (EST)" must be sometime after work local time. Guess Tuesday will be WinSPMBT-day.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

IDK when exactly it will be posted. I don't handle that end of things but if it goes up first thing in the morning here that would be mid afternoon in Europe. Check when you get up anyway, you never know...

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Århus? isn't that the place in Sweden where Absolut Vodka is made

I'm looking forward to tommorow

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

No,Absolut Vodka is made in Åhus Sweden not Århus, Denmark

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Getting a bit offtopic here, but Århus is best known now as the city where the paper "Morgenavisen Jyllandsposten" is based. They printed some cartoons a while back...

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

And good ones they were, too.

C.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

News Release For Immediate Release


winSPMBT Version 3.0 Thunders Onto The Battlefield!
New Upgrade Absolutely Packed With Enhancements!


Hampstead, NC, 23 January 2007

The Camo Workshop and Shrapnel Games are pleased to announce that a new upgrade to
the smash-hit winSPMBT is available for immediate download. Weighing in around 27
MB in size, the version 3.0 upgrade patch is positively bursting at its electronic seams
under the weight of its contents, featuring plenty of new material and updates to previous
content.

The upgrade patch contains the following exciting material, making an already superb
game even better with such items as:

* NEW! 25 Additional scenarios! Remember, there is never such a thing as too many
scenarios.

* UPDATED! 89 previously released scenarios have been tweaked and updated.

* ADDED! Six campaigns, previously available online, have been added.

* NEW and UPDATED! 29 brand new maps, one updated previously released map.

* UPDATED! 113 AI picklists have been updated, along with one leader name file,
and six updated ranks files.

* NEW! 687 new photos!

* NEW and UPDATED! Over 400 icons, both new and revised!

* UPDATED! 92 updated OOB files, updated cost calculator, and updated MOBHack!

That's right, all that in one amazing upgrade patch! What other companies would
package as an expansion disc the Camo Workshop and Shrapnel Games proudly give you
as an absolutely free patch. And as they say on late night commercials, but wait, there's
more!

Not only does the version 3.0 upgrade patch include all the above great enhancements, it
also includes several bug fixes, code changes, and other tweaks to the game. Some of the
bug fixes include units cloned in the scenario editor were not retaining their weapon
changes made by the user when the scenario in question was reloaded in the editor or
simply played. This has been fixed. Another issue was that barge carriers were creating
new barges when saved games were loaded, this has been fixed.

Some of the tweaks to the game itself include a maximum point limit of 65,000 from the
original 50,000 point limit. Short range effects in infantry combat and artillery
effectiveness against armor were both a tad high, and have been toned down.
Retreat/rally hexes have been added to the game, and multi-charge HEAT has been added
as a new weapon class and all HEAT ammo now has secondary HE ability.

Enhanced CD version owners also get some exclusive enhancements. Opfire filtering has
been added, and ScenHack and CampaignHack are also included in this latest patch.
Both ScenHack and CampaignHack were also included with the last version of
winSPWW2 for Enhanced CD owners, and have been rewritten for use with winSPMBT.
If you don't own the Enhanced CD version yet, why wait any longer? Start enjoying all
the perks of the Enhanced CD!

In addition to the above changes many, many more tweaks and changes are present. For a
complete list check out our website.

The version 3.0 upgrade patch applies to both the FREE version available for download
and the Enhanced CD version available for purchase and may be downloaded directly at:

www.shrapnelgames.com/SPCamo/wSPMBT/6.htm

winSPMBT is the updated version of the much beloved classic SSI tactical game, Steel
Panthers 2: Modern Battles. The Camo Workshop, a group of highly dedicated fans, have
been upgrading the original classic since 1998 and in doing so spawned not just the
ultimate super-mod for a game, but created a classic by its own right.

winSPMBT is a fully functional, standalone game based on the original Steel Panthers 2:
Modern Battles code. At its core fans will appreciate finding the same turn-driven, hex-
based tactical gameplay that made Steel Panthers so addictive. The Camo Workshop,
over the years, has broken down and rebuilt the original game, making it the ultimate
turn-based wargame of modern combined arms conflict. Boasting refinements in all
areas, from graphics to equipment databases to scenarios, winSPMBT is not simply a port
of an old DOS game to the era of Windows but a total rebirth.

Available both as a FREE download or an Enhanced CD edition for only $39.95 (which
adds higher resolutions, a more intense map editor, and other enhancements for the
serious Steel Panthers fanatic), winSPMBT has been a constant fan favorite.

For more information on winSPMBT or any of our other award-winning games, please
visit us at www.shrapnelgames.com. There you'll find our complete catalog of titles,
including the sister game of winSPMBT, winSPWW2, dedicated to the years of modern
conflict prior to 1946.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Yippee!

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Downloaded and installed. Very cool. I still don't know what I'm doing a lot of the time, but now I have more features to blame it on! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Well, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

(HOORAY!)

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Downloaded, installed and running!
Thank you Camo Team!
I still need to get used to the new features but looks great so far.

Regards
Robert

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Don, Andy, thank You very much for your hard work!

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

big thanks.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Great news - you're about the only software company nowadays which releases something ahead of schedule! - I thought I read somewhere it would only be ready at the end of the month... good job!

I'll have to wait before I can install it, however, as I have 3 really cool PBEM games running (finally found some opponents!)

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Thanks for the continued updates. Really like the new HEAT HE capability!

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Thanks for the support guys. We do appreciate it

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Hi Shan

Do a second installation if you have the space.
The game has no conflicts if there are more than one install on the same drive.

At least that way you can have a play with the new features while you wait to finish your battles.

Cheers
SGT

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Great work guys!

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

This is what I did so it does work. I moved my 2.51 to another directory, then did a clean install from start to end (using my CD, not the base game DL).

All went well and I'm up and running without issue.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

WERY NICE! Tank you Don and Andy.

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Can we buy a new CD which has the ver 3.0? My installs of the patches do not seem to load. I loaded them in order, but when I start the game the old version is still on the opening page. Thanks

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Did you install the game to a different directory path from the default?. e.g on a D: drive perhaps.

If so, you need to point the patch installers at where you installed the game.

Cheers
Andy

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

... and that's the only reason that would happen. Check what directory your shortcut is starting the game from then check where you installed the patches.

Don

Re: WinSPMBTver3.0 Info
 

Thanks for that information, I'll check it out. Thanks