.com.unity Forums - Mara - EA game for newish players

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)

- Multiplayer and AARs (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=145)

- - Mara - EA game for newish players - full (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35469)

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

I can admin it while llamabeast is away. There may be someone designated as the admin for this game, but llama has given me the password for this one. In a pinch, I can do something for you, though I don't plan on being the permanent admin.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Its more of a make sure if everyone is ok with delaying over the holiday that it will be delayed.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

That sentence came out a bit scrambled, Warhammer. But i think I get what you're saying.

If you guys decide on something, I can implement the delay. But it's not 'my' game, so I'm not the 'Decider'.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Hello! I'm back, in fact. Now, this game I cocked up somehow and failed to ever sort out an admin (although LP accidentally got given the password - and thanks for still watching the thread LP). So, I would really really appreciate it if someone could volunteer to be the game admin, which would just mean doing things like postponing hostings when people ask and stuff. Volunteers? (please?)

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

I'd like to apologize to Caelum for putting the hurt on his troops with a dai oni. Um. I'm not sure how to apologize for that, but we didn't mean to. I wanted to see how my Dai Oni would measure up to the barbarian army, not your fliers.

In a word to C'tis:

Cancelling the NAP is not in your long-term interest, unless you have some very, very impressive military might indeed. I have no intention of invading or attacking you, but if you plan on war, please tell me- I hereby extend the offer to you of a gentleman's war. PM me for details.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Finally, the evil that was known as Shard of the First Mountain has finally been eradicated from the world...

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Lanka needs to be removed from the turn list. Not sure if that is done by mod or by the server automatically.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Hi all this is Oceania - I am fine with postponing over Labor Day weekend, I am also out of town and it will be a pain (though not impossible) to keep up. Cheers! ps. this has been a lot of fun so far, thanks all.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

By the way if sum1won (Yomi) needs a sub and an experienced player signs up, no problem for me. get whoever comes along to sub. But if someone objects, that's fine too.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

If we need a mod I guess I can do it.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Great, thanks Warhammer, I'll PM you the password.

Everyone else - Warhammer's the man to ask for postponements etc - although still do it by this thread so people can see what's going on.

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Since we have two players that will be out of town for the weekend, I will postpone the game.

Snacktime, when will you be leaving and when will you be getting back?

Re: Mara - EA game for newish players - recruiting

Hi - I leave Friday evening and get back Tuesday evening, EST. But if we want to make the postponement shorter, I will find a way to log in.

Thanks Warhammer.

I will postpone it tomorrow night and have the next turn run Wednesday morning.

So has Velusion taken over or is sum1won still playing?

I'm playing. I didn'[t get confirmation from enough players, and besides, I'm getting eliminated from some of the other games.

I...couldn't confirm. The idea of Yomi, in your currently very-strong position, in the hands of an experienced player...

I'm a coward. Sorry. : )

At least I couldn't bring myself to outright *refuse*! That's good, right? Right? ...

Quote:

IndyPendant said:
I...couldn't confirm. The idea of Yomi, in your currently very-strong position, in the hands of an experienced player...

I'm a coward. Sorry. : )

At least I couldn't bring myself to outright *refuse*! That's good, right? Right? ...

Its okay. Either way, my luck with my oni is not what I hoped it would be- I'm getting far too many fire mages, and not enough earth or death.

You guys should all get a note soon regarding the server for this weekend. I've set the turn run time for 120 hours, but left quick host on. That way we can still run turns until Snacktime or I can't get to a computer.

The nation of Yomi would like to remind its neighbors that any attacks will be repulsed with extreme prejudice, and massing armies on its borders is considered a hostile act. Furthermore, the nation of Yomi also possesses the capability to get some serious hurting on.

*fixed

The nation of yomi is requesting gem trades- pm for details, and state what you have available, please.

?

Do you mean the 'nation of Yomi'?

And I don't see any armies massing on your borders? (I do see some on my borders though)

Quote:

parcelt said:
?

Do you mean the 'nation of Yomi'?

And I don't see any armies massing on your borders? (I do see some on my borders though)

Yes.

Last turn, there were 100 some heavy infantry/chariots, with a consort of the dead on a border province. I consider that to be threat.

There were also around 300 caelumite troops, although they have since disappeared.

However, if Caelum has no objections, I will be keeping those troops there to patrol that area- something is causing diseases in that area, and I don't want it in my territory.

I just object to someone calling themselves the nation of Mara.

True. But I'm pretty sure those troops have been there for a while, and pretty stable too (unlike what just appeared across the border).

I guess it is a bit presumptious to call yourself nation of Mara, if it implies you think you won already? (not yet, neighbour, not yet, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) On the other hand, positive thinking is half the work, right?

I meant nation of yomi...

As for stability- the 60 soulless were already adjacent to your border. I merely moved them south to be across from your main army, along with their necromancers. As for the oni- they're about a dozen of them total, to support the undead. I was merely concerned by the slow buildup, and am withdrawing the majority of my forces this very turn.

Vote yomi, oh wait, this isn't Werewolf!

Hi everyone - I'm back from my trip, and would be pleased if we returned to the 30 hour schedule of before. Thanks for accommodating me over Labor Day.

Cheers! Oceania

Cool, I'll be reseting the server time in a few minutes.

or was it 24 hours? if so that's fine too. i'll get my turn in asap, sorry bout that.

I suppose this could devolve into a he-said-she-said sort of thing, but...

Tien-Chi and I still had a 3-turn NAP in effect when he attacked me without warning. Make of that whatever you will. : )

Eh. I just attacked C'tis, but we do not have an NAP in effect. And I was bored.

The vile nation of Yomi made the fatal mistake of initating agression against the C'tis empire. If he owes you any money, gems, or favours, we suggest you collect these asap. C'tis is a peaceful and honorable nation. However, such treacherous acts of agression cannot be left unpunished. Yomi will soon cease to exist.

FYI Caelum attacked me last turn as well. But we had no treaty, so fair enough.

I'm actually a bit relieved, it's been a weird, long period here without any fighting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Totally not treacherous at all.

We just want to give the lizards a hug. An icey hug of death from the grave, but a hug nonetheless.

I'd also like to remind the lizards of our agreement prior to war.

I'd like to request everyone to do a write up of this game afterwards. I think it would be interesting.

The nation of yomi sat in their corner. At one point the men and goblins had a war with the naked men to the south. There was great slaughter, until the demons of yomi joined the field, and waves of fire, darkness, and great spinny blades swept the naked men from the field, even as the naked men sought to strike back with slings and magic punches through space.

Then, they sat around as everyone else beat eachother up, and researched and recruited more demons. Recently, they declared war on the lizards too.

Sounds like a good idea (the write-up).

Yomi, that's a good start but don't bother, C'tis will be writing the rest of your history. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

We will honor the agreement you mentioned.

The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

Here, as promised, was the game, from my viewpoint.

First, my mistakes: poor pretender design, and not concentrating enough of research leaders. Taking Misfortune-3, so that regularly 1-3 provinces a *TURN* were rebelling in some way. (Never, ever, EVER taking Misfortune, EVER again!) Not site-searching early enough. Also, constant warring is *badt*; I had to put all my resources into troops, and not enough into leaders. Caused a snowball effect causing me to be *way* too far behind on research, despite being one of the largest nations for much of the game. --Which, btw, only painted a great big target on my forehead. Causing more wars. Vicious cycle. Too many castles built, and poor positioning for one of them. Trusting *anyone* to keep their word.

Second, the whining: I've decided that Caelum's army *SUCKS*. Elephants are good for early expansion, but are too easy to rout mid-to-late game. Caelum's infantry is laughably pathetic, and their archers are only passably good. Their extreme mobility helps, but hit-and-run tactics can only get you so far; eventually you have to face your opponent's army directly, and when you do you need *at least* a 2-to-1 superiority to even have a *chance* at winning. And even then you will often lose. Eagle Kings are powerful air mages, but at 400 a pop they're hard to mass, and since my research sucked this game...*shrug*.

--And my position! It didn't help that I was the *only* player who started in the middle of the map, with *every* player as a neighbour! And! With only four neighbouring provinces to my capital--one of which was a plains, and the other a 'blank' province. Compare that to, for example, Yomi's start, which was (if I got it right) in a corner of the map, with no less than six neighbouring provinces, *all* of which were mountains and/or forests. Arguably, only Oceania's was worse. Heh. Thanks, Llamabeast...*sigh*. My opponents were all tripping over themselves for the chance to take me out before anyone else did! Corner start for me next game, please.

/whine off

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

Now the game. As mentioned, I find myself starting in the middle of the map. Grand, I think: this will be a short and brutal game. I slowly build up an army to start expanding--and quickly discover I have done so *too* slowly; Marverni and Lanka both end up conquering provinces only two short hops away from my capital. Absolutely unacceptable, of course. I conquer the big, juicy Plains that Lanka took near my capital, and send a message to Marverni that essentially reads "I don't want an early war, but I can't allow you to be so close to my home province. My fault, for not expanding fast enough early game, so I offer you a trade: what would you like for these three provinces?"

Now, I'm expecting almost *anything* from "Screw you, they're mine" to "Fine, I want all the provinces south of the mountain range" to "Tithe me 100g for ten turns" to "1200 gold, up front, and they're yours" to "Join me in an early war with Yomi". Almost anything, in fact. Except what he actually did: "I think not", and conquering one of my own provinces--which was also one of my capital's neighbours, to boot!

*blink*

Well, at least we're clear. Early war it is. Time to get on the diplomacy bandwagon. I desperately scream "HELP!!!" at Yomi: "Join me in this war against Marverni, and I'll even let you take their capital!" (--This was a minor 'sacrifice' for me, btw; I've found I hate sieging castles, particularly early-game, and with size-3 Caelum. They tie up your armies for too long, and you need greatly superior numbers--something I wasn't likely to have for a long time.) Since there's no conceivable way I can survive a two-front war, I 'apologize' to Lanka, move out of 'his' Plains province I had just conquered, tell him he can take it back, and offer the standard 3-turn NAP, all the while thinking pleasepleasepleasedon'tkillme...: ) He agrees with some grumbling, and I secure 3-turn NAPs with C'tis, Tien-Chi, and Oceania. I offer the same to Hellheim, and instead he says he 'won't attack me for six turns, and reassess then'. Hrm. Interesting, that...

It turns out (I think, anyways) that Yomi was already in a war with Marverni when my message reached him. (And if that's true, then I cannot fathom what made Marverni think he could handle a two-front early-game war!) So he seemed more than happy to agree. I start gearing up for war (and thus getting even further behind in my research. *sigh*).

Over the next eight turns or so, I chase Marverni's smaller army all over my territories. Once we even exchanged places. (Let me take this moment to explain that I had misunderstood a fundamental rule of Dom3: I had somehow come to think that the order armies attack enemy provinces is determined randomly. So I should have had a 50-50 chance of attacking his army before it could attack another province of mine, right? After roughly six or seven turns of chasing him all over the map, I began to think I was--just possibly, mind you--wrong. A post on the main forums later, and I discover that indeed, I am wrong. *sigh* More wasted turns. Grand.)

At least my other mini-armies have been busily conquering his other territories--and gobbling up the gold mine of indie territories I discovered south of the mountain range! For some insane reason, Marverni and Hellheim--the only others with access to that area--hadn't moved into those territories yet. (Marverni at least had an excuse; he was busily trying to survive a two-front war he started. I can't understand what was going through Hellheim's head though!)

Meanwhile, Yomi keeps throwing armies at Marverni, and Marverni keeps destroying them. The two of them spend most of the entire war apparently fighting over the same single province, neither able to move beyond it. Right around the time I discover my army-movement mistake, Marverni makes a beeline with that smaller army right for his own capital--where another stronger army is just coming out and moving on my home capital. And all I've got nearby is a smaller indie-conquering army, and the army that had spent the last 8+ turns or so chasing him everywhere.

Hrm. Okay, *now* I'm a little nervous.

What can I do, what can I do? His merged armies will destroy mine. Hrm. Well, he's making a bee-line for my capital..and in order to do that he'll have to move through this provinces...that is three provinces away from my capital! Hmm!

I research Evocation like mad, build a bunch of flyers, and move two of my mini-armies into that province. Just before Marverni moves into it, I dump *FORTY* PD into that province, move my fliers there, all of my Eagle Kings (a whopping FOUR of them. *sigh*). Marverni steps confidently into my trap, and their army gets annihilated. Stomped on. Crushed. The only thing I failed to do was kill his pretender (awww...:)

And then in real life, I go away on a trip, send Llamabeast *three* messages (long story) asking him to delay the turn, announce it in the forums...and still stale out. Right when indie heroes random-event attack my *capital*, and besiege my home fortress. For two turns. And also allowing Marverni to recover a bit, starving TWO of my armies in low-supply provinces down south, etc. Grr...

Nevertheless, a few turns later, I'm by Marverni's capital, mopping him up. I make him another offer: I keep the territories I conquered, and we go to 3-turn-NAP status. Admittedly, the offer sucked for him, cuz I had taken most of his provinces--but it was his only chance of survival, allowing him to concentrate on Yomi exclusively. Beggars can't be choosers, after all. His response? "Ah, so you are growing afraid. I have crushed Yomi's army, and now I can concentrate on you!" And then Yomi sends me a message: "I think I can take him, but I need you to provide a distraction."

*blink*

At this point, over about twelve turns, I have kicked Marverni's butt from my capital all the way back to his. While he and Yomi fence back and forth accross essentially the same few territories. Yet I am apparently quaking in my boots at Marverni's vast might. And Yomi wants me to provide a 'distraction'. Uh huh. I honour my agreement with Yomi, and wait for him to conquer Marverni's capital. And wait. And wait.

And Hellheim attacks me.

--Hello, what?

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

At this point in the game, I've got the most territories by far--I think I owned over 50% more than the second guy. Which, I discovered, is *not* a good position for the guy in the middle of the map. And my research sucked; I might have been at the lowest in the game. My Dominion was only below average, at best. My gem income was piddling. Etc etc.

But I had the most provinces, and so the biggest target painted on my forehead. *sigh*

Tien-Chi and Oceania, for the last little while, had been busily two-teaming Lanka and gobbling up his territories. Something I wasn't unhappy about, since Lanka and I had the worst non-war relationship of all my neighbours (*cough* can't imagine why *cough*). I was also a bit nervous about C'tis, who was sitting pretty in a corner, and quietly never fighting anyone at all.

In all honesty, I wasn't surprised that Hellheim attacked me, cuz I was his only land neighbour. I was just surprised at the *timing*. My war with Marverni was just winding down, after all, allowing me to concentrate on him exclusively--and he was *much* smaller than me, on pretty much *all* the graphs. It was like a five-year-old challenging me to a wrestling match. I offer Hellheim a chance to withdraw his forces and resume a NAP (I don't *want* another war, dammit!!! : ) but he just tells me I should retreat north.

Yeah, right. *sigh*

Shift gears. Again. (Research? Vhat iss diss ting, 'research'?) Start moving my mini-armies down south, and use my fliers' mobility to gobble up a bunch of his provinces guerilla-style, hopping about everywhere like frogs on steroids. I notice he's had even *more* of a barbarian-uprising problem than I have--and then, finally, take a look at his scales. Good gods. Turmoil, Sloth, Death, Misfortune, and Drain. ALL at 3! Wow.

I start pressuring Yomi to take out Marverni once and for all, saying I'll have to do it if he doesn't just to close up that front. Finally, Yomi tells me he's got "one last thing" to try that "should do it". Next turn he slaughters Marverni's defenders. The turn after he takes the castle. Wow. Good tactic, whatever it was...: )

Eventually, I get a large army moving down to Hellheim's castle and besiege it. Then promptly get booted out by his army and sooper-dooper 600-point-buy-or-something SC Pretender. (And yes, contrary to forum posturing, I got my butt handed to me.) Nervous again. Hellheim starts moving north. Oceania and Yomi declare an end to our NAPs.

Oh, come on! Will I *ever* get a break?!?

At this point, I would probably have been ready to throw in the towel--except for C'tis. The puppet master. The evil vizier, hiding behind the king's curtain and whispering in everyone's ears. He had been my best, quietest neighbour--not even taking advantage of no less than THREE barbarian uprisings on our common border, and entering into a lucrative trade with me over a number of turns. He messages me to say that everyone's conspiring to attack me, but he wants to enter an alliance with me. Together we can take out our enemies one by one, and only then turn on each other. All I have to do, is attack Yomi first, and he will join in. Then, I 'only' fend off everyone else attacking me while we both attack Yomi, then the others one by one. --Oh, and that I give him a 'one-time gift' of 60 gems to help solidify the agreement.

Uh huh.

I'm more than a little skeptical of a 'plan' that has me being everyone's focus while C'tis cherry-picks foes and gobbles up provinces in relative safety--but I don't have many options by this point, his plan is plausible--and just might work. Certainly, without his help I'm going down. So I agree. And then start firing dozens of private messages, to every remaining player. Feeling like I'm tapdancing over a sea of spearpoints, desperately holding the slavering wolves at bay just beyond the firelight, I try my best to carrot-and-stick discourage Yomi and Oceania in particular from attacking me. I even get Oceania to renew our 3-turn NAP--only to have him break it again. And I eye C'tis suspiciously, noting that Oceania broke it shortly after I informed my 'ally', C'tis, that we had renewed it.

Hrm.

Meanwhile, back to Hellheim. I Hurricaned his home province no less than FOUR times. Then I did the exact same thing to Hellheim that I did to Marverni: I figured he would be making a bee-line for my home province--and if so he would then attack this province here, next. I move all (and I do mean, all) of my forces to that spot, ratchet up the PD to 50(!!), change my casters' spell selection to better handle undead, and gamble a small force on attacking the one province he controls neighbouring it--so that if he routs, all die. And I *still* lose. (Did I mention how much I *DESPISE* Caelum's laughably pathetic army units?!?)

--But! I killed all but about 15 of Hellheim's units, while retaining roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of my own army and most of my leaders. Hellheim's army was kaput, at least--although he still had his mega-powerful Pretender. I knew he couldn't continue to move forward, and I was about to move the remainder of my army into that province to try to wipe him out for good...when I stopped. And considered. And realized what *I* would do in his situation--which was sneak back through a province I control, under glamour, to his home province and turtle up. So I gambled. Instead of moving to attack, I set my army in that particular province to 'Patrol', increased its PD to 20, and moved the rest of my army to that province. And sure enough, I catch one of his three remaining leaders there, destroying the remainder of his army--and, as an added bonus, catch his pretender, and slay him as well! Hellheim was finally, finally out of the game; all I had to do was mop up the remaining pieces. And it only took nearly all of my military strength to do--

Oceania attacks.

*sigh*

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

I still haven't been able to research much at all. So I decide, this time, to change that. I basically rant and rave at Oceania a while, promising to drag him down with me if he attacks anwhere other than my southern territories, and apparently intimidate him enough to succeed in stopping his advance beyond those southern provinces--which have all been taxed at 200 for like 20 turns (hey, I didn't actually think I'd be *keeping* them that long! : ), causing 300+ unrest (that's how I did it, btw, Oceania...: ) Oceania doesn't declare an NAP or anything; he just...stops attacking me. Bad news is, he gets Hellheim's capital, and the final kill. Ah well...

And I begin to realize that I just have not been enjoying myself lately. I've been spending more time in Private Messages than actually playing the game, and I'm a builder at heart, not a warrior--yet all I've done this *entire game* is fight, fight, fight, and...oh, btw, fight.

Around this time, Tien-Chi begins sending me PMs asking if I'm okay, and if there's anything he can do to help. I guess he was nervous, watching my province-graph plummet. What he didn't understand was that a) I didn't want to fight anymore, and b) the only way I could avoid fighting was apparently to STOP HAVING THE MOST {CENSORED} PROVINCES! : ) Yomi ends our NAP, but says he isn't interested in attacking me; he just wants to jump on my corpse if it looks like I'm going down, without feeling guilty about breaking his word. --Oh, and could I be so good as to tell him if I'm going down, so he can snap up some of our neighbouring provinces, and not 200-tax them into oblivion?

*blink*

I...have to laugh. He's direct, I'll give him that!

So I make use of the break by building mages. Screw the army, I need to research, and I want to build, and I have only limited funds...so I'm building. Start producing Eagle Kings and Harab Seraphs. And...notice that the disease messages I have been getting are continuing. "This province loses xxx population to disease." Wait, what? I had assumed that was Hellheim! But Hellheim is dead! --Hrm. Then my *leaders* in my castles finally start to get diseased, not just random provinces. I go heavy on the patrols in my home castles.

And lo and behold, expose a Harvester of Sorrows in one of my castles--and owned by C'tis. That turn, he sends me a private message stating that the Harvester was on its way to Yomi, and sorry about that. Now, take a look at Mara; the Harvester was exposed in the Kingdom of Dhara (69). Notice anything strange about that province? Yep, it's not on the way to anything! When I call C'tis on that, he starts babbling about not knowing there was a castle there, cuz the Harvesters fly-3. And that he 'didn't know' they would cause diseases so fast; I guess by that, he was trying to say that he figured if he kept them moving, they wouldn't cause harm. Yuh huh. I threaten him out of my lands--and since he apparently didn't want a war with me at that time, he complies. I pretend to be 'mollified'--but I don't pretend well. I'm not mollified all that much, and I'm pretty sure he knows it.

So much for the 'alliance'.

And my 'fun' meter drops down another notch.

I'm realizing that my attempt at researching and building leaders is pretty much too little, too late. I don't have any real gem production, I'm too far behind on research, my army is the second-weakest in the game, and I'm spending half my time stomping rebellions. And yet...a strange lull sets in, for everyone. No one attacks anyone.

Yay! I can build!

C'tis tells me he's ended his NAP with Yomi, and he'll be attacking in three turns. Will I join him? *sigh* Yeah, I will...but since I no longer trust C'tis at all, I'll be waiting for him to attack Yomi, thenkyouverymuch. And...lo and behold, three turns pass, and C'tis doesn't attack Yomi! Oh, and look! Now that I've exposed C'tis, the "Diseased Province" messages I have been suffering for over a year have completely stopped! Shocker!

Meanwhile, Oceania is building more and more forces on our borders, and Tien-Chi is slowly coaxing me into a mutual, simultaneous strike against him. I agree, cuz Oceania is the biggest threat atm--but I'm made nervous by the fact that C'tis is *also* building on my borders. Both his Harvesters sit on our mutual border, there a ton of chariots in the middle province, and his castle has a huge number of summons. We have an 'alliance', but would he hesitate to break it if it would suit his needs? Yeah, right. Yomi has really given no indication he would attack me--but he also has huge armies on my borders, and he and I don't even have a working NAP!

For no particular reasons--nothing anyone has done, in particular--my 'fun' meter slowly ratchets down a bit more. I begin to think that maybe I'm just...getting burnt out.

I decide to try one last tactic. I've researched Evocation-7, Construction-6, and Alteration-7. Let's try boosting my Eagle King's air magic, getting a couple Staffs of Storms, casting Mist Warriors, and nuking everything with like 20 leaders and 80 Iron Crows. Meanwhile, my elephants will go underwater. We get it timed up, and I move into position, finally ready to coordinate with Tien-Chi. Tien-Chi mentions that he has been moving forces into a province that neighbours two of mine (alarm bells), positioning himself so that he can 'pretend' to be attacking me *alarm bells*, but we will attack at the same time *ALARM BELLS*.

And...I just don't care all that much, anymore.

Which is probably why I move my flier-army, but in rearranging my magic items, accidentally cancel my underwater-elephant army's move orders. Tien-Chi sends me a 'what-the-heck?' message, but I'm already too nervous about Oceania. They're going to attack me. So I tell him he can join in on my attack if he wants, or wait a turn while I prove that I will attack Oceania. Since C'tis *still* hasn't attacked Yomi, 8-10

And--despite the fact that I have *no* armies on his borders--the same turn my flier army destroys one of Oceania's, and move my elephants into position for an underwater strike--Tien-Chi takes two of my provinces. Yep, *my* provinces. Not Oceania's. Shocker. Again. Tien-Chi sends me a message along the lines of "you were taking too long, so I figured you weren't going after him, and attacked you instead". Yuh huh. Just another filthy liar. And, just to add icing to the cake, barbarians rebel that same turn. For like the 1293847123947th time this game. In one of my home castle's neighbouring provinces.

Still, there's a little good note in this--I now want to destroy Tien-Chi. C'tis might, just possibly, have *somehow* been telling the truth earlier. Tien-Chi's betrayal is unequivocal and total. A brief resurgence of interest in the game! I send a PM to Oceania telling the absolute truth--that I had attacked him preemptively cuz I knew that he would be attacking me soon if I did not. That I no longer *care* if I win or lose, so long as I get to take down Tien-Chi in the process. That I even would offer him to join me against Tien-Chi if he wants. Oceania says he's going to 'take a small bite' out of me first, then hop aboard. I warn him that I won't tolerate more than a truly small bite; if he wants some vengeance, that's understandable, but unless he wants

And, well...you all know what happens. Next turn, Oceania's 'small bite' is like 1/3 of my provinces. Tien-Chi destroys 1/3 of my armies, Oceania blasts the leader-army down to roughly 3/4 of its strength. C'tis moves his Harvesters back into my provinces. I am no longer a contender in the game. I could repel Oceania *or* Tien-Chi--but not both. I'm done. Kaput.

Thank. *GOD*.

These MP games have soured Dom3 for me, for a while at least. I'm just not good at MP games with strangers. Too much betrayal, backstabbing, and downright vicious evil. It's just...not my style of game. I'm going back to GalCiv2 for a while. : )

More power to you. Have fun, the lot of you.

However, one thing about this writeup: it's been both cathartic, and head-clearing. You know what? I'm not going A.I. yet. I'm not going to make it that easy for you.

Yomi, you've been the *only* one that's stuck to your guns and played completely fair. (Oceania, you came close, but...I just can't forgive that last landgrab. And I did make you a promise I intend to keep to the best of my rapidly-reducing abilities...: ) So this turn, I'm giving you everything I own. Go ahead and take my provinces; I'll fight to the death against the others, but let you have whatever you can conquer without a fight (including the castles). (Assuming you're interested, that is!)

I lean slightly in favour of Yomi's winning. Oceania is a close second--but I did promise I would do my best to take you down with me if you attacked, Oceania! Since I can't do it myself, I'll try to help Yomi do it. Keeping my word, and all that. But, best of luck you two. May the best player win.

I certainly have learned a *lot* from these two MP games. (Including the fact that I hate them. : )

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

The end. : )

Not sure if anyone's going to read all of that through (it's one *heckuva* long read!), but I enjoyed writing it regardless.

Have fun!

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

Ahem.... isn't the idea behind a write-up normally that you do it once the game is finished?? You know, so not to give away anything that could still be relevant to others?

Too bad you don't seem to have been enjoying the game though. I'd think with everything Caelum went through, and considering how well you've been doing despite difficult starting position, etc, you'd have had more fun?

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

Maybe I should have bolded the afterwards.

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

I don't think it gave away anything I didn't already know about. I've been aware of harvesters for some time- patrols went up as soon as a province of mine had the such and such people have died event.

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

It still would have been better if it hadn't been posted yet. I was thinking after the game. There are a few things in his posts that would be very different from my point of view.

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

I was not even thinking about any game-revealing strategies. Like I said, this was a catharsis for me, and I also wanted to at least try to explain why I was dropping out of the game. This *is* "afterwards" for me. : ) I suppose this is a bit more 'believable' than a he-said-she-said "We had an NAP!" "No we didn't!" type of thing.

On the other hand...I do find it interesting that the two biggest backstabbing liars in the game (at least, from my point of view) are also the ones objecting the loudest to my writeup being released 'early'. And your objection is based on moral grounds, no less!

Wow. Interesting sense of ethics, there. : )

I am eager to see this game from other viewpoints. I can't help but wonder how many other darkened-room dealings there were that I *wasn't* aware of...

Re: The game, from Caelum\'s viewpoint

Jeez, you really seem to hold a grudge easily. I mean, just a little accident with that harvester (whether you believe my explanations or not), and now I am a biggest backstabbing liar?? We also had some mutually beneficial dealings earlier in the game, IIRC?

Anyways, if that's how you want to take it. I should say that if little things like that, or discussions about NAPs and whether they're violated or not, etc, are such game-ruining experiences for you, you're better of not playing MP (as you mentioned yourself I think). Too bad, I thought it was a nice game.

The game from everyone's viewpoints are going to be dramatically different. I was hoping for a post-game from everyone because this has been such a great game, from my standpoint.

What has separated this game from the other Dominions MP games I have played has been the diplomatic aspect. Diplomacy has played a much larger role in this game than in any of the other games I have played (a whopping total of 2, one before, and one I started after this one). Anytime you have diplomacy in a game, you are going to have a he-said/she-said post-mortem. People view things in the context of their surroundings.

I'm going to have a fair sized post-mortem when all is said and done. I'm going to go turn by turn to do it, because things were nuts for a while.

If this game turned you off from MP Dominions, I would suggest trying another game. But, be forewarned any game that has as much diplomacy as this one did (my other Dom3 MP games you could hear a pin drop), is going to arouse passions.