Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

A small but worth mentioning thing would be incorporating at least one of the icons made for the S-300 SAM family in the standard game inventory. The SA-2 or whatever is used in its place does not do it justice.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Don't have all the posts read as there's too much stuff there, but having an individual "vision" rating for each weapon would be fantastic. Maybe it's hard/impossible to do... hopefully not.

As it's now, a unit that has TI equipment can fire all its weapons using the TI. As an example during night when Leo 2 gunner fire his L44 and MG3 using TIS, the loader will not fire his MG3 accurately into the darkness because he has no TIS in his weapon. And the gunner won't waste time and energy into "leading" the loaders fire into the target... Same with a recce section with a handheld Thermal Imager - using that the section can see in the dark - but not fire their weapons accurately, if they got image intensifiers on their rifles, as the TI is not a sight, just like a guy with binoculars is not a sniper.

Mainly because a unit has one TI rating for all weapons, it's now an über unit. Using the recce section as an example, having section visibility as 40 (TI) the unit can do its work, recon, even in the lowest visibilty. But the section's Assault Rifle has vision of 15 (II sight) which enables him to fire only 15 hexes. And as the M72 LAW has no night sight, it means the LAW cannot fire more than the vision setting currently (which can be less than LAW effective range).

Zip

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I'm 'fraid that with the way OOB files are set up and interpreted in the game it'd be very hard to do. Not to say it won't be a nice touch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

There is NO WAY you will see individual "vision" ratings for each weapon without tearing the entire game code apart and starting over.

IF we were to do that then all development of these games would cease, all support for the existing games would end and maybe in 5 years you would see another game but there wouldn't be anything "free" about it and it wouldn't really look anything like what we have now

We are at the stage of game development where many "ideas" on now to make the game "better" would mean tossing out hugh chunks of code and starting over. I can tell you this..... everytime we make a change to this code there are always knock off effects in areas we didn't expect partly because of the complexity of the code and partly because it has been cobbled together over 10+ years and it does things now people only dreamt about 10 years ago .

However, feel free to continue bringing up new ideas. Who knows...... one of them might actually be doable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

That's the idea of this thread, no? Give a million of apeas a typewriter and one may eventually write Hamlet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

To make possible addition of the sounds in WinSP.
But at game with "Full Security" there would be no prevention about broken ООВ.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

You might want to try explaining this again.

IF you modify OOB's in any way and play full security PBEM you will get a game failure.

IF you modify the sound files alone there will not be a game failure as long as the OOB's themselves are not modified

IF you are suggesting we allow sound mods to the OOB's that don't trip the PBEM security that is not possible.

Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

If to replace sounds in folder WinSP-> Game Data-> Sounds.

It will not be failure game at " Full Securiy "?

I guess, that the answer will be - YES.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Just a little excript from the US Army manual on Snipers: TO&E for standard 2 Man Sniper Team from FM 23-10 Sniper Training Manual

Sniper
1 M24 Sniper Rifle w/100 rounds
1 M9 9mm pistol w/45 rounds
8 Grenades (Urban Ops)
1 M18A1 Claymore Mine

Observer
1 M16A1/A2 + M203 with Scope W/ 210+ rounds of 5.56mm and 9 40mm GL rounds.
M9 9mm Pistol
8 Grenades (Urban Ops)

I recommend the following layout for a two man team:

W1 None
W2 Sniper Rifle
W3 M16 or M4
W4 M203 or Hand Grenades

I recommend the following layout for a three man team (Mentioned in the Battalion Field Manual FM 3-31-20):

W1 M16 or M4
W2 Sniper Rifle
W3 M203
W4 Claymore or Hand Grenades

Well thats all I really have to contribute on the subject. Let me know if you want the manuals for refrence and can't find them online.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

IF you change the sounds in the Game Date/Sounds folder it WILL NOT cause a failure in PBEM full security UNLESS you modify the OOB's.

OK ?

You can change the sounds that play in the game all you want and not have a secure PBEM failure unless you make changes to the game OOB's. I explained this in the last post on this subject. The sounds themselves are just WAV's and the game doesn't really care which sound you have in the sound folder. The security only cares about altered OOB's.



Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Concerning immobilized vehicles: I am aware of the quick-fix solution but the problem - besides the unrealistic time of recovery - is that AVREs and the like will also very likely get stuck in that hex, as the other tanks are stuck in there for a reason - if I imagine my ongoing PBEM... my opponent would wish for such an engineer vehicle, he's got about 15 tanks and IFVs stuck in stream and swamp hexes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif but I am quite sure he's get even more angry as the engineer tank would not make it out of the second mud hole,,, therefore I don't see a solution for this to be done (UNLESS you mod the engineer tank into a Heavy Helo class and give it cyrry capacity=255... + the approbriate SLOW speed... THEN it would be possible to recover anything without getting bogged down!! But this could also be abused easily,,,

Another issue:
I am not sure if this has been mentioned - but in MBT an SPWW2 it's often the case that already-won battles carry on endlessly because the enemy - esp. if it's in a PBEM - still has 1-2 squads left and is annoyingly hiding them and trying to recapture a V-Hex. I understand that there's this force-broken thing embedded already but IMHO this should be tweaked. Hunting down routed crews may be fun in a game or two but it's annoying and an enemy who holds one V-Hex out of 20 with a few men still has lost the battle and is should be over earlier - not so for the AI, though.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Charging into swamp, mud or stream hexes will get you immobilized in the game and in real life and if you do this in real life the nice boys from the tank recovery corp are not going to run out in the middle of a battle to pull you out and yes, I understand some players would like to have the ability to "recover" tanks but it's not going to happen. If you are REALLY worried about immobilizing your vehicles in one of those type of hexes STAY AWAY FROM THEM and if you just cannot resist entering one stop before you do and wait until the next turn to cross and then only one hex at a time to keep your speed down. OR if the resulting immobilizations still annoy you then turn "breakdowns" off in the preferences and you will be able to run through those hexes at any speed you want without fear of immobilizations. Engineering vehicles are not immune to terrain and must be handled with care as well

There are ample historical examples of tanks and engineering vehicles being immobilized in wet, muddy terrain. Read anything on the Battles conducted in the early part of 1945 rear the Rhine. I have read accounts of battles were virtually every Sherman, Flail and Kangaroo ended up stuck.

We had a "surrender" option in the code in the past so PBEM games could be ended when one side decided they had enough but we found people could use it to cheat and it was removed.
There will always be people who feel the games drag on too long and there will always be people who like the opportunity to try an fight their way to a lesser defeat in situations like that and there is no way to make both sides happy.

Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Don,

I get your point concerning the recovery of tanks, and it's quite clear that this cannot be represented in the game.

What people, including me, tend to forget, is the time span represented by one battle. Everyone who has ever seen a real-life heavy recovery operation will agree that it takes time to get a badly stuck tank out of there - even if you have the latest Bergepanzer Bueffel at the ready. Modern recovery tanks nowadays do have quick-recovery systems that enable them to hook up a disabled tank quickly, without anyone having to hop off, but this probably only works on a road but definitely not for the tanks stuck in swamps and creeks that we are facing in the game.

Has the issue of bridge-laying tanks ever been brought up? I guess this one will be impossible, too...


About the other thing: A surrender option would be nice, too bad it had to be deleted - but I was talking about those situations where a player SHOULD surrender but still carries on fighting with 3-men squads and crews --- is there any way to make the force status more transparent while playing? As fog of war prevents me from knwoing my enemy's status, that one should be left out, but having an idea about my own force's status would be great (morale-wise and so on - how close am I to a general rout?)

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

As one of the many people who have experimented with what can be done in this regard with the existing code, I would imagine that it would require whole new classes to be formed and many many lines of code to be written.

As it stands now it can be done...sort of. A bridge would have to be treated like a barge, and a AVLB as a barge carrier. The bridge has to be allowed to move, because while barges can unload onto shore hexes without actually moving onto them, the barge has to be on a shore hex to load. What this means is that even in a single hex of water, the barge has to be able to move one hex to complete the operation, as would a "bridge."

As it stands now pontoon bridge sections that can be used as barges in real life are about the farthest one can model accurately. Beyond that, what you'd essentially have is an armored barge carrier if you tried to model an AVLB, and you'd have to change the stock barge to a bridge, which would also screw with other routines.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

You mean like some of these:

http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008...ts-part-2.html

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

With regards to the mobile bridges, there is one already in the game! Its in the Israeli OOB. This is the Timsakh heavy amphibian, which is the same as the M2 mobile bridging ferry. In real life you have a group of them in a river connected by ramps so that vehicles can travel over them. In the game they have to be used as heavy amphibians which carry the equipment across a river.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

There is also a GSP ferry in the icon inventory if you want to make use of it.

http://www.galope.com/mike/eng1_info.htm

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Great, I just saw it as icon 3228. That would be good to see those lined up across a river. Thats what I love about the Steel Panthers series of games whether it is SPWAW or SPMBT/SPWWII, this game is limited to ones imagination. It is very versatile!!

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

To add ability to destroy a barbed wire bombardment of artillery.



To limit use no partroop infantry and others units in parachute landings.
For example, having increased death rate at landing.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

@paratroops, unless I'm mistaken, it already works that way.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I haven't studied the problem in detail but, from some WW1 sources I have read, it would appear that more often than not artillery would simply kick it around without opening a breach in it.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I think what Epoletov was suggesting was that it perhaps be more extreme.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I'd say it shouldn't - any marginally same commander would put his troops through atleast basic parachute course if he ever intended to drop 'em off an airplane - so if human player decides say in campaign "gee, in next battle I'm gonna drop these fresh conscripts behind enemy lines just for fun", IRL it'd include a period of training.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Yes, it so.




Still a question and the offer.

If the transport helicopter bears arms, unless it should not take less soldier inside?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I seem to recall a story about the Russians dropping guys in crates of straw into snowbanks during early WW II.
No clue if there's any truth to the story, probably not, but it is amuseing.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I think that it should represent whether or not a helicopter with weapons fitted A) has the necessary room to carry troops and B) the necessary lift capacity to carry them.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Good example of this is the H-19 Chickasaw used by the USMC between 1951-1962.
It was primarily a troop carrier (10 man capacity), but the armed version (2 X M1919 MG's and 2 pods of 2.75" rockets) couldn't carry any troops.
The engine just wasn't powerful enough to carry men and armament.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I understand that it is a lot of work for modification in WinSPMBT, but I offer this idea that transport helicopters with arms could take passengers less.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Do you have an example in game that's specifically bugging you? I can't think of an example of a helicopter in game that has an unreasonable carry capacity. Mi-24s can carry a small number of people in addition to a full armament load, as can the Mi-8/17. Helicopters such as armed H-34s or UH-1A/Bs could not.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Epoletov, you mean reducing the carry capacity or armed transport helicopters?
Like an Mi-8TVK (or whatever) with full complement of S-5 pods and Falanga missiles could take less troops than the basic Mi-8T?
Isn't that already the case? I know in my OOBs the armed Mi-8 has a carry of 124 against 132 or similar, but off the cuff I can't remember the official version.

If you're thinking that armed helicopters should not be able to carry significant troops, I'm of the opinion that if there is room, there should be the possibility to carry something. Even if it is not used in the game.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

PlasmaKrab
---------------
I agree with you.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

,,To limit use no partroop infantry and others units in parachute landings.
For example, having increased death rate at landing."

Why do we want to make Paratroops ungainly and thoroughly useless?

Isn't that a wee bit silly?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I guess he actually means that non paratroop infantry should have an increased death rate at landing and the machine translation mangled it.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

The helicopter has the limited carrying capacity.
Also I think if to take a maximum of the weapon then with a landing the helicopter will not fly up.
Here already there was an example such a case, it is described above.

=================================
Wished to tell, that infantry without preparation of parachute jumps, it was less often used thus.
They to themselves will break legs at landing!

Or to make it the greater penalty of morals at landing, it is terrible in fact to jump with a parachute for the first time moreover in rear of the enemy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

But that's just wrong I think, no at least barely sane commander of say Army or Front would allow some weenie Brigade or even less commender to jump totally unprepared troops in an operation. Even non-paratroop units would get at least very basic parachute course (legs together, bent, if parachute doesn't open, quick prayer) if anyone would want to drop them and have them at least basically combat worthy.
Sure, they'd have higher casaulty rate on landing - just as they have it in reality - but even the German ad-hoc paratrooper unit used in Ardennes under von der Heydte suffered losses primarily due to pilot's inexperience and dispersion than due to inexperience of many "ersatz" paratroopers.
You have to always look on "the greater scheme of things" when planning a SP battle - "booking" airborne assault wasn't something Brigade commander can do at a whim, this means that he'd have to have planes and troops granted by his commanders and that in the time the operation is being prepared the troops intended for the op would receive at least minimal parachute training.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Ah, now I understand. For African countries and other 3rd World affairs, in MBT, if they actually have Paratroops (not sure they have enough cash for that) that might very well make sense.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

To shoot usual rounds pressing button " Z " probably through a smoke (no LOS).
And here to shoot smoke rounds also it is impossible, and it is a pity!

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I know we are both fighting language barrier but these translations do not help much

Try again. What exactly is it you are complaining about ?

It appears you are complaining that it is impossible to "Z" fire through smoke (no LOS)or fire smoke rounds through smoke (no LOS) using the "X" key yet I have no problem doing one or the other so either I've totally misunderstood the complaint or you're doing something wrong.



Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Excuse for my English! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Penguin.gif

It is impossible to shoot smoke rounds (button "X") through smoke (no LOS).
At the same time bullets and HE, AP round fly through a smoke when we press on button " Z ".

Also it is possible also smoke round to shoot even if it is not visible where, (at random, not precisely).

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I just tried it, and it is entirely possible to shoot smoke rounds through the smoke using X key. I don't see, where you experience problem. The ONLY problem I can see, is that when you use Z key for normal indirect fire, you see mouse pointer changed to crosshairs, if you are able to fire indirectly at that hex. But when you use X key, to fire smoke, your mouse pointer change to crosshairs only on the terrain, that is in your LOS. That however does not mean, that firing is impossible. Just try to click on the spot, that you can fire with Z key, and you will see, that you can use X key as well.

Hope that helps.
badger45

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Perfectly, you have well told all.
I did not know about it.

But has remained one cosmetic defect.
It is necessary to make, that the marker (a cross in a circle) appeared at use of button " X " also as well as at use of button " Z. ".

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

While nobody knows how much of the program is going to survive intact the U.S. Army's Future Combat Systems vehicles would be nice to have in WinSPMBT. I believe somebody posted a list of the manned vehicles earlier.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I would wait before having the team spending time and effort on a program which has the guillotine hanging upon it while there is so much else to fix. Until units are actually issued with them I would not bother.
And if you go down the "what if" route there must be a zillion of MBT-70, Sgt York, Cheyenne etc developed in the last 50 years. The whole US OOB probably would not be enough to contain them all.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I suppose. I don't know if the team should wait until 2015 or whenever units are supposed to start getting those vehicles however. Perhaps they should just wait until there are some real pre-production vehicles.

A few other additions to the U.S. Army OOB would be nice. The M109A6 PIM is the biggest one I can think of. The Army has been considering a few Bradley upgrades too. Plus a M1A3 is rumored to be in the works.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

There is an idea !
As WinSP allows to do fights with participation of several battalions from each party, I suggest to make possible purchase Batalion HQ (Headquarters).

Its feature - it can do Rally for subordinates Company of commanders and further Platoon commanders.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

To increase cost VH even up to 999, now 250 points.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Hi all. Just to introduce myself, I've been playing (and enjoying) SP for awhile now, more WW2, but MBT as well. Thank you all involved in the development of the games.

I have a few comments/question about possible features to the game:

1. Engineer tanks/bulldozers - could it be made for these to be able to push destroyed vehicles from one hex to the next one? Many times a vehicle or a number of them get destroyed and block a road, for example. I've been reading here about limited time of the battle, but I don't mean this as a recovery operation, but rather as a real battle situation. So, for example, one tank gets destroyed, blocks a road, but behind him there is a dozer tank who just moves him over to the side. I believe even in real life this would take a short time to do.

2. Bridge layers - I've seen there was some talk about it, but haven't seen any conclusion. I have had many missions played in the terrain crossed with small streams (one hex) which can get your vehicle immobilized (unless you go over -1 fords; there are just few of these all over the length of the stream). It would be great if somehow bridge could be erected over these short spans.

3. Tank transport - what's the use for these? I've never used them in a game. Is it possible to transport an immobilized tank this way?

Just as a general comment, I prefer playing with breakdowns on, it's much more realistic, but I would enjoy it even more if the things mentioned above could be incorporated into the game. Once again, thanks to everyone developing this wonderful game.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

"1. Engineer tanks/bulldozers - could it be made for these to be able to push destroyed vehicles from one hex to the next one? Many times a vehicle or a number of them get destroyed and block a road, for example. I've been reading here about limited time of the battle, but I don't mean this as a recovery operation, but rather as a real battle situation. So, for example, one tank gets destroyed, blocks a road, but behind him there is a dozer tank who just moves him over to the side. I believe even in real life this would take a short time to do."

You can, if you want, give an engineer tank enough carry capacity
to load another tank. Any other way to implement this would be impossible or too difficult to be worth it.

"2. Bridge layers - I've seen there was some talk about it, but haven't seen any conclusion. I have had many missions played in the terrain crossed with small streams (one hex) which can get your vehicle immobilized (unless you go over -1 fords; there are just few of these all over the length of the stream). It would be great if somehow bridge could be erected over these short spans."

This has been discussed for years, even before these forums were created.Same answer as above.

"3. Tank transport - what's the use for these? I've never used them in a game. Is it possible to transport an immobilized tank this way?"

IIRC yes. What's the use for these? Well they exist in real life, so why not?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

You can transport the tank with crew inside.
I remember, what disappointment when the empty tank could not be taken away from a battlefield by this machine was. :re:

Well to correct this lack.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Yeah, I understand that, but the thing with carry capacity wouldn't be possible for destroyed tanks, right? And I guess any other way would be too difficult... Too bad. Thanks for the answers.