Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

AS I said in the other thread (and dammit I'll say it here too) I love this mod, so many great memories of playing exile with my dad, I used to really love the sprites in the game, and this mod is one of thoses "HA! remember this guy dad?" so yeah, basically thanks alot again Sombre, and still managing to get my *** kicked by MA evil rome, dammit! I'll have my day yet...

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Updated to v1.5

-- TWEAK - Vahn ranger greatly reduced in cost

-- TWEAK - Vahn mages and shapers slightly increased in price

-- TWEAK - Avernite mage nerfed a bit

-- TWEAK - Costs of various commaners fine tuned

-- TWEAK - Stealth of Nephil normalised at 10

-- FIX - Moved nametypes to overwrite ea ulm ones, since we've run out and Avernum is an MA nation

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I played exile in the past (from a multi game CD lying around in the house of an ex GF of mine,( it was already outdated then and this was like 8 years ago), when she did homework I was playing the game in the same room) When we went less to her parents (when she went to higher schooling too) and later when we broke up I lost track of the game (I don't think I came very far.

Anyway enough of the background story:

Would it be a game to start playing again now or would I just get annoyed at the graphics (which usually don't bother me much really) or the gameplay and story (very important these last 2)

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I imagine you would like it. It was a while since I tried it, but I liked it. Graphics are no more outdated then dom3 :)

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I can't speak for the 'avernum' update but Exile III is one of the best rpgs of all time imo.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Also that's no way to talk about your ex girlfriend.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

hehe

Well it's just the way it is Sombre.. my feeling clouded my mind then... now I'm seeing it clearly. (And to quote myself "I'm not a nice guy")

Yeah I was looking around for exile and read that avernum 1-3 are remakes of the exile games. I think I'll try those a bit.. unless someone tells me a lot was lost in translation...

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I've tried avernum 5, it is good but really hard : you have almost no explication about the game in the manual, but you have complete solution and cheat codes ! It is a bit linear, you can't really choose were to go, and if you want to get the plot, you'll have to read tons of text.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Is this still being worked on? I would love to see a working empire with garzhad as the anti-thesis to erika instead of hawthorne though.

This looks to be incredible though

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I currently have no plans to do an 'empire' nation to oppose this one.

I will still update this and any of my mods when the mood takes me, or if something drastically needs to be done.

Give it a go, Zebion, and let me know what you think. I'm pretty good at fixing problems people bring to me, even adding stuff if they have very good ideas.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

These are some general idea's from the newest update of avernum, to both a bit of balance, and staying a bit thematically true to the games. Pick and choose if you like any of course.

- Unit races need to be seperated a bit more by race, it's rather confusing to check the first captain (avernite captain) to find it has more leadership then the nephil chief,. My idea would be to put the nephils as first, humans second, sliths third, and finally vahnatai last.

- Vahnatai rangers having only 2 movement, but should be theroetically the fastest unit in the forces, (In the games they were running as fast as horses to some of the avernites) Even the sacred warriors are slower then the nephil while they have no armor?

-Warborn, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have halbred instead of a battleaxe?

-Hero idea: The adventurers, the one's who seemed to save avernum time and time again, come to assist in combat. I'm not sure if your able to make a group of heros appear. If so, you could create a human mage/priest commander, with melee human warrior (sword shield combination) Slith polearm user, and finally nephil archer. If not able to. Make the adventurers like the knights of Man, random heros that come once in a while, and you can always get another. maybe have some as mages, priests, and all that, have them start with maybe 1 or two experience.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

- I can certainly reorder the units on the build screen. However they are laid out it will be confusing to someone though. It's just a matter of sticking with something and people getting used to it.

- Vahnatai Rangers, as assassins, wouldn't really benefit much from strat move 3. They spend their time moving in enemy territory after all. Also I'm not sure that being able to run as fast as a horse necessarily means you can cover the distance cavalry can. The Soul Guard's strategic move is explained in their description iirc.

- Halberd for Warborn. I guess? Why is it more appropriate? Because slith like polearms? I wasn't really trying to translate that from the game. It can be changed though.

- As for heroes, the nation already has 7 different types of hero who can turn up. They are a varied bunch, but they aren't based on the games.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

- True, sorry.

- I was meaning the other sacred, The vahnatai warrior. The soul guard I very much understand, but yes I get it. The movement three for ranger would seem to be more of them covering distance within the territory to get to those pivotal points in order to be in a territory before/after an enemy conquers it, being in perfect position to assassinate, but yes I understand.

The warriors however, as avernum has no calvary to speak of, it may be interesting to have them able to flank lightly as fast attacking units able to reach the back row,while slower then calvary, but pretty fast.

- It just seemed the extra reach and overall repel damage of the halberd would be more suited to what they want to do, generally I kinda forgot about the slith pole arm bonus at the moment though. Understandable.

- There are? I haven't received one yet, nor know how to see them.. Although if their in your pics you posted up, I cannot see them. For some odd reason I can't see any pics on the dom forums oddly.

Thanks for the suited response, I will be using them more today, to check for any glitched issues, bugs, or just overall problems. I can't really think of any meaningful contributing idea's generally for now, so I'll stick with looking for bugworks. Glad you made this awesome mod though. So thanks overall.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Hmm. I think you're right about halberds, it would probably suit them better as all purpose heavy infantry. So that'll be in the next update.

I think the vahn warriors are pretty fast already and you've got the nephilim warriors and braves who are capable of flanking. I'll have a look at it though, maybe speed them up. I like them more for their ranged attacks and ability to take down elites than for flanking duty though.

The 6 (Not 7 as it turns out) heroes are:

A Vahn High Shaper multihero.
An Avernite Archmage multihero.
A Nephil nature mage hero.
A Nephil/Rakshasa demonic hero.
A Slith gladiator.
An evil Vahn death mage who summons hraithes.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

A few thoughts on the race so far as played.

The race depends on it's archers to take out the enemies, only one force can take or even survive against an archer massed force. Race is rather good on points though, able to take sloth with no heavy penalties.

Varied warriors, able to pick and select what types needed based on resources/location/enemy. Need to fight an archer massed force? Take nephil archers with Avernum human guards. Longbowmen taking out your archers? Go with the avernite archers. Lots of flanking potential with the nephils and vahn warriors, able to take on heavy infantry with it's slith warriors.

Good researching potential, able to go down any research path thanks to avernum mages. Although heavily varied when it needs to get certain races, it can get any sort of combination of 1-2 paths, even some that really compliment each other, as always, the major mages are vulnerable to mind duel, but that's typical of Astral anyways.

The non-shaper vahns seem to be a bit powerful however in their picks, you may want to reduce it to 100% with maybe a 20-100% chance of an extra, you won't believe how many air 3's I've gotten so easily, able to teleport around the map air blasting, they just seem a bit to strong for their price, and as they are also sacred, they can be blessed with reinvigoration, making them stronger.

Havn't tried some of the higher level national summons, but the trog warriors seem good.

Nations sacreds scream Earth blessing, Reinvigoration and protection bonus seem to bless the entirity of the nation, the mages are incredible as stated, and the warriors with extra protection seem to survive a bit better, although they do better with air instead. Havn't tried any full bless paths with them, so I can't really state so far.

Nation so far seems to be pretty balanced along things, although some things could use a bit of resource changes and maybe a bit more gold costs.

If you have any parts of the nation you would want spell ideas or changes to. I'd be glad to provide some. I can't really think of any unit additions without changing part of the balance between the mages or commanders.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I'm glad you enjoyed the mod. I think Avernum is fairly well balanced, though it is certainly one of the strongest nations in MA due to its powerful battlemages and access to a great variety of paths.

I did suspect the Vahn mage is perhaps too strong. They were intended to give easy access to extremely potent midgame evocations and represent the raw magical ferocity of the race. If I were to change them I'd either make them more expensive or change them to something like A1F1 AF 150%. That way you'd have a quarter of them as F3s or A3s, rather than half.

I don't think the sacreds scream for an E9 at all. In fact the E9 added protection only works properly on the Trog Defender, since the others lack the armour to make use of it. The reinvig is certainly welcome though.

I think they're one of the few nations that actually benefit from an air bless of some sort, since archers can mess up your vahn very easily. On the other hand S9 also works well and you can bet they'll have a whole load of astral pearls to make use of that magic.

I tend to consider Avernum a finished mod, like Skaven. There are little bits and pieces that could be added, but for the most part they feel complete to me, so I just make tweaks every now and then.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

This is one of my favorite mod Nations, and remains a great example for what I want in a new Nation: Something different/unique, with complex variation, beautiful graphics, interesting strategies, units, and playing style choices, and it serves as an introduction to something I wasn't previously aware of.

If I could request that anything be added, it'd be nice to see some indigenous "animal" type beasties. It's not necessary, but there's such a wide range of humanoids (not to mention the "crystal souls" themselves), that I'd love to see "more of the world". Even as just independents, or site recruitables.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

While I don't think he is really adding anything fully new..The vahns did have all sorts of animal creations they did make. The six legged alien beasts, the slimes, the cockroach plague. Not to mention hydra's and chitrichs.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

oo maybe you could add in the talking friendly spiders!

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Hey Sombre,

I'm not sure if you'd want to add it into the mod, but I was just messing around learning how to do sprites, and turned one of the character portraits into one. I thought I'd put it up here for you in case you want to make her into a national hero or something. She took me a while, and I'm pretty happy with how she came out -- particularly the attack sprite.

If it's something you like, I was toying with the idea of making a few more. If not, that's okay. Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Globu

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

If you'd like, you can update the Avernum mod with new stuff. I'm happy to relinquish it to anyone who is willing to keep it updated. I had no further plans to update it personally.

I think it does needs a bit of ID jiggling in order to be fully compatible with my other MA mod nations though.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

That's currently beyond my skills, but if anyone does pick it up and would like to do so, I'd be happy to provide this sprites and a few others.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I could do the ID jiggling part. And anything not graphism related.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Well, Humakty, I did find a few things that could use fixing, along with a few suggestions.

1) The Avernite Captain's description says equipped same as troops, but has normal shield instead of kite shield, has no helmet, and has full chain main instead of chain mail hauberk. I'm imagining this was unintentional. Also, he has no patrol bonus like the troops from which he arose, and gets female names (nametype 119, misc female).

2) Likewise, the Avernite Archer's description mentions same patrol/peacekeeping training as the avernite guard, but archers get no patrol bonus. Doesn't make sense. Suggest either patrol bonus be added or amendment of description and rationale. My personal opinion is that they should have the patrol bonus too.

3) As mentioned with the Avernite Captain, a couple of other nametypes are mixed up. Avernite mages have nametype 100, misc. male, and avernite archmages have 112, caelum female, which seems oddly out of place given the lack of that cultural paradigm elsewhere in the nation (again, I'm not familiar with the Avernum lore, so if it goes with that, then disregard this comment). Suggest change to whatever is appropriate lorewise, and that they be consistent with one another.

4) Feedback/suggestion on Vahnatai Shapers and High Shapers, and Avernite Mages and Archmages: In line with what you talked about before in the thread, Sombre, I suggest some random element to magic. Beyond the fact that it makes it more consistent with the variation in the vahnatai mages, it just adds that bit of variety and unpredictability I personally love. As far as it impacts me, that's one of my favorite aspects of the game. Of course, I don't know the Avernum series games' lore very well, so take this with a grain of salt if it is inconsistent with that. But either way, count this as a vote for moar randomness in mage magic picks.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Sorry for the double post. Was too late to edit the last one.

I realized that the attack sprite had some uglies about it. I've edited it a bit, hopefully an improvement (mostly on the legs, bow, and her right breast). Getting a tiny bit better at my image-ripping sprite fu.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I think if you can spot those problems you can easily edit the dm to correct them, in all honesty. You might be overestimating how hard modding is. It's piss easy. Just have a look at the mod manual.

The mod wasn't based too strongly on the lore of avernum at all. It just takes some basic bits and pieces and of course the graphics (with permission) and puts them together in an interesting mod shape. It was the first mod I did so I'm not surprised at all if it's a bit weird.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Globu, that sprite is absolutely beautiful.

That is all.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I'm not so averse to the simple aspects as I am to ID juggling in light of maximum compatibility with other mods (obviously yours, mainly) and so forth. I'm a bit more wary of that, as I'm not familiar with the ranges in use and all that. But, with your blessing, I'd be more than happy to apply the tweaks and corrections I mentioned (or collaborate with you, Humakty -- or simply let you handle it :)).

Just out of curiosity, Sombre, how broad was your grant of permission for game graphics? Was it all graphics from the series, or just from the first game, or some other criteria?

Thanks, Burnsaber.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Yeah, doing the actual .dm would be incredibly simple. You would barely even need the manual with the work sombre has done already.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Alright, thoughts on the following proposal for random picks.

(Note that the proposals in regard to Vahnatai mages depart somewhat from the fairly strict separation you had between Vahnatai mages (air and fire) and Vahnatai shapers (earth and water), giving some dabbling room inbetween (each has a clear focus, but has randoms possible in all elements). Not sure how important that separation is thematically; if it is, then we just go with randoms only in the appropriate elements.)




Avernite Archmage:

Granted level 3 in one random elemental, and level 1 in two other elemental magic. (Example: F1W1E3.)

Proposed change:
FAWE 2
FAWE 1
FAWE 1
50% chance of FAWED 1
50% chance of FAWED 1

(Rationale: basic Avernite mages have access to death; why would no archmages have it?)

Vahnatai High Shaper:

Straight S4W3E3.

Proposed change:
S4W2E2H2
100% chance of WE
50% chance of FAWE
50% chance of FAWE

(Rationale: For the elemental randoms, simple variety and flavor. For the H2, it seems strange that the lesser Vahnatai Shapers are H2 priests, but that the high shaper hero is not. H3 seems thematically appropriate, but a bit too much balance-wise -- especially when throwing on power of the spheres and all that, so H2 seemed more reasonable to me.)


Vahnatai Shaper:

S3W2E2H2

Proposed change:
S3W1E1H2
100% chance of WE
100% chance of WE
20% chance of FAWE

(Rationale: Variety and flavor.)


Vahnatai Mage:

S1F1A1
100% chance of AF
100% chance of AF

Proposed change:
S1F1A1
100% chance of AFE
100% chance of AFE

(Rationale: Variety and flavor. Lorewise, the Earth addition is justified by new description line: "Some show signs of beginning the transition from a focus on the volatile elements to the stable ones worked by the Shapers.")


--------------


I have all these changes in a putative v1.6, attached hereto.

This is my first edit of a mod, so, eh, pardon if I screwed something up. Seems to work okay.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

It's of course ok with me if you do it on your own, I was under the vague compulsion to try and make a modpack out of Amos mods, updating them in the process, but I'd rather wait to be sure he won't show up again.

So PM me if you still want me to do some stuff.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I suggest a new thread, so you can stick updates on the first post and edit it as needed.

Regarding permissions, it was along the lines of 'as long as you don't profit from my IP I don't care'. I only asked about stuff from the exile series (inc blades of exile).

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Okay. Will do.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

So here we go : the file attached is normally compatible with :

Ogre
Lizardmen
Skaven
CBM
Bretonnia
Tomb kings
Wood elves

Basically I just changed monster id numbers from 27xx to 29xx.

I have yet to do some tests, will proceed to those soonish.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Normally compatible...?

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

I think I have excel sheets with the id ranges for all my mods, which might be of help. I could post them up if it's still needed.

Anyway.

I officially hand over the entirety of Avernum to Globu.

The only thing I ask is that you make it clear I am no longer the author, so I don't get asked about changes made in future versions.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Well, I say 'normally' because I'm not very sure of myself, see when I was a child............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................and then she flew out of the window.

Is it all clear now ? :)

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

More or less :P

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Makes perfect sense to me.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Globu, in case you hadn't noticed it already : The file in post 134 should work with the mods whom's list you'll find in the very same post.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Yep! Thanks for taking care of that, Humakty. Checking it out now.

Re: Avernum, Crystal Souls v1.5 UPDATE
 

Okay, Sombre. I have done as instructed. New v1.6 release thread here. Thanks for your work on this and your other excellent mods, by the way!