Re: Ogre Kingdoms minor fix
 

Same way he got the chains off the wall when he was imprisoned, he'll swing them around until things break.

Seriously though he has 3 attacks. Fleshflayer his magic weapon causes additional weakness and does 13 nostr damage, he then gets ogre smash str based attack and finally he gets a 'dark chains' attack which has secondaryeffect of enslave mind. I originally had the twin spear effect as a secondaryeffect so stuff he killed turned into soulless (and it worked, amazingly) but I decided that would be cooler in some other mod if a recruitable unit used it as a straight up weapon.

So in this case the slaves are just decorative. He does spawn and command lots of nice slave chaff though, which when it dies automatically becomes soulless.

Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Ok, 0.6 is up.

-- version 0.6

-- CONTENT - Added Hero 'Slavelord Braugh' and his slaves, plus his two weapons

-- FIX - Fort types checked and changed

-- TWEAK - Sacred pitfighter +10 goldcost

-- TWEAK - Bruiser and Tyrant commanders -10 goldcost each

-- TWEAK - Slavegiant gets siegebonus 5

-- FIX - added the missing mountainsurvival to gnoblar units

-- TWEAK - deathbelcher weapon better, unit +4 goldcost

-- TWEAK - gave yhetee coldpower 2


It's attached to the first post as always.

Attached to this post is just a preview pic.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Just so that you know, I'm in love with ScrapLaunchers.
When I have enough to kill fairly large groups of tower shield holding, plate hauberk wearing abysian infantry is that too many? c:

Thanks for all the great work Sombre. And I'm glad pitfighters got a slightly higher cost - they are crazy with a decent bless. N9? That gives them 5 regeneration a turn and +6 berserk. +6. When they go berserk that's 3 attacks each at attack 17(16 for the smash) and strength 22, with their attacks doing damage: 27, 27, 21 respectively.
I've had single berserk pitfighters take out entire squares of enemies in a single turn - almost no regular troops will stand up to them on a square-by-square basis.
Throw in Bullgorger and maybe bloodgruel and the only thing that has any chance of stopping these guys is something that targets their MR.
One of my favourite things about these guys? They can make use of any bless. Okay, unless you're taking it to level 9 and combining it with bloodgruel to fight a blood nation air might be a bit useless, but even death/blood blesses help these guys(death: kills SCs. blood: kills everything).

The best part? ScrapLaunchers work perfectly with these guys. Sure, the pitfighters don't need much help killing things, but what do they need? Yes, they need incredibly inaccurate, low damage friendly fire that will send them berserk before battle so that their regeneration can kick in and heal them back up while they prance around tougher than fully armoured knights.

Slave Giants are absolute beasts. Incredibly vunerable(my prophet with his N9 bless being slightly less so) compared to alot of ogre units, but absolutely devastating. They are a little too expensive/vunerable to risk against any decently damaging chaff, but if you let these guys get near the enemy elites then there's a pretty good chance that your enemy will cry while watching the battle replay. That is a good thing.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Try dropping trollguts and toothcracker on a slave giant. Toughens them up considerably. It does take quite an investment though. Don't put bullgorger on them, it just makes them better at accidentally killing themselves (they can do that even swinging at a lone militia).

Bullgorger actually works great with hordes of gnoblars.

I'm still tweaking pitfighters and scraplaunchers, because they're pretty easy to make overpowered.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Toothcraker does what? Give them two extra protection. Nice, but not great. I agree on the trollguts for giants and bullgorger for gnoblars though.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Map for ThreeWay blitz.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Map for TwoWay blitz.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Toothcracker doesn't give two extra protection. It gives stone skin. I'm pretty sure that's a substantial increase to the giants natural prot.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Beautiful mod, as always, Sombre. A thousand thank-yous for all your very hard, very talented, work. Do you ever use a lightpen or are you amongst the ranks who have tragically been crippled by the infamous "point and click" torture?

By the way, since the AI isn't using slave giants very effectively, I was wondering if maybe you'd given some thought to having a different version of Ogre Kingdoms for the AI. The AI could maybe get a special unit in place of the Slave Giant (with no need to redo the artwork), that *will* run up to the enemy (with a high movement, so it gets a good head start), dies quickly (1 hp, 0 prot.), and then transforms into a Slave Giant.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

I don't have a tablet or anything special for doing graphics. I use Paint Shop Pro and a mouse. I'm not an artistically talented person, but I am happy with some of the unit graphics I've managed to churn out, particularly in this mod. The Slaughtermaster, Western Maneater and Braugh the Slavelord are favourites of mine.

As for an AI version of the giant, yeah, it wouldn't be too hard. The best idea might just be to have the slavegiant as a recruitable rather than a commander, in the AI version.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

Well, you definitely have a talent for translating pixels into good looking units, quickly and effectively.

I love the slave giants, by the way. I've got one that's still alive and well, with fully seven disabilities. Having lost both eyes and bearing a limp, he's still an effective unit, having obtained the heroic cause fear ability.

Are you planning to individualize the heroic slave giants, by the way? I was a little disappointed to learn that they're almost identical to the regular unit. Still a great unit to get for free, but lacks some of the specialness that a hero's supposed to have. Maybe the heroes could get an armor slot? If it wasn't filled, it would give the ogres more of an impetus to put some research into Construction, without immediately boosting the power of the unit.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

They aren't heroes, they're multiheroes. They won't be available at all when I add the rest of the national heroes, they were just a stand in until then.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

ohhh, gotcha. I got that they were multiheroes, I just figured they were a feature, rather than a stand-in.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.6 released
 

I'm going to update this one next. It will get totally reorganised ID numbers, a new national hero and various tweaks.

One of the major changes is the removal of the bonus Ogre Smash attack on Ogres with two weapons (other than the tyrant who is big enough to do all three). Of course I will reduce cost in line with this.

Edit: So if you have any suggestions make them ASAP so I can try and work them into the next version. I will also include an "AI Ogre Kingdoms" nation mod which is the same nation but altered to provide a very strong AI opponent.

Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Ok the new version is up on the first page.

Note that it includes a mod called "AI Ogre Kingdoms" which is an AI friendly version of the nation designed to give a bit more challenge in SP without being too crazy.

Also please do delete your old version of Ogre Kingdoms before installing this. It now goes in a different directory and the dm has a different name, so it won't overwrite.

-- Version 0.7

-- FIX - Reordered ID numbers to avoid future conflicts with basegame

-- TWEAK - Altered Eastern Maneater graphic slightly

-- TWEAK - Slightly decreased scraplauncher cost and increased range

-- TWEAK - Increased price of yhetee and gorger summons

-- TWEAK - Giants get one misc slot

-- TWEAK - Improved PD

-- CONTENT - Added first prophet national hero

-- TWEAK - Ogres with two weapons now don't get Ogre Smash and have had their cost tweaked accordingly

-- FIX - Changed name and epithet to better fit dominions

-- FIX - Changed name of dm and mod folder to fit my conventions

-- FIX - Starting scout is now a butcher, since they have dying dom

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

That's great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You might want to edit the first post name to 0.7...

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Ah thanks, have done so.

I eagerly await feedback on the nation. It's getting very close to being 100% finished now. Just a few more tweaks and 3 more heroes in the future.

Oh and Rhinox Cavalry.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rhinoxc.htm

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

ooo i like the sound of rhinox cavalry. any hint of what the other 3 will be.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Skrag the Slaughterer, Prophet of the Great Maw
Greasus Goldtooth, Overtyrant
Golfag Maneater, Mercenary Captain

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Greasus is the one I'm most excited about.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Why Greasus? His graphic is a pain in the ***, that's for sure (he's carried into battle by a horde of gnoblars). Though I'm not sure exactly what interesting powers I can give him. Clearly he's going to be a thug with extremely high HP,... and probably autosummon troops to represent his ridiculous wealth,.. but other than that I don't know.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Hmm, Greasus could (IMHO) have:
- Size 4 or 5, preferably 5
- Trample and / or special AOE 1 Ogre Smash
- AOE 1 weapon (he has strength 10 in tabletop and has a huge scepter artefact)
- Humongous leadership cabablities
- Fear
- Standard effect
- Higher glutton than normal ogres
- Order increasing ability

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

That order increasing ability is a nice idea, but I'm not sure if there are any basegame units I can copy that from.

He will certainly have a powerful built in aoe attack with his scepter(rather than trample), maxed out leadership, very high standard, fear, very high hp, high gluttony and size 5.

Slotswise he'll probably have 1 body and 3 misc (he loves the bling).

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I dunno why I like Greasus, maybe because he's so enormously fat that he can't hardly move without his sceptre, which grants him badass magical/physical prowess. He's kind of like a combination Jabba the Hutt and Darth Vader, all rolled into one big greasy ball.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

sounds good lookin forward to them.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

There's only one thing that kind of bugs me about the ogres. I find it really hard to justify ever building the eastern style Maneaters. I'm not sure if I just don't see it or what, but it seems they're pretty much just slightly better Ironguts and are almost 3 times as expensive. I think the only time I'd build one is if I really wanted to increase the morale of a squad of Ironguts. The western maneaters are so good though, and even easier to produce, that spending the money on the eastern version instead just doesn't seem worth it.

Looking forward to the new heroes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Good point. I think I'll give them magic weapons in the next version, which will make them a bit special.

They are significantly better than ironguts though. Ironguts have real problems hitting stuff whereas Eastern Maneaters can hit extremely accurately and extremely hard. They also cost a lot less resources, of course.

Oh and in the latest version Western Maneaters have lost Ogre Smash so they're down to 2 attacks, same as Eastern Maneaters. Of course that's 2 good attacks as opposed to 1 good one 1 bad one.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I like this idea. Much better way of enhancing their usefulness than what I was thinking....

At the moment I'm playing a game using the last version before the most recent update. I believe attack and defense is at 10/7 for Ironguts, 12/12 for western Maneaters, and 12/10 for the eastern Maneaters. I tend to think of 10 as fairly average and 12 as being decent, so it is an improvement. I just personally think of Ironguts as damage sponges so it doesn't bother me too much that they don't have lots of attack skill. If I think of them as Ironguts that can kill things that does help a bit.... It was just problematic with westerners doing so much more damage and not being much more killable skewing things.

Getting rid of the western Maneater Ogre Smash attack also helps the easterners a bit. They might earn their keep now.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

And on a completely unrelated note, you've got to love names like "squigface" and "grotcrusher" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

hah those good but the best ones ive seen are fartsniffer and buttface. I was surprised to see those as names.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Hahah. That's ogres for you. Ogre names don't change from when they're first given, so if a young ogre picks his nose and eats it he'll be snotbiter even if he becomes the overtyrant of all the kingdoms. He'll be Mansmasher Deathbellow Snotbiter, but still essentially Snotbiter.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

haha yea the names are hilarious

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

my friend actually thinks that ogre kingdom mod is overpowered =(

and not suitable for normal games

he is currently using the new jomon mod with fox/dog samurai and those regenerating fox ogre things lol

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I don't think it is, honestly. They have strong troops, sure, but they have completely abysmal research ability and almost no magic diversity. If he thinks Ogre Kingdoms is overpowered... try playing chaos undivided against him sometime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I don't think they're overpowered. I think carefully about the balance of Ogre Kingdoms because I want them to be about smashing face and bad at research, but I don't want them to be a 'facehugger' nation where they're all early game and nothing else because those are annoying to play in mp and wreck the game.

I'm still considering adding a little something else to allow more in the way of research and diversity without ruining the theme. Possibly gnoblar shamans with a chance of a single point in F/E/D/N, but also a chance of getting nothing,.. however that's quite a departure from the established army list.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Maybe some sort of Goblin slave mages? I admit that's stretching things a bit too. It's almost more likely you'd end up with a human mage from a mercenary outfit or some such.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

what about some sort of national summons that the Ogre shamans could cast to get some researching demons/sprits?

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I'm quite keen on giving the Ogres some demons and though we'd be talking about stuff that goes beyond the armylist, I don't mind that so much for powerful spells.

In Warhammer terms they would be demons but not of the traditional 4 chaos powers, rather from the malign energy of the Maw and the Ogres' belief in it.

But I'm not sure how well this would help balance the nation out. They do already have a powerful SC chassis in the form of the Tyrant and giving them diverse magic through the demons doesn't seem right, because as Bloodthrirsters don't have magic, you would think Ogre Demons wouldn't either.

Another possibility is for me to add a 6th hero after Greasus, Skrag and Golfag who is an Ogre Sorceror from Cathay, with powerful magic.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I do agree that with the amount of "hulk smash" the ogres already have, lots magic research could very well unbalance the nation. With that in mind the idea of one magic using ogre with good research and magic picks in something other than blood would be a perfect solution. I always have a soft spot for heros, as I feel they add so much to the character and fun factor of any nation in Dominions!

So my vote is for a sixth hero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

I don't know if you'd consider it, but it might be slightly more thematic if the slave giants themselves had a low chance of gaining 1 point in Air magic, since they're supposed to be the inbred and degraded scions of the Sky Giants, from what I understand. Maybe once in a great while, one of them breeds true?

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Slave giants are even more stupid and basic than normal giants, due to repeated clubbing to the head and general mistreatment. We're talking an intelligence level somewhere between an orc and a troll here. I'm also not sure that the Sky Giants would have had any inherent magic either. They were definitely more intelligent and they might have had mages, since they had some sort of civilisation, but I'm guessing the mages would have had to study and train like most. Slave Giants obviously have zero opportunity to study or train at anything other than A) being chained to the floor and B) Smashing things on the rare occasion they are let loose.

Besides which who would build a 400 gold unit for 1 point of air magic? The only thing he could use it for is the lowest level self buffs.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms 0.7 released
 

Well, they already have poor research, which I think reflects the generally low IQ and poor test results of the Ogre Kingdom as a whole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The air magic would reflect an inherant affinity, rather than skill or training. They'd just be predisposed towards air, occasionally, like Trolls are to earth.

And you'd still be paying 400 gold for the Slave Giant, it just would maybe make you stop and think a little bit more about them, if you got the occasional one with air magic.

I'd definitely give the Slave Giants a great big negative research bonus (who's going to use them for researching, anyway?), but it's an opportunity for the nation to have a different outlet for whatever the Ogres *do* research, so while it might not directly influence their researching a whole lot, it might give them more reason to bother.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

I have some plans to update Ogre Kingdoms, whose great weakness from lack of research and spellcasting still needs more counterbalancing.

I don't want to make them super powerful early game, awful late game because that isn't going to be any fun to play with or against. They will retain their early game bias of course, but I want to allow them a late game strat by granting them two new things.

Firstly I'm going to give them mawpit summons which will cause domspread. This will allow them to try and win via dompush, representing the power of the maw becoming so great that it consumes a whole region.

Secondly I'm going to give them some expensive but devastating maw demon summons, which will allow them to complete wreck enemy territory, give them an anti magic tool (high res and resistances) and highlight the fact that Ogres are essentially agents of an apocalyptic devouring force. These 'Mawbominations' are just wrecking balls, not thugs. They'll have no leadership, magic or slots and they'll auto berserk in combat. If I can I also want to make them crazy like tartarianss.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

That all sounds excellent Sombre.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

The ogres do definitely need something to help them last longer, their lack of magic is a huge handicap if your opponent has decent battle magic. Winning by dompush seems pretty viable at least on smallish maps such as, say, ossya. With a good early game you would have plenty of land to build temples and sacrifice in and combining a summon to help that sounds pretty nasty. The 'Mawbominations' could be useful, but they have to be able to hit pesky high defense things. I suppose if they auto-berserk they probably will be able to. But I think the ogres almost have too low of attack skill in general. I know they're not really supposed to be above average in skill, but they're almost below average due to the size disadvantage. A few of them have multiple attacks which does help, but I'm not sure it helps quite enough.

Is Rhinox cavalry still in the works?

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

I think you're just judging Ogre fighting skill from that one encounter with your sacreds in warhammerama - when I saw the bless on your guys I wasn't surprised at all you won that battle. But those were a handful of regular bulls and Ogres have plenty of ways to hit high defence units, believe me. Their own sacreds, maneaters, gnoblar swarms, gorgers (due to berserk and multiple attacks) and of course Slave Giants with their aoe attacks.

Rhinox Cavalry are still in the works, but when I tried to do the graphic it kept coming out goofy, so I'm not in a hurry to do them.

'Mawbominations' will almost certainly have trample or aoe attacks.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

And yes, Ogres are supposed to have below average skill. In warhammer they have the same weapon skill as a human and lower initiative, so they're less skilled.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

That one encounter is part of where it's coming from, yes. But high defense units do seem to be hard on the ogres. Once you get thugs going I suspect that won't really be the case anymore though. You're right though, my thinking on this is probably slightly skewed since I've only actually fought ogres with high defense sacreds.

I wasn't thinking about the lower initiative, I guess that makes sense.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

For some reason your graphic preview has disappeared, Sombre.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.7 NEW
 

Free image hosting has a time limit I suppose.

It would be nice if shrapnel just gave us sensible png allowances, but I'm not holding my breath.