Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Stout: No of course not. It just means you ran out of candles. I'd be very surprised if it was due to anyone deliberately trying to extinguish you. However, the underlying point of the game is to maintain and spread your dominion. If you don't notice that your dominion is fizzling out and start preaching etc then you can lose the game. It does seem very harsh, but you have to remember that the whole point of the armies and magic are to give you the power to expand your dominion.

Even experienced players occasionally lose the game by not noticing that their candles are diminishing though.

Edit: Oh, Darkstone beat me to it, and very did so with great clarity too.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Sorry aapeli, I offered you peace when we first met in the mountains. As you didn't answered my first message I supposed you weren't interested.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

that is harsh Stout. ouch!!!

this brings up an interesting point. Is there now an indie province with a fortress?

and it is a benefit for a neighbor of stout, someone gets a ~30k population province pretty easy. What a boost!!!

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Stout, I hope you won't be discouraged.
There seem to be plenty of new games starting every month, and I'm sure if asked llamabeast can PM you when he starts a new game.

Omnirizon, yes, it's an unbalancing factor certainly, but there is plenty of luck involved in the game as is (where you start, what magic sites you find, MR rolls, etc.) I like to think of playing this game as 'controlled chaos'.

Anyway, that reminds me of something, and I hope nobody finds the following joke in poor taste, and if anyone is offended, I apologize.

Fortress (1000 gold) - (not bad)
30k province (300 gold income a turn) - (quite good)
Double gem income - (even better)
...
Expanding unmolested - priceless

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

No I dont mind dont worry. Its actually quite interesting to play in such a small area (I have now three neighbours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif).

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Stout,

One thing I recently figured out is that high dominion on your pretender gives the awe effect. This can be a nice addition to a fighting pretender and also increases your dominion power generally. This helps to prevent the dominion kill that you suffered.

While I don’t think anyone was aiming at you, I don’t doubt they designed their pretenders with the possibility in mind. If you go back to your last turn and check out the graphs, you will see some nations have a lot of dominion and others don’t. At this stage of the game, that is largely about pretender design. People have not had time to build many temples or sacrifice too many slaves. If you had died from this at turn 50, they might have done it deliberately to you. At turn 7, they just got lucky.

If you check Ermor, one of the purple lines, you will see that I have a lot of dominion, even though I missed my first two turns. The spread is automatic and can be powerful. In my case, I mixed up late age ermor with middle age ermor and the dominion is not going to be as useful as I thought, but I should be safe from dominion kill. The others are going to have to get me some other way… I have no doubt they will try. A friendly newbie game does not imply friendly tactics!

As the others have said, this is a deep game with a lot of factors in play. I recommend a few games of single player to start out with, as MP is highly competitive and harder. This is my first MP game and what I see in the graphs and hall of fame compared to my SP games is remarkable. Folks really know how to play and make the AI look silly.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I do not understand the llamabeast system, right now it is waiting for Caelum (that should be AI, isn't it?) and Vanheim (that seems to be vanquished). How does this work?

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

It's because Caelum has not been set to AI yet (though he will be shortly), and also because somewhat bizarrely once a player's defeated they have to take another turn, even though they can't do anything. Presumably Vanheim will stale, and then next turn he won't be on the list.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Thanks!
So that means that after Caelum is set to AI or a sub is found we will have to wait still 18:00 until the system runs it or can it be set to run at that moment? Everytime a new naton is vanquished this happens isn't it?
BTW this llamaserver is incredible, specially the quickhost feature is quite interesting as the turns are flying quite fast.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Yeah, although the admin can always intervene if he wants by forcing hosting (to do that you just postpone the hosting by a negative amount of time to bring the hosting time forward Omnirizon). In this case, being as I'm sitting here, I'll do it.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Dead? I am not dead, nor am I happy. For the harp lies idle by my feet when I see what you do to my former empire. You praise death as natural, as unity, as if it was death you gave. But you are sorly mistaken.

I cannot stay silent by the sound of such hypocrisy. There cannot be death without life, nor can there be life without death. But you, you want to take them both away and give nothing back. You steal from the people their precious death, their final sleep. Oh, how much worse than taking lives!

Your realm is neither life nor death, but emptyness and dust. And by this dull and witless path you wish to lead my people?

I, who was dead and reborn by the power of love. Not undead, mind you, but reborn! I see the mutual dependance of life and death and cherish it, sing my praise to it! As all the good things in this world are born of this duality.

You speak of human egocentricity. May I ask you then: Do the birds sing happily in your lands? Do the trees grow strong and green in your forests?

Nero

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Just noticed one of the water provinces (Black Water) has barbarians in it......wonder if I can recruit them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

LOL. barbarians in water? how unusual.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

It's probably a terrain mistake on the map. Is that the one in the northwest corner? I thought that was fixed.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

No it isn´t that one, but that is one ain´t fixed either.

I just took it, it was full of tribal horsemen.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Tien-chi resents Ulmish aggression killing innocent Empire citizens and demands satisfactory punishment of those responsible for slaughter. If not, imperial raiding force will do justice that our citizens are eager for!

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Satisfactory punishment you say? I am glad you asked for it.

Well, hopefully we have just captured the fearsome general Dong-yue Da-di, prophet of Golden Eye, god of Tien-Chi.

This man, known for his legendary cruelty was fleeing from a raid on our farms that went bad when our patrolling forces came up.

He was then brought to the Black Keep of Ulm to allow our experimented torturers to learn the truth.

He admitted he has received orders to raid and pillage Ulmic provinces.

He confessed the slaughter of many innocent peasants as he and his men burnt their houses, raped their wives, mutilated their children and took their gold.

He even forced enlistment of some young barbarians who were obliged to charge in front of his raiders in order to distract our archers, threatened by his own archers.

In the end, he recognised to worship a false god in heretic black sabbath and awful blood baths.

Finally he was condemned for his deeds and received the satisfactory punishment you asked.

This morning, he publicly repented his awful crimes and asked for mercy. He was then beheaded and quartered in front of a crowd of spectators in the courtyard of the Black Keep.

I regret you weren't there to attend to this rightful judgement but I hope your fellow citizens will rejoyce for the disappearance of such a monster.

His mutilated head must reach you soon.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

In honor of the new year, the enigmatic Oracles of Agartha share their wisdom and foresight with all:

The greater army put to flight in disorder,
Scarcely further shall it be pursued:
Army reassembled and the legion reduced,
Then it shall be chased out and not rescued.

We predict dark days ahead.
The Age of Peace has ended.
The Age of Chaos has begun.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

The age of lizards is over for sure. With just my capitol left our mighty god wishes to support us no longer. The lizards have also lost the support of their overlord Aapeli as he is going to a cruise today and wont be back till thursday (I shall set myself to Ai).

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

The Deep Ones of R'lyeh will gladly help T'ien Chi punish the Ulmish Barbarians for their warmongering ways.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Is there a way to get back from AI?

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Yup rules state once computer has taken control of a player position it cannot be reversed.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Karlem,

I told you to stay on the other side of the river. But would you listen? Noooo! Clearly, it was for your own safety, but too late now. At least you can call your pretender back, sorry about the prophet...

Everyone else,

Please be careful crossing the river.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Meister Miagi (Ryleh):

Attached is the file with the screenshot of our NAP 3 Turns. I have not received any warning from your attack.You have broken our NAP wihtout prior declaration of war!

Remove your troops from my lands and then wait the 3 turns NAP or everybody will know that you are a treacher and nobody will make a NAP with you, ever.

Karlem

Ps.- Saxon, if you want we can have peace, I will not move towards the southern river and you can recover those provinces, ok?. Seems that Ryleh breaks its NAPs freely and you are an interesting enemy but they are a hated one.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I am confused, I believed NAP's in this game are serious business.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Me too Darkstone, me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif but this turn Ryleh has attacked me again.... XD

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

As far as I know a NAP 3 turns means that you have to say 3 turns in advance that you are going to break it, isn't it?

This is the wonderful message that I have received from Ryleh:

"I am sorry but our 3 turns NAP has expired and my forces need a place to expand after Ulm has pushed me out"

Perhaps Ryelh or me is misunderstanding what a NAP 3 turns means... could anyone more experienced clarify what a 3 turn NAP means?

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

It means that you have to give 3 turns notice before hostilities commence....but then again some people might not have ever played a game with a NAP so I can see where there might be some confusion. Usually once you set a NAP in any game I have ever played you dont attack out of the blue--unless of course you dont care about consequences.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I guess klagrok is correct in that this is a newbie mistake. I probably could have made it myself since this is my first MP game and have never heard of this NAP praxis.

This being a newbie game, it is probably best to assume no one knows anything about MP customs when making agreements.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Well, but if you do not know what a NAP 3 turns means normal thing is to read or ask about it, not to propose something that you do not know (read the atachment HE proposed it to me!).

I can accept that it is a newbie "mistake" and not make a fuse and publically state that Miagi is a treacher but I want a compensation for that mistake otherwise now that is clear that it is a "mistake" if the person does not undo it... well it's obvious that it is not a mistake but something done on purpose.

So Ryleh, what are you? A treacher that breaks NAPs or a newbie that made a mistake and is going to retreat and after retreating completely of my lands take 3 turns and then attack? It is up to you.

Ps.- If you pillage and 200% tax the lands i will assume also that you are a treacher also taking benefits that should not come from such a "mistake".

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

He proposed it? Well then he should know what it means.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

May the world know the word of Heinrich Kruger, Prince of Metals, wise ruler of Ulm:

Let me tell you the story of the beautiful Bixia Nuanjin, Imperial Consort of Tien Chi, who managed to infiltrate the mighty Keep of Ulm.

Bixia Nuanjin was working daily in the kitchen of the Keep, serving garrison as well as nobles smiths and commanders.

But she was known for her nightly activities. Rumours were spreading in the Keep of her numerous lovers fighting each other to get her favours.

She was finally caught by a jealous lover who found her stealing parchments in my laboratory.

She was tortured and convinced as a spy of Tien Chi.

Then she was brought to the pillory, had her hairs shaved and turned all over the town allowing our fellow citizens to give her the punishment she deserved.

She was finally beheaded and quartered, as this is the fate for those of her kind.

May his death be a lesson to whoever tries to spy our lands.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I thought our agreement was no to attack each other for 3 Turns, that's why I wrote in my proposal that we could negotiate further agreements after three turns. I am sorry, I didn't know a NAP meant you had to give three turns notice. Someone else in this offered me a 10 Turn NAP, which I accepted thinking we would have 10 Turns of peace.
I dind't raise the tax to 200 or pillage and I will retreat my forces immediately.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Thanks Meister Miagi, I understand that this is then a misunderstanding and that you are an honorable person. After you retreat we will give us 3 turns and then we will begin, ok?
NAP X means that you give X turns of pre alert before attacking (see klagrok post).

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

*sigh* And there is another one troubleguy.

"I agree to 20 turns of peace between us, and of course a NAP3. Let us slaughter all the pretenders of the world, before we turn to each other. I think we should have a strong working relationship, perhaps gem or magic item trades."

It was on turn 4 from monkeys, also we agreed on splitting territories. Because I was little occupied monkey took territories that we agreed will be mine and recently declared war before 20 turns are over. I mean, NOW is turn 20 of game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So, another player who thinks that diplomacy is only for his own benefits and that he should not stick to his words.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Was it turn 4? We thought it was turn 2.

But stop quibbling, we sent you a message in honor of the NAP3. We sent the message when we did so the war would start as the peace treaty expired.

At any rate, we didn't attack you as you warred with Ulm, even though that would have been the perfect oppurtunity. We must march on you now only because Nero, of Pythium, is moving in. It would be terribly imprudent of us to allow them to engulf your empire, while we sat happily by.

The monkey kings, in their infinite wisdom, offered your crumbling empire the chance to lay down your arms and join us, to live side by side with the monkey people, under the light of the magnificent Pihmago. But you stubbornly refuse. But Pihmago is a just god, and we still revere the honorable, but decaying empire of Tien Chi. Pihmago will reincarnate your fallen as donkeys in their next life, for your stubborness in this one.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Breaking NAP is not nice. However, it is possible. Many not nice things are possible. For example, you all question my position as the one true god. However, that is a different topic.

May I suggest that, if you make a treaty, make it very clear. Misunderstandings are not needed. Betrayal will happen, but don’t do it by accident! If it happens it is not illegal, it is just not nice. But then again, we are playing a game where we are trying to kill each other, which isn't actually that nice a goal... In any case, try to find ways of building trust in your partners, so you both are comfortable.

This is a newbie game and we are all learning. If we are not, we are either not newbies or not very bright.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

There is also a difference between outright treachery and acting on 'Blood in the Water'.

We can be honorable sharks in this game, but in the end we are all sharks. If someone is dying, you don't honorably stand by and let your future enemies feast on the remains.

Peace treaties and NAPs allow us to feel relatively secure with our neighbors, enough so that we can focus our energies else where. We all make them because it is strategically beneficial. If only one person was forging treaties with their neighbors, that person would win as everyone fought amongst themselves indiscriminately. Treaties also provide security on a border from other players, as you know the party you signed with is going to prevent another player from walking over and attacking you. But really the only thing holding any given treaty in place is the fact that your neighbor is roughly equal in strength to you, and both of you would suffer from war (aka: mutually assured destruction, MAD; it is how the real world works too).

When these elements have disappeared from the treaty, how much of a treaty really is it? Tien Chi is crumbling, weakened from war with Ulm, now Pythium moving in to take advantage of it. What happens to my treaty then? Is Pythium going to honor that? Do I just let them take over all the lands from this dying nation, and then forge a treaty with them as if nothing has changed?

Just being realistic

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Nero marches only because he wishes to play his opera at the royal theater of Tien chi. The guards of Tien chi did not allow passage and thus we must invade.

The yellowskins will rejoice as Nero brings passion and poetry into their lifes.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

As is typical of the west, you assume your eastern neighbors are barbarians, Nero.

Tien Chi and Bandar Log are ancient empires with deep culture. The spirituality of Bandar Log even includes edicts on the romantic relationships of the monkey people, going so far as to offer advice on performing pleasing copulation. We will have a treatise written by one of our revered Vanarian philosophers, Vatsayana, delivered to your castle; if you have been reincarnated with passions beyond poetry, you will the text interesting.

The thinkers of Tien Chi have produced philosophy on filial piety, social welfare, diplomacy, and warfare. Their recent diplomatic maneuvers to smear the honorable image of Bandar Log is typical of their subtle skills.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I did not claim they were barbarians. Not at all. The depth of Tien chi culture is the very reason I wish to set up my play there. But as they would not grant me passage I chose to invade.

I thank you for the treatise, I have heard of Bandar philosophy and have been longing to read it.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

The Bandar Log can appreciate your dramaturgical sensibilities, Nero. Art is indeed power.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Work are sending me off to Germany today until Saturday.

I have Dom3 on my work PC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif so I hope I will be able to carry on making my turns. As long as I can receive the turns. My hotmail account is blocked at work usually so I will have to try and get the turns to my work account somehow. I will also be able to comunicate with people - but only by pm via this site.

I will only have a couple of short windows to play the game each day.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I can play turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Arco is saved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif For now....

Long live the Elephants!

And by Elephants I mean Arcoscephale Elephants. Not Caelums substandard hairy Elephants or Bandar Logs so called Elephants which are probably just a bunch of Gorillas monkeying around under a large grey blanket....

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

what a glorious battle. GLORIOUS!!!

wouldn't you agree Tien Chi?

at the smelter of war the mighty Bandar forge destiny, and quench the glowing blade in the blood of the fallen.

The mighty Bandar, outnumbered almost four to one, stood steady on the field of battle. The brave Markata, chattering with lust for battle, ran before the towering war elephants, drawing the first volley's of enemy fire. The battlemages of Tien Chi unleased fierce bolts of magma, raining fire upon the stout Bandar. Their Red Guard charged our flanks, where the Royal Bandar Swordsmen held them back with steel and strength. The wise and mystic Bandar Rikshi unleashed powerful magics, draining the strength from our enemies, and replenishing our own. Our war elephants ravaged through the ranks of our enemy, trampling all underfoot as the charged for the backline. Our Royal Guard, their fur matted with blood, valiantly defended our own rear from the charging Red Guard.

In the end, of Tien Chi's 200 troops, a mere 40 escaped the wrath of Bandar Log, who stood outnumbered almost four to one. But their might and valor knows no bounds, and they emerged victorious!

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

I´m going away saturday, would you be okay with postoning eventual hosting during saturday to sunday afternoon?

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

no prob at all. send me a PM to remind me before you leave.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

Great! I will try and make the delay as short as possible.

Re: Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)
 

the turns are taking awhile because I delayed the quickhost for extra 24 hours for ermor and oceana, then the following quickhost will also be delayed to a 48 interval to allow pythium time to return.